Combat Medic Archive
Thread: My thoughts on CM's at the moment.
Alright, being a Master Combat Medic I thought I would throw a few thoughts out there that might not've connected for a few others.
Let me start right off by saying that - I think Combat Medics are a great, very useful, highly playable class. I also think the line-of-sight change was badly needed and definitly an improvement to the overall game balance. So far, I'm very happy with how my combat medic performs.
yes, the range for poisons will be shorter than most any other weapon. Yes, that will certainly limit its effectiveness. However, please keep in mind the fact that changes are going in regarding movement and defense that affect us greatly. Namely - hitting a moving target will be harder, and hitting a target while moving will be harder still. This is very significant as our damage can be applied on the run - and then keep running.
In addition, combat medics have a fantastic line of ranged heals and area heals - making it a very useful class to have around in almost any situation. In addition, we can target all three HAM pools, and wipe out entire groups of badguys with the area poisons. Lots of really amazingly powerful things about a CM.
Just my two cents,
C
u forget one thing...
Pvp will become static...because there will be no way to break down defensive positions...
so expect the pace of pvp to slow down a lot...especially in defensive situations...
i see long mexican stand offs in the star port...
untakable factional bases in the future
without anything that is usable non-LOS defensive positions with cover become untakable...
Cutter, have you ever used an AE DoT within LoS?
probably not.
let me tell you in terms of game mechanics what happens:
- everyone who does not have a current target,gets you as target
- everyone not currently in combat with someone else gets into combat mode with you and starts firing
- every pet of whatever kind that is not in combat will automaticly start fighting you
now for a group of 3 people that might not be an issue, if you throw an AoE at a group with 3-4 pets, not to mention a group with an ATST that means instant incap.
and if you survive the first retaliation salve, the next shot from every person in that group will be a special, fired exactly 1 second later and it will connect, because1 sec is not enough for the server to see you out of line of sight for them to fire at you, even though you might have already gotten behind a building.
let me explain the issues that you think are solved with LoS:
- poisoning people inside starports
- poisoning people inside cantinas
- poisoning people out of private structures
now you see, all those 3 have something in comon, they are buildings. poisoning someone out of a private sturcture definatly is an exploit. but poisoning people inside cantinas and starports is a problem with the design of them, making it complicated to move out of them fast. there are several different attempts at solving those this including checks to require people to be in the same building, reduced damage when not in LoS a.s.o. but these are actualy not LoS issues but design issues. FYI, a pet warps now directly to you if you move out of LoS. no cover. and no defensive skills in the CM tree to survive that retaliation that takes place in the 20-50 seconds while your Master-level Poison tries to incap someone, that can probably heal himself so it is probably mind poison which can be dealt by about every other combat profession with a DPS way higher than our poisons.
so you are having fun. fine.
i am missing comunication here big time. but i am used to this since beta. it just pisses me off a bit more each day.
I am not Cutter but I use AOE DoT with LOS all the time. Even in the latest bash-Sekir thread I threw poison at person who was in LOS
- always throw poison on pet, it does not put owner into fire-at-me mode
- throw action poison first, see how many shots person will take at you and give doc something to do before you throw mind poison at him
- Use good poisons, 200 a tick is TOO LOW!!!
- 50% of the time I am throwing poison at people lying on the ground from groupmates Crowd Control. Group == fun.
- strife from behind the wall - you will get LOS , your opponents will not (tested yesterday, does not work in lag)
And finally: don't throw poison at groups with AT-ST, what did Empire ever do to you ?!? Obey the laws and you will be rewarded, crush whiney rebels to oblivion!!
-Yes, I have used poisons with LoS. All the time, actualy. I never threw them without it, because it always seemed both unfair - and something that would likely go away very quickly.
-I also don't think that PvP will become static, with those behind cover being impenetrable - since people staying behind cover (and hence, stationary) is exactly what all the melee classes have been hoping for all along. I think this will help round out lots of different rolls for other combat classes.
