Cities And Housing Archive
Thread: patch13 Items stored in craft stations are now counting in house number of items Nerf or Bug ?
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MeciniaLua
Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:29 am
#14
Phizz127 wrote:
I don't know what the problem is with me but when I logged in instead of 10 full lots I had 9. I only have 2 houses, a large and a small, 1 small factorie and a multi passenger ship... doesn't make sense. Don't have any crafting stations in my house either.
Okay first the multi passenger ship no longer takes a lot.
Also if you run and pay maintanace into your large house it will take 5 lots instead of 6.
So you will be using 8 lots with 2 more to place to do other things with.
Resetgun
Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:10 am
#15
It was fix.
Now when we have this bug fixed and enough item space to house decoration (for noncrafters at least), wecan start talking about how to solve crafter resource/product storage problem.
And no... I don't think that using vendors is right way to solve this problem. Maybe crafters should get special "crafter storage" where they can store resources and items. "Crafter storage" could store more items when crafter have more crafting related skills. For example: novice artisan could store25 items to this storage, master artisan 500 items and master artisan + master armorsmith 1500 items...
Let's create new thread for this discussion...
Message Edited by Resetgun on 02-11-2005 05:18 AM
player-xyz
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:44 am
#16
I have no ability to understand why they "fixed" this without putting this into the publish notes. I just recently set up two crafting stations in a small house, about 75 items each, and was able to actually craft weapons fairly quickly with minimal pain. Before I set up my crafting stations, I checked the forums, checked the pub notes, etc., just to see if there was any mention of this beng a bug, exploit, or planned "fix" coming. Not a word (that I could find).
There is absolutley NO REASON why this "fix" was not announced as part of Publish 13. In addition, they have now made it harder for me to craft. Yes, some people have really abused this.For me, I willnot have to destroy a single item.
I have 7 factores, 2 houses, and merchant skills.The resources and subs Ijust moved into my crafting stations can now be put back on a vendor,put in a factory, or I can putdown a few more houses and store items in houses (and pick up factories). Then, when I need to craft something, I can run around to my houses, looking for the right resource. If I use factories for storage, I have the added thrillof random red spawns springing up and stopping me from getting to the resources (yes, my factories are within a city limit).
The direct and statement from SWG, "This was a bug and it is now fixed"is an uncompromising tone delivered to its' customers. A suggestion to SWG for future such actions -- think about the impact of your"fixes". Sure, you have now "nerfed" abusers who had 3000 items in a small house. But in doing so, you have made the game more unplayable for me (and I assume others like me, but not everyone).If SWG had "fixed' this bug, and in addition made crafting and managing of resources somehow easier, I would not mind. Instead, my choice is to spend another evening re-organizing resources, or not. I choose not!
Enjoy the game, all. I play for fun, and SWG has made the game a chore, and that is inexcusable.
Deacon32
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:31 am
#17
I'm not seeing the issue here. I too am a crafter, and as such, I'm not at ALL understanding why you think you need to have all of your resources and components stuffed into a hopper. What makes you feel you need over 1000 components at hand at all times? Your schematic is for 1000 uses - Doesn't mean you HAVE to manufacture all of them at once. Run small batches, and use as needed.
well i dont know what kind of crafter you are, but i have been doing it since i started SWG. thats over 18 months of resources i have collected, and i do not keep all my components in my stations, just resources. i only keep 1 crate of each component near the station for schematics. on my server, resources can go as high as 250 cpu, and crafting competition is fierce. if you did as much crafting as i do, you would see a problem this "fix" has caused. armorsmith, weaponsmith and especially droid engineer are hit hard by this fix, which i have 2 of those professions along with chef, doctor, tailor and shipwright(across 4 toons). its not about how many i want to keep, its about how many i need to keep that i do not have room for. and no, i do not have all the resources for my professions in one house, they each have thier own shop. so before you comment on my reasons, at least be at my level of crafting ability. sorry to be a jerk, but this "fix" has been put in before with horrible results, before you played the game.
