Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Rebuilding CM from Scratch..
so feel free to ignore this post.. or to write out your complete CM rebuild.. or comment on my thoughts or whatever..
I'd envisioned Combat Medics as a Patch you up and get you pulling the trigger again profession.. providing only the most basic medical care.. leaving everything else to the field surgeons..
I'd not envisioned them as bio-terrorists.. just as that person who is gonna do what they can to keep me alive..
Bearing that in mind.. my rebuild as follows...
Skilltree Prereq's:
Medic 4400
Marksman 0004
notes:
pulled out organic chem because you don't need to know how to make demerol to stick a needle in someone
pulled out pharmacology because it will become redundant in 'Combat Medicine' where application of medicine is not in a 'controlled environment' like you would find in a hospital..
CM Skilltree Changes:
CM 000X
add Ranged Defense 35 at 0004 (5,5,5,10,10 asencion thru the tree to master)
add State defenses 25 at master (5,5,5,5,5 asencion thru the tree to master)
CM 00X0
Move Poison/disease crafting ability to Bio engineers. (to me it makes more sense that they make it)
Replace with State cures.
Stun at 1.. Dizzy at 2.. Blind at 3.. Poison at 4.. Fire at master.. all non-ranged (5m)
CM 0X00
Make mindheal cause less wounds/bf.. or make it stim-able at master combat medic
What to do about poison/disease..
Step 1.. make BE's craft it..
Step 2.. Poisons only affect primaries (cause damage not wounds.. can incap)
Step 3.. Diseases only affect secondaires (wounds will accumulate to current character stats so will affect buffed area..)
Step 4.. Reflect Poison/disease damage/wounds on a 3 second basis.. (not changing overall damage.. just making it more readily apparent that you've been damaged/wounded and how bad)
Step 5.. no havala for offensive abilities.. (but will affect CM cures)
Step 6.. Stacking issues.. all posions/diseases stack on the player.. but player only takes damage from highest damaging each tick.. (so you could have a single poison that does 200/tick for 1 min and a single poison that does 150/tick for 2 minutes.. for the first minute the player takes 200 damage/tick for the second minute 150/tick just used easy numbers here.. substitute with what you'd normally use)
Step 7.. keep the heal timers and the applydisease/applypoison timers seperate (as i'm sure this proto would need tweaking)
Step 8.. Give base resists to poison/disease to each Species (possibly add bonuses to certain professions... BE and Doc's (as much as i'm an un-fan of docs life is too easy for them as it is.. like a chanter and a cleric in EQ rolled into 1 *sigh) spring to mind)
Step 9.. Give base Resists to armor (enclosed suits.. composite (ya like we need more excuses to see composite EVERYWHERE *sigh).. stormtrooper.. etc)
Step 10.. Make equippable gear with bonuses/immunity (rebreathers.. gas masks etc)
Step 11.. balance out Poison/disease damage in PVE ~ PVP.. either weaken in PVP.. or strengthen in PVE.. or both..
Oddball thoughts to go along with this..
Poison/Disease application 'weapon' certification.. think SWAT team tear gas launcher thingy..
Side Effects.. negative state generation if secondary save is failed.. (calculated using their resist at +25 while out of state.. and their resist at base while in state.. once again numbers pulled for ease of use.. and only used to illustrate that while in dizzy state you're more suceptible to the side effect)
State attack 'Gas' for ranged support (possibly side effects of poison or disease.. using generic term 'gas' could be a weapon like the grenade launcher thingy.. or a thrown grenade).. Stun.. dizzy.. scare (intimidate).. and blind.. and fire (anyone can hurl a molotov.. 8) which would make us much more useful in combat if they gave us fire suppression ability
Now that i've finished this and sat back and taken a quick read.. i'm sure there's some of you that would say this is over/underpowered.. and notatal what you want..
to me it looks along the lines of overpowered at a glance.. and i'd be willing to drop all the poison/disease altogether for a couple small arms certifications.. and a couple weak specials..
but that's how i'd want to play.. have the ability to keep people up and going.. till they eventually break.. and still have enough skillpoints leftover that i can pop off a couple shots when i can..
