Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Opinions on Speed Debuff?
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Famas
Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:01 pm
#1
I would just like to get people's opinions on the current state of the speed debuff. Before the nerf, docs buffed for 40 speed and CMs debuffed for -40 speed. Thatseemed pretty balanced. CM as a support class could really mess people up by killing their speed buffs. In pvp, speed buffs are life/death and if someone can take that away, it can have an amazing effect on an opponent's offensive power.
With pub 21, docs buff for +25 but the CM debuff still takes away -40. Isnt that a little unbalanced? Instead of having a special that can counteract the positive doc power, CM has a special that can run it into the ground taking away at least 15 speed away from someone.
It even gets worse with players that do not even have speed buffs. -40 to speed is devastating that renders one's offensive capabilities completly useless (4-5 seconds per attack). Instead of CM being a nice support class, it seems to have turned into the Fotm complement class for any damage dealer.
I always thought of docs being the guys that do all the positive things to people while the combat medics do all the evil things to counteract the doc positive stuff. Instead, the debuff in its current state sort of unbalances that relationship.
One request is that this strictly stays as a discussion thread and not a flamefest. If you have something to say contrary to what was stated, be nice and post it in a good way. Contrary opinions are welcome but aholes are not. thx
Quandry
Mon Aug 08, 2005 5:27 pm
#2
Well a doc buffs the whole group up before the fight...and not just the speed but the health and action and mind as well. Then heals his mind back up before the fighting even starts.
So considering if we want to touch any of those buffs with our debuffs we have to do it in fight at less than 10m. And doing so takes about half the mind pool if we did it all...To just one guy. Yeh id say its fair.
If you want one on one duels to be even sorry but the game is made for group stuff and big wars. WIth healing to the point that a healer can help a group the solo healers (doc jedi and cm) one on one is just crazy. I dont think this game ever will be "balanced" one on one...And they wont try to hard to get it that way. Hopefully there will end up being more than about 3 classes worth taking like pre cu.
So considering if we want to touch any of those buffs with our debuffs we have to do it in fight at less than 10m. And doing so takes about half the mind pool if we did it all...To just one guy. Yeh id say its fair.
If you want one on one duels to be even sorry but the game is made for group stuff and big wars. WIth healing to the point that a healer can help a group the solo healers (doc jedi and cm) one on one is just crazy. I dont think this game ever will be "balanced" one on one...And they wont try to hard to get it that way. Hopefully there will end up being more than about 3 classes worth taking like pre cu.
Famas
Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:25 pm
#3
Agreed but what about situations where pvp duels are forced upon (BH/jedi and small confrontations)? CM along with a prof like BH/Pistols/Carbs/Rifles/whatever is very nice. One gets great offense capabilities, good defense capabilities, great healing capabilities, and offensive dots/debuffs.
With a -40 speed debuff, a duel elite prof with medic that is extremely strong on offense completly loses its edge in that area against a CM. It might not be a problem now, but when everyone starts going master whatever/master CM, any other duel elite template is left in the dust.
Would it completly destroy the CM profession to bring the speed debuff back in-line with the doctor buff? -25 speed would still cripple an unbuffed player however wouldn't completly kill his offensive edge. A CM/BH hitting every 1-2 seconds versus a duel elite hitting every 2-3 seconds seems a lot more fair than 4-5 seconds.
SkalTrenton
Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:14 pm
#4
make it so doctors can only buff while in combat and then you can nerf us...thanks
Vipossk
Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:35 pm
#5
how long is a doctor buff?
then how long is a CM debuff?
k thnks, bye
Bounty Hunter Blues
mmaness
Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:20 am
#6
SkalTrenton wrote:
make it so doctors can only buff while in combat and then you can nerf us...thanks
Agreed.... plus people do not realize that thyroid rupture has very little effect on opponents with a weapon speed over 100! In a long enough battle it might, but CMs dont have the offensive capabilities of other templates so its an attempt to bring them to an even ground.
Spookibus
Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:33 am
#7
Famas wrote:
Would it completly destroy the CM profession to bring the speed debuff back in-line with the doctor buff? -25 speed would still cripple an unbuffed player however wouldn't completly kill his offensive edge. A CM/BH hitting every 1-2 seconds versus a duel elite hitting every 2-3 seconds seems a lot more fair than 4-5 seconds.
Nice saber icon.
You're forgetting that our glowbat-wielding friends can stack doc buffs with their own speed buffs. It's mostly Jedi complaining about this because they can't stand the thought of any non-Jedi having anything that's even remotely as good as a Jedi ability.
You're also forgetting that duel-elites have much higher accuracy and speed than an MCM + Anythingtemplate. CM's give up a LOTas a trade-off. It's balanced.