Maybe I'm different - I get by with 1 factory and 2 houses, and this takes care of all the space needs I have EVER had. 1 house is decorated as a workshop, and has all the resources I use on a REGULAR basis at hand. The rest I put up on a vendor (With legitimate prices, if a tad higher priced than other people) in the same locale. Big hint - I don't advertise it's location on Planetary, nor is it on my Sig. Nobody knows it exists, and since the prices are legitimate, I'd never care if someone bought from it if they DID find it. The key is to NOT make a vendor that can be construed as a "Storage" vendor. On my server, resources cap at about 6cpu - Mine are up at 7cpu.. Buy if ya want em. Otherwise, they are there at hand for me if i need them. My second house, since I see you are a Shipwright, is my RE factory. Amazing how little space it actually takes if you keep specific items you are saving for a "perfect" item in one spot, and use the cast offs to RE for disks.
My point is, there's really no reason to need storage space for 2000 - 5000 items.
well i dont know what kind of crafter you are, but i have been doing it since i started SWG. thats over 18 months of resources i have collected, and i do not keep all my components in my stations, just resources. i only keep 1 crate of each component near the station for schematics. on my server, resources can go as high as 250 cpu, and crafting competition is fierce. if you did as much crafting as i do, you would see a problem this "fix" has caused. armorsmith, weaponsmith and especially droid engineer are hit hard by this fix, which i have 2 of those professions along with chef, doctor, tailor and shipwright(across 4 toons). its not about how many i want to keep, its about how many i need to keep that i do not have room for. and no, i do not have all the resources for my professions in one house, they each have thier own shop. so before you comment on my reasons, at least be at my level of crafting ability. sorry to be a jerk, but this "fix" has been put in before with horrible results, before you played the game.
benskywalker1
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:54 am
#18
I am no longer a crafter but I was at one time. Especially when it came to Droid Engineer. I can see how some people would have been affected by this, but it did not affect as many people as everyone makes it out. As a guild we have many storage houses and have our items seperated out. When this isn't the case we have the items left in our factories and a few extra minutes to get the items needed and then do our crafting. Again I see both sides here, but I remember awhile back the Devs saying that this wasn't right. I mean think about it. Why can I put a crafting station in the house to hold however many items when I can't put a backpack in the house to hold however many items or a chest or an armoire? Logic would suggest that the items in the stations would count towards house items although an announcement or warning would have probably been nice.
Scoooter
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:57 am
#19
Deacon32 wrote:
I'm not seeing the issue here. I too am a crafter, and as such, I'm not at ALL understanding why you think you need to have all of your resources and components stuffed into a hopper. What makes you feel you need over 1000 components at hand at all times? Your schematic is for 1000 uses - Doesn't mean you HAVE to manufacture all of them at once. Run small batches, and use as needed.
Maybe I'm different - I get by with 1 factory and 2 houses, and this takes care of all the space needs I have EVER had. 1 house is decorated as a workshop, and has all the resources I use on a REGULAR basis at hand. The rest I put up on a vendor (With legitimate prices, if a tad higher priced than other people) in the same locale. Big hint - I don't advertise it's location on Planetary, nor is it on my Sig. Nobody knows it exists, and since the prices are legitimate, I'd never care if someone bought from it if they DID find it. The key is to NOT make a vendor that can be construed as a "Storage" vendor. On my server, resources cap at about 6cpu - Mine are up at 7cpu.. Buy if ya want em. Otherwise, they are there at hand for me if i need them. My second house, since I see you are a Shipwright, is my RE factory. Amazing how little space it actually takes if you keep specific items you are saving for a "perfect" item in one spot, and use the cast offs to RE for disks.