i'm sure there's quite a few of you out there that wouldn't mind dropping most/all fo the healing from CM.. and going pure bio-terrorist.. not my style.. but as long as you're having fun with it.. more power to you..
hrmm.. mabye therein lies the problem.. that CM is a hybrid profession that should in fact be split into 2 professions.. those who want to deal the damage.. and those who want to stave it off..
anyway.. enough of my server's down for the nite ramblings.. it's back up now.. i'm gonna go play..
have fun all 8)
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 08-02-2004 09:24 PM
somerandomuser wrote:
Note: i'm a new player still haven't hit 30 days.. with all the upcoming changes.. and the hullabaloo.. i thought i'd start this thread just working my own thoughts out on what i envision cm to be/need..
Would suggest you master then play the profession for at least 30 days before envisioning a rebuild of it. More playtime and experience = better understanding of where the classes stand in the scheme of things.
"Would suggest you master then play the profession for at least 30 days before envisioning a rebuild of it. More playtime and experience = better understanding of where the classes stand in the scheme of things."
sorry if i see a combat medic differently than you do.. i tend to lean more toward the medic side than the combat side..
this is why i said why don't we all do our own theorhetical rebuild.. to see what each of us wants.. i don't want to be poisonchucker mindsniping uverpvptemplate.. i want to be the person my friends want to have around not only for my cute and fun personality.. but for my ability to keep them pulling the trigger.. swinging the sword or whathaveyou..
this post is all about what we each personally would like.. not your way is wrong noob.. please try to think along those lines.. i'd love to see what you envision Cm as..
somerandomuser wrote:
Brainplay..
"Would suggest you master then play the profession for at least 30 days before envisioning a rebuild of it. More playtime and experience = better understanding of where the classes stand in the scheme of things."
sorry if i see a combat medic differently than you do.. i tend to lean more toward the medic side than the combat side..
this is why i said why don't we all do our own theorhetical rebuild.. to see what each of us wants.. i don't want to be poisonchucker mindsniping uverpvptemplate.. i want to be the person my friends want to have around not only for my cute and fun personality.. but for my ability to keep them pulling the trigger.. swinging the sword or whathaveyou..
this post is all about what we each personally would like.. not your way is wrong noob.. please try to think along those lines.. i'd love to see what you envision Cm as..
I am both a chemical warfare specialist and a ranged master medic. I am a master of both areas and have a backpack full or ranged stims, poisons, woundpacks, and diseases to prove it. Dont try and make it look like knowing just enough about our healing side only is a good thing.
You can heal people all you want but we have another side as well. That and I hate to inform you but unlike any of the other MMO's this game doesn't require a dedicated healer except for the most dire places. Even then a novice medic is only lacking an area heal to match our healing abilities.
My original post still stands and you'd do well to rethink what I said in it. When you've got a bit more exp under your belt rookie then you'll know the in's and out's of our profession and what we're capable of as well as how are abilities apply under game conditions.
Maybe just maybe after the revamp when armor and buffs are nerfed will there be a need for a real dedicated healer. Heck you dont even need a healer fighting Nightsisters unless you brought the wrong armor or pulled more than one. Last time out with my TKM proved that.
"You can heal people all you want but we have another side as well. That and I hate to inform you but unlike any of the other MMO's this game doesn't require a dedicated healer except for the most dire places. Even then a novice medic is only lacking an area heal to match our healing abilities."
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i'm aware of that.. which is why i'm not constantly spammed with group invites because i'm needed for my heals.. which is why i'm thinking of my ideal build so i can get more functionality elsewhere.. and retain my ability for those rare occasions where i do go to places like DWB/vette
"My original post still stands and you'd do well to rethink what I said in it. When you've got a bit more exp under your belt rookie then you'll know the in's and out's of our profession and what we're capable of as well as how are abilities apply under game conditions."
