Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Arent poison and disease applied supposed to incap?
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zelerich
Fri Jun 25, 2004 10:20 pm
#1
My friend and I fought a guy today . And my friend poisoned and diseased this guy. I died and watc him run ariound with 0 mind and not get incap from the disease. There something im missing here?
Gnuut
Sat Jun 26, 2004 1:39 am
#2
Once you get wounded to +1 of your base stat, the Disease stops ticking although BF will still increase. If the player got diseased to +1 then mind poisoned, the poison won't do anything because of the +1 limitation. On a buffed player with say 1000 base and 2000 mind, you would see -999 wounds. The poison would still take him to +1 but it will not incap him. The incap comes when poison decreases the mind so low that on the next disease tic, it does not take into account mind lost, only mind you currently have.
For instance a human with 1000 base mind buffed to 2000. You throw a 150 tic disease and 500 tic poison on him back to back. This is taking into account assuming no willpower for regeneration.
00:01 Poison applied for 500 a tic
00:05 Disease applied for150 a tic
00:11 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1500 mind
00:21 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1000 mind
00:31 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 500 mind
00:41 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1 mind
00:45 Disease tics for 150 taking player to 1850 pool with a total of-149 mind left and is incapped
If the player had high willpower and focus from food and spice or musician buffs, the scenario would be a little different. say human 1000 base in all stats and is musician/dancer buffed to 2000 across the board. Add in Double brandy and triple canape for 2800/4600/4600 (assuming brandy at +400 and canape at +600). Also let's increase the tic rate to 200 on disease.
00:01 Poison applied for 500 a tic
00:05 Disease applied for200 a tic
00:11 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 2300 mind
00:12 Player regens mind at50 mind per second to 2350
00:20 Player regens mind to 2750
00:21 Poison tics for 500 taking player to2250 mind
00:30 Player regens mind to 2700 mind
00:31 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 2200 mind
00:30 Player regens mind to 2650 mind
00:41 Poison tics for 500 taking player to2150 mind
00:45 Disease tics for 200 taking player to2600/2800 mindpool and further decrease of -200 to mind to 1950 mind
00:50 Player regens mind to 2400 mind
00:51 Poison tics for 500 taking player to1900 mind
01:00 Player regens mind to 2350 mind
01:01 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1850 mind
01:10 Player regens mind to 2300 mind
01:11 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1800mind
01:20 Player regens mind to 2250 mind
01:21 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1750 mind
01:25 Disease tics for200 (by this time over 50 BF has accumulated)taking player to2400/2800 mindpool and further decrease of -200 to mind to1550 mind
01:30 Player regens mind to 2000 mind
01:31 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1500 mind
01:40 Player regens mind to 1950 mind
01:41 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1450mind
01:50 Player regens mind to 1900 mind
01:51 Poison tics for 500 taking player to1400mind
02:00 Player regens mind to 1850 mind
02:01 Poison tics for 500 taking player to 1350mind
02:05 Disease tics for400 (by this time over 100 BF has accumulated)taking player to 2000/2800 mindpool and further decrease of -400 to mind to950 mind
02:10 Player regens mind to 1400 mind
02:11 Poison tics for 500 taking player to900mind
02:20 Player regens mind to 1350 mind
02:21 Poison tics for 500 taking player to850mind
02:30 Player regens mind to1300 mind
02:31 Poison tics for 500 taking player to600 mind
02:40 Player regens mind to1050 mind
02:41 Poison tics for 500 taking player to550 mind
02:45 Disease tics for400 (by this time over 100 BF has accumulated)taking player to 1801/2800 mindpool and further decrease of -400 to mind to 150 mind
.........
03:25 Disease tics for 0 (by this time BF has increased to 150 but due to +1 limitation it can no longer tic) Player is at 1801/2800 mind
04:01 Poison wears off
14:00 Disease wears off
Grats you just survived a CM attack without a doctor present. Difficult but not impossible if you are buffed. One thing to keep in mind is that unless you have some fast mind wound healing (ie lots of entertainers etc) I would wait for the poison to wear off before you try healing the mind wounds as this could cause you to incap prematurely.
The disease does not do a check and balance to show that mind has already been reduced to +1. It automatically removes mind and adds wounds to the player thus incapping him.