My point is, there's really no reason to need storage space for 2000 - 5000 items.
well i dont know what kind of crafter you are, but i have been doing it since i started SWG. thats over 18 months of resources i have collected, and i do not keep all my components in my stations, just resources. i only keep 1 crate of each component near the station for schematics. on my server, resources can go as high as 250 cpu, and crafting competition is fierce. if you did as much crafting as i do, you would see a problem this "fix" has caused. armorsmith, weaponsmith and especially droid engineer are hit hard by this fix, which i have 2 of those professions along with chef, doctor, tailor and shipwright(across 4 toons). its not about how many i want to keep, its about how many i need to keep that i do not have room for. and no, i do not have all the resources for my professions in one house, they each have thier own shop. so before you comment on my reasons, at least be at my level of crafting ability. sorry to be a jerk, but this "fix" has been put in before with horrible results, before you played the game.
I was a crafter for 12 months and I know people who have been crafters from day one that saw ne need to exploit a bug.
If you need to horde that much then drop houses.
It is blatently obvious that it was a bug.
For your tons that do not require quality resource *tailor and some of SW) I suggest you craft the recyclers and combine stacks of stuff
The past fix you are talking about was bugged. If you recall after they did it you could not open your hopper so they rolled it back immediatly. It also should show you this was never an intended thing to be done.
player-xyz
Fri Feb 11, 2005 11:55 am
#20
There are many "bugs" and"exploits"in the game. LOT SWAPS, ANYONE? Fight clubs?
I checked the forums. I didn't load my house with thousands of items. I just wanted an easy way to have access to about 150 items. Seems like a very solvable problem. Yes, I know, I could place another house. They raised the limit. Yippee. That just means I have to take stuff off my vendor, move it to another house, put it on the vendor, blah, blah, blah.I've done it before, I won't do it again. Instead of making me, the consumer, spend hours re-arranging items, I would expect th supplier to provide us with the tools to do so in an efficient and relatively painless manner. Instead, they gave us nothing, and noted that "A CSR will not move items for you." Haha, I'm sure they wouldn't.
There are two reasons to be upset:
1) Why didn't SWG put this in the release notes?
2) What are they planning on doing to make crafting less tedious, not more tedious?
OK, maybe some of you are super organized know which house stores which resource, or which factory has which components, etc., etc., etc. Hell, maybe you super crafters are just a lot smarter than I. Or maybe you have more time to spend shuffling resources around.
I don't. I don't appreciate hiding such a major change. I don't appreciate the fact that the only recourse I have is to address the issue in a public forum, rather than actually interacting with someone who can make a difference. I don't appreciate the fact that our correspondent is "uplining" the "decay kit issue" because it affects him, but the storage issue presumably doesn't. I don't appreciate the fact that I could swap a big house with someone and my problems are solved. Or open another account.
I would appreciate a good interface and method for organizing all the resources, and honest disclosure about pending changes. Instead, we received neither. And that is why I, as a consumer, can choose what to do. For those of you happy with SWG's behaviour, enjoy. When quiting a game gives me more enjoyment, it's not a very difficult decision.
Scoooter
Fri Feb 11, 2005 12:08 pm
#21
player-xyz wrote:
There are many "bugs" and"exploits"in the game. LOT SWAPS, ANYONE? Fight clubs?
I checked the forums. I didn't load my house with thousands of items. I just wanted an easy way to have access to about 150 items. Seems like a very solvable problem. Yes, I know, I could place another house. They raised the limit. Yippee. That just means I have to take stuff off my vendor, move it to another house, put it on the vendor, blah, blah, blah.I've done it before, I won't do it again. Instead of making me, the consumer, spend hours re-arranging items, I would expect th supplier to provide us with the tools to do so in an efficient and relatively painless manner. Instead, they gave us nothing, and noted that "A CSR will not move items for you." Haha, I'm sure they wouldn't.
There are two reasons to be upset:
1) Why didn't SWG put this in the release notes?
2) What are they planning on doing to make crafting less tedious, not more tedious?
OK, maybe some of you are super organized know which house stores which resource, or which factory has which components, etc., etc., etc. Hell, maybe you super crafters are just a lot smarter than I. Or maybe you have more time to spend shuffling resources around.
I don't. I don't appreciate hiding such a major change. I don't appreciate the fact that the only recourse I have is to address the issue in a public forum, rather than actually interacting with someone who can make a difference. I don't appreciate the fact that our correspondent is "uplining" the "decay kit issue" because it affects him, but the storage issue presumably doesn't. I don't appreciate the fact that I could swap a big house with someone and my problems are solved. Or open another account.