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i have think i have enough of an overall grasp to know what i'd change if i could.. that's why i listed all those changes.. mabye i don't have the experience to put actual numbers for skill values.. but that is easily tweaked for a few days till it turns out right.. and i'm well aware what CM templates are capable of.. i watch others doing some pretty amazing stuff.. but i don't want to be another 'comp clone CM/rifleman' or 'comp clone CM/tk'.. i'm quite fond of my overpriced padded aarmor that has worse encum than my comp suit.. and lower resists all round compared to it.. lowering cm skill cost would give me a wider array of options.. i could set up a vendor.. i could survey my own resources.. i could harvest on my own.. without having to give up my primary combat profession (omg that's right i see CM as a support class and not a bonefide combat profession) which was pistoleer.. but trying carbineer at the moment to see if i prefer it (and so far i do)..
"Maybe just maybe after the revamp when armor and buffs are nerfed will there be a need for a real dedicated healer. Heck you dont even need a healer fighting Nightsisters unless you brought the wrong armor or pulled more than one. Last time out with my TKM proved that."
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well i for one would hope so.. i'd like to get back to groups.. even if they are smallish (3-4 as opposed to 5+).. and ya.. with buffs even in my padded suit using only my pistoleer skills i was able to solo a NS protector till she started walking away.. right in to a group of 5 more of them at which point i decided to go elsewhere)..
why don't you take the time to write up your Cm rebuild?? what (if any) changes you would make?? or even just say 'cm is perfect on live servers don't touch a thing'..
Alot of credit to the others that posteda lotof these ideas (Gnutt, Lexy, Texxie, Padhbacca, Tsu, to name a few) I sorta mashed it all together into a pile
Prerequisite (33 Skill Points left at Master CM)
- Master Medic
- Master Marksman
CM Tree Changes
- Combat Medic Support Line
- change the combat medic support line to require combat xp for advancment and should reflect pistoleer, rifleman, and carbineer requirements.
- Add a certification for an AP pistol and one pistol special in the Intermediate Combat MedicSupport box +10 pistol accuracy while moving
- Add a certification for an AP carbine and one carbine special in the Advanced Combat Medic Support box +10 carbine accuracy while moving
- Add a certification for an AP rifle and one rifle special in the Expert Combat Medic Support box +10 rifle accuracy while moving
- Optional addition of a "CM only" firearm certification in the Master Combat Medic Support box and one special for the weapon
- Combat Medic Medicine Crafting
- See possible medical additions, in game items stay where they are now. Increase crafting xp if new CM medicines are added.
- Ranged Healing Speed
- Add +5 to ranged wound treatment speed to each box in this line (if ranged wound packs are added)
- Change medical experience required to match experience requirements of the combat medic support line.
- Ranged Healing Distance
- Change Medicalexperience required to match experience requirements of the Combat medic support line.
- Master Combat Medic
- Add +10 to Pistol weapons accuracy
- Add +10 to Carbine Weapons Accuracy
- Add +10 to Rifle weapons Accuracy
- Add +15 to the "CM only" weapon accuracy (if added)
- Add +5 to ranged wound treatment speed (if ranged wound pack added)
CM Medicine Changes
- Allow all Combat Medic Stims to heal the mind pool
- Change Diseases toencumber a target's HAM or substat by x% over time instead of causing wounds
- diseases would stay on the target untill cured by a doctor (or target is deathblowed)
- diseases would no longer stack
- disease potency would determine the percent of reduction for each tick of the disease untill the maximum reduction is reached.
