Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Combat Medic in comparision to other professions
It should be as easy to cure as it is to attack with...
As it is now, NOTHING beats a CM and mind poison. SImply put, IMHO, the CM profession is way to powerful in comparison to ANY other profession. IMHO all master professions in second tree should be equally strong. Mind poision immunity would be simple and only usuable by emergency technitions or stimpack chemists and would work less than half the time and be complex to makebut at least it would be SOMETHING to help lower the deadliness of mind poison.
in comparison
Riflemen have to be far away and can still miss using mind bender and headshot, and even so when firing on someone who has a large mind pool it takes at least 2 shots with a powerful T21 which takes WAY longer and costs WAY more to do. Not sure about eyeshot.
Either the attack of throwing the stim have a lower success rate or the mind be easier to heal. Balance the medic/doctor and combat medic and this game PVP-wise will be fun again.
SeDaiEraxo wrote:It should be as easy to cure as it is to attack with...
As it is now, NOTHING beats a CM and mind poison. SImply put, IMHO, the CM profession is way to powerful in comparison to ANY other profession. IMHO all master professions in second tree should be equally strong. Mind poision immunity would be simple and only usuable by emergency technitions or stimpack chemists and would work less than half the time and be complex to makebut at least it would be SOMETHING to help lower the deadliness of mind poison.
in comparison
Riflemen have to be far away and can still miss using mind bender and headshot, and even so when firing on someone who has a large mind pool it takes at least 2 shots with a powerful T21 which takes WAY longer and costs WAY more to do. Not sure about eyeshot.
Either the attack of throwing the stim have a lower success rate or the mind be easier to heal. Balance the medic/doctor and combat medic and this game PVP-wise will be fun again.
Mind damage is the problem..... period.
Poison can only really be effective once you are a master combat medic. It also is only really effective if you spend a lot of time and money collecting good resources to craft good poisons. Poisons also interfere with our ability to heal.
The counter to poison/disease is a doctor. Their ability to cure poison/disease is obviously underpowered since they have no AE cure.
As a master CM id have to agree it is a bit much, and not really possible to deal with(less you ahve a doc who knows how to play efficently)
However about the rifleman statement. Apparently you ahve not seen any decent riflemen in action dealing ranged (64m) AE shots at 2-3k per second is worse than AE mind poision from a direct standpoint. Only real difference is, you can kill the Rifleman and live to tell about it, poisions... well you are screwed no matter what again unless you have a good doc handy.
You may still from the rifleman too, with a good stack of bleeds and no Doc is going to get rid of that bleed anywhere near as well as they can get rid of a poison. CMs have a counter, Riflemen don't, in that respect
Add I aslo agree that Mind Poison is not so much the problem, but Mind Damage itself.
THat being said I cannt more stongly disagree that the Master of any one profession should directly match that of another.
I do agree that Masters of similar skillpoint requirements should be balanced together, but a Master VH or even Master CM should always own someone who has only Mastered, say, Pistoleer.
THat's at base skill spend.
However, a Master BH who sepnt all skill points to round out a bit (say with a little Novice Medic thrown in) should be balanced against a full skill spent Master Pitoller (with say Master Doc under their belt.) In such a case it should be a tought but even fight. The BH desl more damage and hels themself for minor damage. The Pistoller deals less damage but walks into the fitht with buffs and better healing ability. THAT, I think, is where the Balance should lie, not in saying that all Masters should be equal, becuase the cost is not equal to get to Master.
i couldnt disagree with you more... do us all a favor and try playing the profession before you knock it down, it helps evade some misconceptions people have aobut us. first off, guess what? mindpoison misses too, just like a rifleman's shot. secondly, how often are you hit with this stuff in pvp? i cant claim for what its like on others, but my server is just eyeshot spamming BHs taking part in pvp along with commandos nowadays. i dont see CMs on the battlefield almoast ever. which makes me wonder why not...
simple, its HARD to be a CM. however, its very easy to get a scatter pistol, get a first tier BH pistol skill, and spam eyeshot for days upon days. ever tried making an AOE C poison pack? gathering the 20ish different resources takes TIME my friend. ever tried getting close enough to a BH to use a mind poison? closing to 40m before you are eyeshot spammed so bad that you dont have enough mind to even toss it and then watching as you loose more and more faction since you never get DBs for killing anything isnt my idea of overpowered. if I get the drop on someone i can likely take them out. if they see me first, i'm dead, plain and simple. a smart pvper realizes that CMs are inneffective beyond 40m and will fill your eyes full of blaster fire, sick his pets on you, or keep running in the other direction so that i can never close to 40m and throw a poison at them.