I would appreciate a good interface and method for organizing all the resources, and honest disclosure about pending changes. Instead, we received neither. And that is why I, as a consumer, can choose what to do. For those of you happy with SWG's behaviour, enjoy. When quiting a game gives me more enjoyment, it's not a very difficult decision.
They have missed things in the release notes before. It happens when mixing the changes form one test center install or another or it just gets missed. It doesnt happen that often to get so upset about it.
Because ethey attemted to fix this once as you even pointed out you should not be so suprised it finally got fixed.
You can easlily organize you resource. And if interface changes are required post about that in the appropriate forum.
If it makes you so sad you can no longer do something that was no longer intended to be done that you want to quit. Then maybe that is the best option for you.
I for one know a crafter that has been doing this "station bug" for a year. He knows it will go away and he knew it wasnt supposed to be done just like you. but his attitude is more "gravy train is over hehe" and is dealing with it.
Phaelyn
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:02 am
#23
Deacon32 wrote:
well i dont know what kind of crafter you are, but i have been doing it since i started SWG. thats over 18 months of resources i have collected, and i do not keep all my components in my stations, just resources. i only keep 1 crate of each component near the station for schematics. on my server, resources can go as high as 250 cpu, and crafting competition is fierce. if you did as much crafting as i do, you would see a problem this "fix" has caused. armorsmith, weaponsmith and especially droid engineer are hit hard by this fix, which i have 2 of those professions along with chef, doctor, tailor and shipwright(across 4 toons). its not about how many i want to keep, its about how many i need to keep that i do not have room for. and no, i do not have all the resources for my professions in one house, they each have thier own shop. so before you comment on my reasons, at least be at my level of crafting ability. sorry to be a jerk, but this "fix" has been put in before with horrible results, before you played the game.
Don't get me wrong - I honestly feel your pain, as I am a hoarder of resources myself. But the system in any MMORPG is Risk vs Reward - You took the risk of this happening, and your reward for quite awhile was that it worked. My risk is putting the resources on my Vendor. The prices on them isn't utterly ridiculous, so it's conceivable someone can come in and buy them out from under me. this keeps it from being a Storage vendor, which is a form of exploit. So, my Risk/Reward is the Vendor.
I was a weaponsmith, so i *do* know how nice it is to have components close at hand. Shipwright isn't THAT far removed, in that we need resources along the amounts of an Architect. All I intended to point out is that there are always possibilities, and ways to cope.
Varousk
Sat Feb 12, 2005 9:40 am
#24
Hi,
I have been playing SWG since August. I have been a crafter the entire time. About 5 weeks into playing I heard that using crafting stations for items saved house space. Actaully before I was told about this I was clueless that the stations even had
a hopper in them at all. But to be honest I thought about this. A house can hold 150 items, a bit sparse for decorating but I could understand it with lag/latency concerns. A hopper is rated at 100 items, and I thought if the creators of the game intended the hopper to count against the house total, 100 would be pretty high. Most other items that can hold other items that you place in a house cap out much lower. Then I also thought, who uses stations, crafters thats who. As I progressed into weaponsmith I realized to have resources to craft all the stuff needed, you need lots of resources. So much so that one would need to use all lots for houses just to store it all. To me, storing all items in a station was a bug, storing resources that
can be used to craft an Item was intentional. So I carried on and did not really worry about things.
Some have said this was brought about by people using factories, stations, vendors, to store things in an exploitative manner. Other exploits have been posted in the holocron, as dont do this, I have checked it a few times before now and this issue has not present. The devs have done a great job of cleaning up the programming behind many things, and I am fully aware people have abused many, many things in the past. But with each thing you fix, someone should be thinking. Why are players doing this, does doing this harm other players or are they just using a work around to solve some other problem. If so, do we need to address this other problem?