Lets be honest, without the LoS on poisons Combat Medics were way, way too powerful. Able to deal massive amounts of un-healable damage to entire *groups* of people without any fear of retaliation (save from another combat medic.) Faction bases can actualy be strongholds now, not a giant AE Mind Poison target waiting to happen.
-C
right, faction bases can be actual playgrounds for pets now, because nothing else will be sent in for a long time.
and michael, on my server, with advanced subs (the 2 that work) AE poison can not be made muchbetter than EE100 or you are loosing out on the potency and even with 80P you still get about 3/4 resists per AE.
and that thread definatly was not a bash Michael thread ,)
My current AOE poison (all basic components, no doc experementation) http://mfs.no-ip.com/swg/screenShot0070.jpg
Has following stats:
158eff (~300 per tick in PvP)
82potency (very satisfying, I usually have 1 out of 10 people resisted)
Now admitedly I am too lazy to go and check resource avaialbility on Gorath myself, however according to http://www.swgcenter.com/resource_change.asp you currently have 939 Tatooine Fiberplast (comparing to 956 I used) , 828 Arginum Aluminium (comparing to 924). Also there are several very high quality Petrochems, so I don't see how you are geting such low stats on your components.
Can you post exact stats on subcomponents and resources you used to make finished product ?
Can it be that you are not experimenting enough to get best possible schematic for subcomponents ? (I usually do 2-3 tries to make sure I have amasing success rate) ?
Can it be that there is something wrong in game design and different servers result in different packs ?
Are you crafting each pack individually or using factory ?
Is it possible that there is a bug with factory-made components ?
I would really like to know definitive answer to the question about good packs only working on several servers, is it our luck, or may be you are doing something differently.
Cutter10 wrote:
Lets be honest, without the LoS on poisons Combat Medics were way, way too powerful. Able to deal massive amounts of un-healable damage to entire *groups* of people without any fear of retaliation (save from another combat medic.) Faction bases can actualy be strongholds now, not a giant AE Mind Poison target waiting to happen.
-C
So instead of nerfing us, why don't they just do what people have been asking/demanding for since launch?
A way to heal Mind pools..
How friggan dumb is that to have 3 'hit point' pools but only make 2 healable..
Gee, I just *wonder* which one people will go after?!
Caliwyrm wrote:
So instead of nerfing us, why don't they just do what people have been asking/demanding for since launch?
A way to heal Mind pools..
How friggan dumb is that to have 3 'hit point' pools but only make 2 healable..
Gee, I just *wonder* which one people will go after?!
I disagree. Early on, I also thought it was silly to have mind-damage that couldnt be healed by medics. But I'm begining to see where the designers are going with it:
Mind damage counters the healing in combat. Riflemen pay very dearly for the ability to hit the mind pool, being very impotent close-range fighters. Bounty-Hunters pay more spec points than even CMs do - and should be the equivalent of Combat Gods. Then there's us - we can also hit the mind pool, but its a counterable, DoT hit that you need LoS, and a lot of time and effort gathering/making the thing. I *really* dont see how we get the short end of the stick here.
-C
You don't see how we got the short end of the stick?
Our ability to target mind comes at an unbelievable price. Far far far more than the other classes.
Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters require resources to target mind--and for that matter, don't require large amounts of very rare and specific resources to target mind well. Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters need to master their entire profession to even begin to be effective at targetting mind. Both Riflemen and Bounty Hunters do mind damage from a farther range and at a considerably faster rate than we do. Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters have to maintain large amounts of harvesters AND a factory to even begin to consider doing mind damage.
The tradeoff? It USED to be worth it. Stealth combat in addition to decent damage was worth the innumerable sacrifices we were forced to make, and the large numbers of wholly useless skill trees we were forced to climb, IN ADDITION TO A CRAFTING BRANCH.
Now, however, all that has changed. With the requirement of Line of Sight, we're popped before we even get close enough to use our Poison. And the one DISTINCT advantage we have still, AoE, gets us ripped up, as every single pet and player draws aggro on you when you area poison. So even if you survive to get the poison off, you still die, no matter what.