- Change Poisons so they effect the special's bar by x% over time instead of causing a damage tick (post HAM revamp)
- Poisons would stay on the target untilled cured by a doctor (or target is deathblowed)
- Poisons would no longer stack
- Poison potency would determine the percent of reduction for each tick of the poison untill the maximum reduction is reached
Doctor Medicine Changes
- Change Doctor Buffs to increase a target's base stats by x% instead of by a set value
- Change Disease innoculations so they
- migitate the effectivness of diseases
- ease the ability of a doctor to remove (cure) the disease state
- or possibly remove the innoculation
- Change Disease Cures so they
- Have a muchlower effectivness
- Have a duration like current diseases
- Have a tick interval like current diseases
- block a disease re-application for the duration of the cure (limited disease immunity)
- Change Poison innoculations so they
- migitate the effectivness of poisons
- ease the ability of a doctor to remove (cure) the poison state
- or possibly remove the innoculation
- Change poison Cures so they
- Have alower effectivness
- Have a duration like current poisons
- Have a tick interval like current poisons
- block a poison re-application for the duration of the cure (limited poison immunity)
New CM Medicines
- Ranged and area A or B level wound packs for battlefield healing
- Single target Status packs (blind, stun, intimidate)
- Armor reduction pack- reduces the effectivness of one type of damage resistance on the target. Squad Leader required in the group to utilize the "hole" in the target's armor (if armor is notadjusted)
- Armor buff pack - increases the effectivness of one type of damage resistance on the target (if armor is adjusted)
How the Poison/Disease and the Curescould work
If the cures were made to act like a CM poison toward the changed CM medicines I think things could be balanced out. The cures would be given a duration and a "cure tick", each cure tick would subtract from the effectivness of the poison/disease that is on a target. If a cure had an effectivness of 100, every 8 seconds 100 would be subtracted from the effectivness of the target's poison untill it reached zero (poison status removed) or untill the cure duration ended. So if a CM applied a venom poison with an effectivness of 1000, it would take 10 "cure ticks" (88 seconds) to cure the target. The cure time could be reduced if the target in question had an innoculation. If the target had an innoculation with a 400 effectivness rating, this would temporarly reduce the poison effectivness to 600 requiring only six ticks from the cure pack. One of the main problems between CM's and doctors is the "spamming" of area poison, if it were made so that a poison could not be appliedfor the duration of the cure, it would help to end thisunbalancedsituation. Cure duration should be no longer than current CM poisons/diseases
Current poison and disease pack values could probably be used if the effectivness and potencyrating were multiplied by 0.05 for effectivness and 0.5 for potency. If a 1000 effectiveness, 100 potency poison were used by a CM it would reduce the targets Specials pool by 5% untill the50% cap is reached. Some dev magic could beused to figure out how to work the Combat Medic effectivness modifier into the equation. Also since diseases generally have a lower effectivness rating compaired to poisons, and diseases will be the "physical" threat to players, thenumbers may not need to be adjusted too much.
Why Battlefield Wound Healing may be needed
With all the changes that are to be done to SWG, I have a theory that wounding will be the main threat for PvP and the GCW. For this reason I suggested that diseases be changed so as not to wound but instead to cause an encumbering type effect on primary and secondary stats (the same thing that happens when you wear armor) BH and Commandos can still cause some considerable wounding in battle and I think that a somewhat limited ability to heal these wounds could be used on the field. I don't think a B level area wound pack will be overpowering and this would also help to add to the role of a Combat Medic. If the wound pack is tossedperhaps a "Field Hospital" could be made into a Faction perk for doctors and CM's, or Ranger camps could have some defensive abilities for GCW skirmishes. The only concern I have is that if wounding does become the limiting factor, special attention should be given to combat professions that can inflictserious mind wounds in short periods of time. Entertainers that don't have any combat skills may want to pick some up.
Overall gameplay changes
- When a player's armor requires higher substats than the player has (buff wears off while armor is equiped)
- An Encumbered Status should be placed on the player which
- Reduces Damage modifiers
- Reduces Mobility
- Reduces Defensive Modifiers
- Reduces Accuracy
- untill the player is either rebuffed or armor is removed
- CM and Doctor Medicines could be altered so that a BE crafted Item is required for the most effective medicines.
- Any other Ideas? Comments?
Message Edited by Kavedawg on 08-07-2004 06:58 AM
Gkarofnarn wrote:
Nice Post Kavedawg =) just wondering abt 1 thing though. What abt weapon speed + at master cm? with the 33 skill points left after MCM would you get desent weapon speed if say you focus the remaining 33 points on for instanse Carabin?
not sure actually, It would depend on the damage of the specials introduced into the combat support line. If the damage modifier were somewhat high for the specials, then I can understand limiting CM weapon speed to the base speed on the weapon. To get a speed increase, the CM would need to spend skill points in the pistoleer, Carbineer, or rifelman trees.
Then again it's all make believe right now, so any suggestions on what theFirearmDamage potentialof a CMshould be under the proposed requirements is open for disscussion.