you sir (or mam) need to realize that CMs have a role in the game. we're effective damage dealers if escorted to a large group of targets. if we're not, we're lucky to even get that dreaded aoe poison off. every class has its strengths, weaknesses, and bugs. some have more than others but guess what? no CM is unstoppable in his/her own right.
how about using some tactics instead of complaining that we're overpowered... if you see a CM runnin after you, whip out your spraystick, and start headshot3ing them as you run away and keep just beyond 40m. or better yet, have a doctor with you if you pvp. master docs who have good quality poison cure packs (took the time and arent lazy) can easily cure poison. bring one with you next time you hunt player's heads if you dont want to be killed by a CM. otherwise, dont complain that we are overpowered and that NOTHING can beat us, cause its quite possible. i'm victimized by deaths in pvp daily. realize every player's role, and dont be mad when someone gets the jump on you and makes you a victim of good tactics
- I am talking about close combat via mind bleeding.
- Riflemen are ONLY effective at 50some-64, hence, in PVP in-town, its USELESS. im talking about moenia not theed.
- What is the delay between charges for mind poison? I doubt its 9.5 seconds. my rifle does 195-523 dmg but takes forever to load and discharge. though usually one mindshot 2 and headshot 3 will kill but it takes like 5x as long to do. not to mention it costs more mind-wise for riflemen to attack (so if you are poisoned and use mindshot2 and headshot 3 you are only killing yourself faster and most of the time can't counter before the poison incaps you)
- TEf and CM are evil. in fact i was poisoned after i was dead and spawned in the cloning center poisoned. HOW IS THAT RIGHT?
- Riflemen need space to fight soif you have tef and are suddenly poisoned in close combatwhile say next to the medcenter/clonestation in moenia, you are simply screwed.
- I know they are different attack modes and one shouldnt use a rifle in close combat, but all I am saying is that its EASIER to run up to someone then run away and that the gap between 40 and 64 is better than the gap between 50 and 64, meaning 1-40 and CM wins - 50-64 (if you can stay that far away) and rifleman wins.
- I know about craft grinding and personally get bored of it. So, fine, it takes either A] time or B] money to make poison. where as with rifleman all you need is 500 mind and you can bleed someone from a long way away.
- So combat medic has a better range window and a faster rate of attack. while rifleman can use mindbleed without having to craft soemthing, only difference if CM should be prepared (make poison before going pvp) and riflemen need buffs to stand a chance (costs lots of mind to bleed somene).
- I guess my post was just so i could get things straight, but i still feel that something needs to be done about mind poision (i.e., if im not mistaken you get mind poision relativly early in CM whereas, if im not mistaken, a doctor can only cure poision closer to the top of the doc tree.
- thanks for your comments
Well First off Mind poison A and AOE mind poison A are just ingredient sinks and people that use it just get laughed at. it does between 10-30 dmg. OH NO NOT 10-30 dmg EVERY 10 SECONDS OMG IM SO DEAD!! Give me a break SeDaiEraxo. as a master combat medic my poisons are about 8-9 seconds between ticks. SO please go right ahead and bitch by all means it just makes you sound more whiney than you really are. Sure there is a lot of bugs in this game and being poisoned after your dead is one of them, if you dont like it just go back to being neutral. than you dont have to deal with those pesky mind poisons and those that one shot ya. And What the heck are you thinking if you sit next to a clone center or med center and start a fight? Come on please if you already died and your comeing out of the clone center you start thestupidity not the other way around.
"but all I am saying is that its EASIER to run up to someone then run away and that the gap between 40 and 64 is better than the gap between 50 and 64,"
Did you forget about burst run again? Now go ahead and make that excuse again.
"So combat medic has a better range window and a faster rate of attack. while rifleman can use mindbleed without having to craft soemthing, only difference if CM should be prepared (make poison before going pvp) and riflemen need buffs to stand a chance (costs lots of mind to bleed somene)."
We have a faster attack if we use a pistol or a carbine But what if we also use a rifle? Than guess what were in the same boat as you. And as far as a Rifleman getting upclose to a combat medic. What the heck are you doing lying on the ground in pvp? You should kneel if you want better accuracy otherwise hide near some sorta obsticle but dont leave yourself open to a player going hey that fool is lying down and i can get to him before he has a chance to stand up..... Its all about thinking on your feet. If you Think the mind poisons are so god like that they otta be nerfed why dont you get yourself up to Master combat medic and than take the time to find all the ingredients to make 1 decent 500+ mind poison. The A and B poison kits are a joke and a half anyone can sit down and just watch them do there thing and chances are its going to take at least 3 minutes for them to kill you unless its being nudged along by someone shooting you.