In this case, the system in place to storing a player's possessions was and is grossly lacking, more so for crafters. Many solved this problem by buying additional accounts. Many solved this by swapping lots with players on other servers. Many solved this by not being a crafter. The players, as all end users will do, found band-aids to help them fix the problem. One was putting packs on Vendors. One was putting items (all kinds) into factories. One was putting items into crafting stations.
Did these bugs need fixed? -->Yes.
But, and its a big BUT, some sort of alternative solution needed to be put into place first. The dev's have said they will make all loot items stackable, is that here yet? No. Does the current model allow for the average player's need? No.
I always like to say, if you cant contribute to the solution be quiet. So here are ideas that pop into my skull.
#1 - Stations dont count against a house item limit, BUT, you can only put resources into them.
#2 - Remove house item limits entirely, and charge house maintenance based upon the item count present.
#3 - Create a new Deed, Storage Unit. That can come in say S,M,L sizes that are say 1,2,3 lots respectivly and hold 200,400,600 items respecitvly
#4 - Not just loot, make ALL ITEMS STACK if they are the exact same item. Good example of this, weapon powerups. I make them 1000 at a pass, which is 100 crates. This would be sooooo cool if this would count as 1 item.
#5 - Increase resource stack limit to 1,000,000 instead of 100,000.
#6 - Allow vendors to be used for storage. You can now, but it is frowned upon. With this, increase vendor item counts granted.
#7 - Allow all loot schematics to work like the loot kits, where you can place items into them and the kit still only counts as one item while you wait to aquire the other items
#8 - Triple house item count limits.
#9 - Remove all sub-components from crafted items, use resources only
#10 - Add in storage crate items you can drop in your house, that are designed to not count against house total, but have other restrictions (A good one would be you can only open and close it once a day).
#11 - Add in mass and volume to all items, have house limits be determined by this calculation, not sheer item count.
I know myself, I have applied a little of all the band-aids out there. I have 2 accounts. I have 20 lots swapped with someone from another server. I store excess resources in my facotories, I leave completed crates in factories as long as possible. I have used vendors for storage in the past. I have items in crafting stations. The last time I moved all my stuff *ugh the nightmares* I calculated I had roughly 5000 items. Since then I have aquired more than I have sold/destroyed/used. Personally I do not know what I will do if something is not done to help alleviate this. Most likely I will delete many things I can do without, I know I have 20 copper batteries I was holding to see what they were used for. I will swap even more lots, and I will craft things that require massive sub-parts much less often. I will also likely spend the SP and master merchant on both my characters, and simply put stuff up for sale, and if I wind up needing it, removing the items as needed.
Thank you SOE for the bug fixes, but can we please get the storage capacity of players addressed now. And some sort of official reply beyond (CSRs will not respond to tickets about this) please.
Thanks,
Varousk on Radiant
Master Weaponsmith, Master Artisan. Soon to be Master Merchant.
I have been playing SWG since August. I have been a crafter the entire time. About 5 weeks into playing I heard that using crafting stations for items saved house space. Actaully before I was told about this I was clueless that the stations even had
a hopper in them at all. But to be honest I thought about this. A house can hold 150 items, a bit sparse for decorating but I could understand it with lag/latency concerns. A hopper is rated at 100 items, and I thought if the creators of the game intended the hopper to count against the house total, 100 would be pretty high. Most other items that can hold other items that you place in a house cap out much lower. Then I also thought, who uses stations, crafters thats who. As I progressed into weaponsmith I realized to have resources to craft all the stuff needed, you need lots of resources. So much so that one would need to use all lots for houses just to store it all. To me, storing all items in a station was a bug, storing resources that
can be used to craft an Item was intentional. So I carried on and did not really worry about things.
Some have said this was brought about by people using factories, stations, vendors, to store things in an exploitative manner. Other exploits have been posted in the holocron, as dont do this, I have checked it a few times before now and this issue has not present. The devs have done a great job of cleaning up the programming behind many things, and I am fully aware people have abused many, many things in the past. But with each thing you fix, someone should be thinking. Why are players doing this, does doing this harm other players or are they just using a work around to solve some other problem. If so, do we need to address this other problem?