And you know what? I got a poison off in a group today to try and force myself to give this new patch a chance. And as soon as I did, I got spammed again telling me that CMs are cheap and poisons are too strong, and that I'm exploiting. This leads me to believe that damage will be dropped on poisons as well, even though as it stands, we're about the same strength as a well-placed mind-bleed, and much slower than the other two main mind damage dealers.
We didn't just get the short end of the stick. We got the stick shoved violently somewhere where it shouldn't be, and if things continue as they are, Poisons will be rendered totally useless, Diseases will continue to not be fixed and useless in any case, and all we'll get in exchange is the ability to run up hills a bit faster so we can get to somewhere where we can do nothing faster.
Give me a break.
Wakka_Wakka wrote:
You don't see how we got the short end of the stick?
No, I don't.
Our ability to target mind comes at an unbelievable price. Far far far more than the other classes.
You really think so? I'm sorry but I don't see the "Innumerable" sacrifices we as combat medics have forced upon us.
I think it breaks down very nicely:
Riflemen- cheapest (skill-point-expenditure wise) way to target mind pool. Very poor mobility/poor close-range combat/poor dps.
Combat Medics- middlin cost (in skill points.) Requires lots of recources. Gets vast area-of-effect. Gets ability to ranged heal/ranged area heal.
Bounty Hunters- massive skill point costs. Best single-target mind dmg.
Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters require resources to target mind--and for that matter, don't require large amounts of very rare and specific resources to target mind well. Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters need to master their entire profession to even begin to be effective at targetting mind. Both Riflemen and Bounty Hunters do mind damage from a farther range and at a considerably faster rate than we do. Neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters have to maintain large amounts of harvesters AND a factory to even begin to consider doing mind damage.
Yes, but neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters can heal - at all. In addition, neither Riflemen nor Bounty Hunters can inflict a bleed on such a massive area in one stroke, and head for the hills afterwards.
The tradeoff? It USED to be worth it. Stealth combat in addition to decent damage was worth the innumerable sacrifices we were forced to make, and the large numbers of wholly useless skill trees we were forced to climb, IN ADDITION TO A CRAFTING BRANCH.
Again, I don't see the "large number" of "wholly useless" skill tree(s) we were forced to climb. Given that the medic tree allows us to use a good ammount of non-combat meds, drag players, etc. The one marksman tree we're forced to climb gives us warning shot - which isn't "wholly" useless.
Now, however, all that has changed. With the requirement of Line of Sight, we're popped before we even get close enough to use our Poison. And the one DISTINCT advantage we have still, AoE, gets us ripped up, as every single pet and player draws aggro on you when you area poison. So even if you survive to get the poison off, you still die, no matter what.
In the event that you throw an area poison on a massive group of people who are not already engaged in combat - yes, you will get gunned down and rightfuly so. In the event that you're with a large group, in a support role, the battle engages and you toss a poison in afterwards - the results are much different.
And you know what? I got a poison off in a group today to try and force myself to give this new patch a chance. And as soon as I did, I got spammed again telling me that CMs are cheap and poisons are too strong, and that I'm exploiting. This leads me to believe that damage will be dropped on poisons as well, even though as it stands, we're about the same strength as a well-placed mind-bleed, and much slower than the other two main mind damage dealers.
People have a very negative view of poisons right now, simply because it *was* so lame and cheap that they could be applied through walls/buildings/whatever. Most non-Combat Medic folks don't know about the changes that went through. It'll take awhile for CMs to get respect back after all the lame kills we got.
We didn't just get the short end of the stick. We got the stick shoved violently somewhere where it shouldn't be, and if things continue as they are, Poisons will be rendered totally useless, Diseases will continue to not be fixed and useless in any case, and all we'll get in exchange is the ability to run up hills a bit faster so we can get to somewhere where we can do nothing faster.
Give me a break.
Well, I'm sorry they took away your ability to wipe out entire towns single-handedly. And, I'm sorry that you have such amazing healing abilities that you're apparently not even using when you get up those hills to "do nothing faster." I'm sorry that being able to intentionaly inflict massive wounds is a "useless" skill.
Give me a break.
-C