So in the end all i really have to say is Play smarter not stupider. If you dont like how Fair it is. Try steping in there shoes or go back to being neutral.
( sorry this just really urks me people haveing no footing and complaneing up a storm about something they havent even bothered to look at from the other side of the fence)
SeDaiEraxo wrote:
- I am talking about close combat via mind bleeding.
- Riflemen are ONLY effective at 50some-64, hence, in PVP in-town, its USELESS. im talking about moenia not theed.
- What is the delay between charges for mind poison? I doubt its 9.5 seconds. my rifle does 195-523 dmg but takes forever to load and discharge. though usually one mindshot 2 and headshot 3 will kill but it takes like 5x as long to do. not to mention it costs more mind-wise for riflemen to attack (so if you are poisoned and use mindshot2 and headshot 3 you are only killing yourself faster and most of the time can't counter before the poison incaps you)
- TEf and CM are evil. in fact i was poisoned after i was dead and spawned in the cloning center poisoned. HOW IS THAT RIGHT?
- Riflemen need space to fight soif you have tef and are suddenly poisoned in close combatwhile say next to the medcenter/clonestation in moenia, you are simply screwed.
- I know they are different attack modes and one shouldnt use a rifle in close combat, but all I am saying is that its EASIER to run up to someone then run away and that the gap between 40 and 64 is better than the gap between 50 and 64, meaning 1-40 and CM wins - 50-64 (if you can stay that far away) and rifleman wins.
- I know about craft grinding and personally get bored of it. So, fine, it takes either A] time or B] money to make poison. where as with rifleman all you need is 500 mind and you can bleed someone from a long way away.
- So combat medic has a better range window and a faster rate of attack. while rifleman can use mindbleed without having to craft soemthing, only difference if CM should be prepared (make poison before going pvp) and riflemen need buffs to stand a chance (costs lots of mind to bleed somene).
- I guess my post was just so i could get things straight, but i still feel that something needs to be done about mind poision (i.e., if im not mistaken you get mind poision relativly early in CM whereas, if im not mistaken, a doctor can only cure poision closer to the top of the doc tree.
- thanks for your comments
1. very well, close combat you can strike me with 2 mind bleeds from a spraystick or even an e11 in the same time it takes me to hit you with a poison... a double stacked mind bleed may not be too bad, but then just drop a HS3 with that spraystick and you're all done.
2.ever try pvping in a town isnt so easy as a CM either, cause we are forced to get close and personal and are often killed before we can close. also clone centers nearby are our worst enemy.
3. because the timers on our attacks are possibly bugged, or possibly not, heres what happens when you toss a poison at master CM... toss, then "you cannot do this for another 3 seconds"after that, "you must wait to perform this action" for a total of 5 seconds. so a CM has a cooldown time of 8 seconds, very similar to your own rifle. and 7 seconds longer than a BH using eyeshot....
4. every honest CM you will ever see knows thats a greif, myself included. sry its a bug with the class that can be exploited, but theres no other real way to deal with it. i never do it myself, but there are always those who will. more importantly though, TEFs in general suck horribly. theres nothing like having killed someone only to have a revenge tef used on you right thereafter. this applies to all classes, not just us.
5. see #4. if i have a revenge TEF on you i can come poison you, but the same goes the other way. if you have one on me, you can get yourself to 60m, go prone, and whack the piss out of me before i can even see you with a HS3... it works both ways
6. an interesting point to argue, although we both know nothing is going to change in this regard in the near future as its not on any dev's top priority list. yeah, my window of success is larger than yours (40m total compared to 25m total) but, if smart, a rifleman gets that all important first shot... even with our good old 75% reduction, thats still more than enough for an HS3. and yes, my shots miss too, probably about 70-80% success rate which might be just slightly higher than a rifle at 40-60m, but not too much so.
7. thats exactly the point. ever tried to buy a single C poison pack off a CM who manufactures them? about 1.5k per 30-50 charge pack (depending on the vendor). its a LOT of money when you start adding up the number of shots you can get off with a rifle compared to the same number of charges i'd need. a combat only class merely has to do a couple missions for maybe 2 hours. a CM would have to do days worth of missions or spend hours upon hours grinding and continuing to maintain harvesters, factories, and houses to store it all. you guys pick up a gun and shoot it... i think we earned what we have.