In this case, the system in place to storing a player's possessions was and is grossly lacking, more so for crafters. Many solved this problem by buying additional accounts. Many solved this by swapping lots with players on other servers. Many solved this by not being a crafter. The players, as all end users will do, found band-aids to help them fix the problem. One was putting packs on Vendors. One was putting items (all kinds) into factories. One was putting items into crafting stations.
Did these bugs need fixed? -->Yes.
But, and its a big BUT, some sort of alternative solution needed to be put into place first. The dev's have said they will make all loot items stackable, is that here yet? No. Does the current model allow for the average player's need? No.
I always like to say, if you cant contribute to the solution be quiet. So here are ideas that pop into my skull.
#1 - Stations dont count against a house item limit, BUT, you can only put resources into them.
#2 - Remove house item limits entirely, and charge house maintenance based upon the item count present.
#3 - Create a new Deed, Storage Unit. That can come in say S,M,L sizes that are say 1,2,3 lots respectivly and hold 200,400,600 items respecitvly
#4 - Not just loot, make ALL ITEMS STACK if they are the exact same item. Good example of this, weapon powerups. I make them 1000 at a pass, which is 100 crates. This would be sooooo cool if this would count as 1 item.
#5 - Increase resource stack limit to 1,000,000 instead of 100,000.
#6 - Allow vendors to be used for storage. You can now, but it is frowned upon. With this, increase vendor item counts granted.
#7 - Allow all loot schematics to work like the loot kits, where you can place items into them and the kit still only counts as one item while you wait to aquire the other items
#8 - Triple house item count limits.
#9 - Remove all sub-components from crafted items, use resources only
#10 - Add in storage crate items you can drop in your house, that are designed to not count against house total, but have other restrictions (A good one would be you can only open and close it once a day).
#11 - Add in mass and volume to all items, have house limits be determined by this calculation, not sheer item count.
I know myself, I have applied a little of all the band-aids out there. I have 2 accounts. I have 20 lots swapped with someone from another server. I store excess resources in my facotories, I leave completed crates in factories as long as possible. I have used vendors for storage in the past. I have items in crafting stations. The last time I moved all my stuff *ugh the nightmares* I calculated I had roughly 5000 items. Since then I have aquired more than I have sold/destroyed/used. Personally I do not know what I will do if something is not done to help alleviate this. Most likely I will delete many things I can do without, I know I have 20 copper batteries I was holding to see what they were used for. I will swap even more lots, and I will craft things that require massive sub-parts much less often. I will also likely spend the SP and master merchant on both my characters, and simply put stuff up for sale, and if I wind up needing it, removing the items as needed.
Thank you SOE for the bug fixes, but can we please get the storage capacity of players addressed now. And some sort of official reply beyond (CSRs will not respond to tickets about this) please.
Thanks,
Varousk on Radiant
Master Weaponsmith, Master Artisan. Soon to be Master Merchant.
ussasx
Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:21 am
#25
Why on earth do you have some 5000 items?
Agreed the crafting skills require a large number of resources ( i myself am a weaponsmith and architect) however with monitering there is no way of the new item counts causing a problem! How many different resource containers holding the same resource do you have? i keep all my resources in Armoires holding 50 resource blocks each. one contains high OQ metals another low OQ one contains ore and gemstone another contains everything else. That is 150 items i can store - My storge limit in a small house??
I then have a small naboo style 2 house (ONLY 1 LOT) in which i have crafting stations - no need to seriously overpile hoppers.
Now it does not take me minutes etc to collect resources - the houses are next door!
if i have a resource container that only has a small amount of units, bin it and replace with another that has a large amount!
There is a reason we cannot have hundreds of thousands of items! imagine if everyone on the server had houses full with 10000 items? it would take me five minutes to walk a hundred yards because the server was having to relay to me hundreds of thousands of items a minute!!
And without the limits people will just pile stuff up and pile it up! how will they ever know exactly what they have?
Just my 5 credits worth of thought!
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