TenshiHanaKinu
Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:49 am
#8
SkalTrenton wrote:
make it so doctors can only buff while in combat and then you can nerf us...thanks
Reduce thecooldown on buffs and I'll have no problem with that. 
chardin
Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:42 am
#9
We are a rated (4) in offense.... and currently very few specials can show that. just because we have one line in healing dosnt mean we are supposed to be 100% support. Whats the point of havign doc buffs or CM de-buffs if they are just meant to negate each other?
lets see.... as a ranged CM fighting a melee, I have to;
1. run into 10m (melee zone)
2. eat my mind (needed to keep healing up)
3. only apply to ONE target (theres more than just you on the battlefield)
4. have an animation that stops me from moving (it takes a long time to get any fair distance between me and a melee chasing)
5. wait through a massive cooldown (i cant snare or kd you for soem time)
6. attempt to kite now (please see #4)
as a ranged CM fighting another ranged, I have to;
1. run into 10m (while being kited)
2. eat my mind (going to need it if im being kited)
3. only apply to one target (which means i can be kited into a group of melee, or spammed by other ranged)
4. have an animation that stops me from moving (but you can continue running)
5. wait through amssive cooldown timer
6. attmept to start dealing dmg
This is a balanced attack.... Anyone that says otherwise is obviously just excercising the jedi policy....
Im Paper. Rock is balanced but Scissors needs a nerfin. kk baibai
lets see.... as a ranged CM fighting a melee, I have to;
1. run into 10m (melee zone)
2. eat my mind (needed to keep healing up)
3. only apply to ONE target (theres more than just you on the battlefield)
4. have an animation that stops me from moving (it takes a long time to get any fair distance between me and a melee chasing)
5. wait through a massive cooldown (i cant snare or kd you for soem time)
6. attempt to kite now (please see #4)
as a ranged CM fighting another ranged, I have to;
1. run into 10m (while being kited)
2. eat my mind (going to need it if im being kited)
3. only apply to one target (which means i can be kited into a group of melee, or spammed by other ranged)
4. have an animation that stops me from moving (but you can continue running)
5. wait through amssive cooldown timer
6. attmept to start dealing dmg
This is a balanced attack.... Anyone that says otherwise is obviously just excercising the jedi policy....
Im Paper. Rock is balanced but Scissors needs a nerfin. kk baibai
SpunkyKuma
Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:42 pm
#10
"how long is a doctor buff?
then how long is a CM debuff?
k thnks, bye"
15 minutes +25?
2 minutes -40? Repeatively reapplied?
Warcry and Lowblow aren't very long and are debuffed by anger if I remember correctly, lasts like 15-20 seconds which isn't critical, 2 ninute and repeatively reapplied is silly.
k thnks, bye?
then how long is a CM debuff?
k thnks, bye"
15 minutes +25?
2 minutes -40? Repeatively reapplied?
Warcry and Lowblow aren't very long and are debuffed by anger if I remember correctly, lasts like 15-20 seconds which isn't critical, 2 ninute and repeatively reapplied is silly.
k thnks, bye?
Vicci A'Tivo - Elder "in your face" Bounty Hunter
SkalTrenton
Wed Aug 10, 2005 5:31 am
#11
and debuffs can be applied out of combat, and definitely dont take like half our mind to full apply?k thnx bye
mmaness
Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:28 am
#12
SpunkyKuma wrote:
"how long is a doctor buff?
then how long is a CM debuff?
k thnks, bye"
15 minutes +25?
2 minutes -40? Repeatively reapplied?
Warcry and Lowblow aren't very long and are debuffed by anger if I remember correctly, lasts like 15-20 seconds which isn't critical, 2 ninute and repeatively reapplied is silly.
k thnks, bye?
UMMMMM, there are ways to avoid a debuff..... stay out of melee range,a CMcan't avoid adrenal boost or force speed, plus if you have enough combat speed, thyroid rupture does not slow you down much!
DanteTheMagnificent
Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:07 am
#13
Just curious on this,
Heard from someone that generally knows what the hell he's talking about (but didn't think to have him cite source at the time, kicking myself now) that Doc and Jedi speed buffs are COMBAT SPEED, and that CM debuff only affects WEAPON SPEED, which are two entirely different things - weapon speed being the lesser of those.
Anyone in the know have a URL to an official source on this? I'm pretty sure he's right from what I've seen using my CM around, and duelling jedi guildmates and such.
Now if it were -40 combat speed, definitely keep it in line with the doc nerf. But being that I'm pretty sure it's weapon speed only - the people crying about it are basing theirr cries on false information.
Again, if this is incorrect and rupture hits combat speed, I apologize ahead of time. But I'm pretty sure this guy was right (he has been about everything else thus far).
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