8. yup, thats about right
9. you're beyond wrong there, in one sense.. we need crafting 1 to get the mind poison A schematic single target.... however you'll also need CM support 2 to use it. then, the thing SUCKS HORRIBLY. i made some with amazing quality resources (900 OQ stuff mostly, advanced components, only 1 resource was 400 OQ out of the list of 20ish... gdamned class4 petro which still hasnt spawned in good quality above 400 since week 1 of the game on my server). so, an uber A pack made with my weak 2 expt pointsdid 50dmg/10sec and wasRESISTED 80% of the time from a range of under 19m (over wont fire). a doctor needs support2 and craft 1 as well to make and use a poisoncure pack (disease requires support4). however, his/hers already are effective since he/she has 7 experimentation points to work with at that point from the tie over with regular medic. a CM only has 2 expperiment points at the same level. so, a CM is higly inneffective both against another similarly armed combat class, and is countered WAY more often by a doctor than we can even throw a poison. fact is that you dont get usable single target Cs and area Cs until master level (takes master CM use to use a single target C even though craft4 will let you make it). so until we are masters, we are far beyond our combat counterparts. single B poisons will be lucky to do 200/10sec LUCKY. more like 120ish. its not till you get to C and have 10 expt points that a CM can make something worthwhile. and i'll remind you that to get master, we have to grind it out. even if we then choose to spend money to have someone else keep us stocked with packs, we have to grind to be able to use them (since CMs only get 90 CM use at masters while docs get 100 at master, we're hampered by being FORCED to make master to use our C packs). trust me on this info, i'm both doc and CM so i know how we counter each other. a Doc does it much lower down in the tree than a CM does. although, a doc is going to have trouble killing 10 poisoned people by his lonesome before he's incapped. something needs to be done about that, but again, thats a low low down dev possibility, sry. medics are the unwanted stepchildren when it comes to dev attention, so things like that arent getting addressed any time soon.
10. hope i cleared some more things up
Mort wrote:
The A and B poison kits are a joke and a half anyone can sit down and just watch them do there thing and chances are its going to take at least 3 minutes for them to kill you unless its being nudged along by someone shooting you.
Or if you are using mindshot/headshot.
- I am talking strictly mind draining attacks here, specifically mind poison and mind/headshots. In other words my question is, "what are the HAM costs for using a mind poison kit?"
- Anyway you put it 0-40 is much better than 50-64.
- Combine mind poison with any pistoleer/bh attack and its rather difficult to even move/counterattack.
Mort wrote:
Well First off Mind poison A and AOE mind poison A are just ingredient sinks and people that use it just get laughed at. it does between 10-30 dmg. OH NO NOT 10-30 dmg EVERY 10 SECONDS OMG IM SO DEAD!! Give me a break SeDaiEraxo. as a master combat medic my poisons are about 8-9 seconds between ticks. SO please go right ahead and bitch by all means it just makes you sound more whiney than you really are.
- At least you can shoot while your opponent's mind drains, rifleman just stand/kneel/run while waiting to fire again. mind poison is more effective, efficient, and faster than rifleman mind draining abilities.
- No I am not a moron and yes I think on my feet, I dont lay around unless im 64m away and shooting at someone who doesn't know im there, once they see me though and im laying there and kneel to stand and burst run they are already 40 meters to me and hitting me with mind poison
- In the end mind draining abilities are rather lame as far as healing abilities go, at the moment.
- I am not saying that its easier to be a CM because I know about crafting and how much time /money it takes. I dropped artisan, id rather just buy what I need or rely on my guild for support while supplying ranger stuffs.
- 10-30 dmg every8-9 seconds is extreamly harmful if you are using mind/headshot every 10 seconds which drains alot each shot, not to mention (again) that a rifleman with powerful t21 can't attack for 9 seconds between shots. 30dmg on top of 70ham cost = -100 every 10 seconds not including other attacks used on us.
- my mind is my largest and strongest attribute (entertainers are a rifleman's best friend
)
thanks for the comments
its costs about the same then, that was my question, i had no preconcived notioned on the ham costs i simply didn't know. you can simply poison and run and kill later when you're enemy is down. so can riflemen. point is is that poison is more efficient with AOE i only wish riflemen could aoe mind bleed... you can incap 5 peeples in 5 minutes!
hah, no need to get defensive, silly 