Message Edited by Gnuut on 06-26-2004 02:00 AM
zelerich
Sun Jun 27, 2004 4:19 am
#5
Yeah i can see what u mean if they are really buffed with food, drink musican buffs, danncer buffs. But this guy had under 2k mind. My friend threw poison first. Then disease. Not sure how powerful the disease was, might have been rather weak. But it just seemed a little odd that well.. the poison too effect and within about 30 sec his mind was all the way gone. Now wouldnt the disease incap him? I mean the poison and disease didnt wear off in 30 sec.
jfang
Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:38 am
#6
Not to be too argumentative, Gnuut, but I think your logic of how diseases incap is wrong. You say that if a person has 1 mind and takes a 150 tick disease, the person will end up at -149 and be incapped. That actually is not the case.
If a person is at 1 mind, the disease will not tick. If the person is at 2 mind, a mind disease, no matter how strong, will only tick for 1 damage and wound. A disease in theory will never tick for more than the person has available to be damaged (similar to the "problem" where if a person has too much encumberance so effective focus pre-buffs is1 or less, a secondary disease will do no wounds to that stat).
I have tested this against several PC and NPCs. See thread:
The bug is that from what I can tell, there is a system glitch so sometimes the system ticks for too much. However, I have not been able to determine what exactly causes this to happen. (I personally am guessing it is a problem with a person having 2/3 of a mind point from regeneration, and the system rounds that up to 1 when calculating tick damage, so the person is incapped by 1 too many point.)
Regardless though, I have had NPCs (with no regenerative abilities so once at 1 health the NPC stay there) last10 minutes of disease without being incapped (and taking no damage), and had a PC last 2 minutes at 1 mind with poison-disease before being incapped. I think it is not impossible for an exceptionally lucky PC to last 15 minutes of disease without being incapped, although extremely unlikely.
MasterTexiria
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:16 am
#7
DOTs use to incapp they changed it as ppl where using them to kill large amount of players and high lvl content with minimal risk to themselves.
DoctorGriggs
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:24 am
#9
zelerich wrote:Yeah i can see what u mean if they are really buffed with food, drink musican buffs, danncer buffs. But this guy had under 2k mind. My friend threw poison first. Then disease. Not sure how powerful the disease was, might have been rather weak. But it just seemed a little odd that well.. the poison too effect and within about 30 sec his mind was all the way gone. Now wouldnt the disease incap him? I mean the poison and disease didnt wear off in 30 sec.
So you guys were actively TRYING to incap someone with poison/disease? Now this is part of the reason CM's get a bad rep
Gnuut
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:56 am
#10
DEVs haven't stated that pois/disease incap is working as intended or not. Till then I'll use what I got.
jfang
Mon Jun 28, 2004 9:15 am
#11
Gnuut wrote:
Jfang are you taking into account a players regeneration?
Yes, I am. If a person had 0 willpower (and didn't regenerate any mind), if a poison got the person to 1 mind there would be no danger from a disease incapping that person, as the disease would never do damage.
The problem is that a person's willpower keeps the mind regenerating, so the disease gets several chances to tick the person to 1 mind point. And one of those times, it misses... All the poison does is keep the person in "disease can tick to 1 point" range, and I expect an extremely low willpower, a BH spamming eyeshot with a weak pistol, or several other thing could keep the mind pool in that range and also cause the "poison-disease incap" issue to occur, as I think (as mentioned in the post) that it's really a "disease incap" issue. If this is the case, it certainly is an (unconfirmed by devs)bug, in that sometimes the disease incapps and sometimes it stops at 1 mind point...
Secondarily, if my hypothesis about having something like 3.78 mind so the disease rounds and ticks for 4 damage is true, the willpower would affect that calculation as well. If the tick time and healing rate were divisors of each other, they might stay "in sync" and never cause an incap.
DoctorGriggs
Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:15 am
#12
Gnuut wrote:DEVs haven't stated that pois/disease incap is working as intended or not. Till then I'll use what I got.
They have - they tried to fix it several times. Look in the patch notes for publish 6 I believe.
The poison/disease combo is NOT supposed to incap anymore and the fact that you would use something like that is just shameful.
jkray8472
Tue Jun 29, 2004 8:21 am
#13
DoctorGriggs wrote:
Gnuut wrote:DEVs haven't stated that pois/disease incap is working as intended or not. Till then I'll use what I got.
They have - they tried to fix it several times. Look in the patch notes for publish 6 I believe.
The poison/disease combo is NOT supposed to incap anymore and the fact that you would use something like that is just shameful.
Lol, shame on commandos for using their flame dot to incap/kill stuff...
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