Cities And Housing Archive
Thread: Politican Convention reguarding Foot Print Expansion!!!
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drachenfire
Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:11 pm
#1
Attention All Politicans effected by the recent foot print expansion of medium Naboo neo-classical homes.
Let us all network with other mayors and politicans effected by the foot print expansion and place our concerns on the forums! We are the stewards of our communities, and we are the ones to atempt to craft and forge cities with such limiting tools! THIS takes a tool away from us!
Speak to other mayors, set meetings, encourage them to post here and on the Housing and Cities forums.
Let the Politicans Unite!
CourtJester73
Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:16 pm
#2
If you weren't aware, this actually fixes an exploit people used to make walled cities by placing them right next to each other. Was never meant to happen and now it's fixed.
Balrozgul
Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:54 pm
#3
Im tempted to write that no politician has ever heard of this so called exploit but I wont sink to that level. Yes, we KNOW that there was an issue with walls being created around bases and other "content." The problem is that using them for that reason was an exploit, using them to create streets or other close zones was not. I repeat, THIS FUNCTION WAS NO EXPLOIT. The fix that they've proposed for one improper use clearly INFRINGES upon the flexibility of the other proper function. This is not a fix that needed to be made, many other compromises were clearly possible and yet here we are with ruined cities and unfulfillable dreams. Call for fixes if you must, but we politicians will band together and fight this issue to the bitter end.
GlargTheKelfn
Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:59 am
#4
as i understand it, the naboo houses now use the smae size as any other house. what is the problem? is it forcing you to pick up the existing houses or something?
if the problem is just that a new house doesn't fit where an old one did, well that was the point. is this just about being able to add more houses to the city where you want them, instead of how they fit now?
if the problem is just that a new house doesn't fit where an old one did, well that was the point. is this just about being able to add more houses to the city where you want them, instead of how they fit now?
Slysix
Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:44 am
#5
I think they're trying to avoid the urban sprawl. City beuatification become increasingly difficult when the housing takes up more space. Less room for park structures and such.
Possible solution to increasing city population with out increasing land usage
Possible solution to increasing city population with out increasing land usage
coronula
Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:30 am
#6
GlargTheKelfn wrote:
as i understand it, the naboo houses now use the smae size as any other house. what is the problem? is it forcing you to pick up the existing houses or something?
if the problem is just that a new house doesn't fit where an old one did, well that was the point. is this just about being able to add more houses to the city where you want them, instead of how they fit now?
This is the best point I have read yet. Can anyone tell us how the footprint of a medium naboo house compares to the footprint of all of the other medium houses? In all of the cities I have been to without naboo houses there is a generous space between all medium houses. Either those other medium houses are smaller than naboo mediums or their footprint is larger.
QuiJonOz
Sat Jul 02, 2005 7:38 am
#7
Instead of changing the footprint, they should just use the fix for already placed houses that lets players run between the houses. Personally, I liked being able to have medium naboos lined up on sides of streets.
Balrozgul
Sat Jul 02, 2005 8:21 am
#8
as i understand it, the naboo houses now use the smae size as any other house. what is the problem? is it forcing you to pick up the existing houses or something?
if the problem is just that a new house doesn't fit where an old one did, well that was the point. is this just about being able to add more houses to the city where you want them, instead of how they fit now?
if the problem is just that a new house doesn't fit where an old one did, well that was the point. is this just about being able to add more houses to the city where you want them, instead of how they fit now?
This is kind of a broad statement to make without analyzing anything else that has been said on this issue. Previously, here were some houses you might expect to see in a city:
Small Naboo (Round) : 3x4
Small Naboo (Square) : 3x4
Medium Naboo : 3x4
Small Generic: 3x4
Medium Generic 3x4
Small Tatooine: 3x4
Medium Tatooine: 5x5
Please note that the medium tatooine house is a larger physical structure than either the medium naboo or the medium generic houses and that is why it is larger than either one of those two, or at least... it was larger.
Currently the medium naboo house is 5x6. For those of you who dont understand the implications of the math, that means they simply took the old footprint and added one empty line around the entire thing. On the most simplistic level, yes, that was their intention to make sure that we couldn't replace old medium naboo spaces with new medium naboo. But it is not as simple as that. Because to accomodate the fact that they couldn't remove existing structures neatly packed into organized streets and zones, any medium naboo that is touching anything on one side will get squeezed out another side in double the no-build zone. So not only can we not replace that old medium naboo with a new medium naboo, we cannot replace it with a small naboo or a small generic or anything, since the existing medium naboos will "squeeze" their overlap into the newly opened area.
Consider that you have a single layer row of medium naboo houses... say six of them in a row.... and the middle house owner moves out. Theres now space for a new resident to move into the city right? Well no... in order to put a new house in that position you will also have to demolish the two existing medium naboos on either side of it. So you've just lost three housing locations so you can put in ONE house. In the event that this is a double row, with back to back naboo houses, youll have to destroy six houses in order to place down one medium naboo house. So we civil engineers have a few choices to make... one is to tear down every existing medium naboo in our cities and ban their future use as inefficient. Obviously this has huge implications on a city of a metropolis level. The other choice is to take this issue to the public and hope that we can get the devs to change their mind on this issue. Other compromises are possible but are not even being considered.
JanuHull
Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:19 am
#9
Sorry, but this is a bug fix, if it just so happened your city, however innocent or attractive it was, just happened to get the shaft, tough. All this convention is going to be is some kind of cry-in about the fix.
Balrozgul
Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:27 am
#10
You can call it a cry in if you want, thats your prerogative. But the fact is that we will continue to push this fight one way or the other, losing battle or no. I dont care that this is a bug fix, what I care about is the EXTENT of the bug fix. The medium naboo house now has the largest footprint of all the medium houses yet it is not the largest physical structure amongst them.... this makes no sense. This is overkill and any real politician can see that immediately. If you are not a politician then this issue does not concern you, as you only have to then think about your own house. Give pause to the people who have to think about 50, 100, 150 houses before you pass judgement on them. This is not a simple issue of limiting our future construction it is an issue of us having to tear down our existing cities and rebuilding them from scratch. This needent be the case if we can get the devs to talk about alternatives.
JargonScott
Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:44 am
#11
Balrozgul wrote:
Currently the medium naboo house is 5x6. For those of you who dont understand the implications of the math, that means they simply took the old footprint and added one empty line around the entire thing. On the most simplistic level, yes, that was their intention to make sure that we couldn't replace old medium naboo spaces with new medium naboo. But it is not as simple as that. Because to accomodate the fact that they couldn't remove existing structures neatly packed into organized streets and zones, any medium naboo that is touching anything on one side will get squeezed out another side in double the no-build zone. So not only can we not replace that old medium naboo with a new medium naboo, we cannot replace it with a small naboo or a small generic or anything, since the existing medium naboos will "squeeze" their overlap into the newly opened area.
Yup. I'm not sure many people realize this. What you're left with is a 1x3 strip of building area....the equivalent of 3 personal harvies lined up in a row.
What if instead of the current 'fix', the actual artwork of the house changes. Eachside of the house would shrink in .5 squares. This would create a 1 square gap in between any medium Naboo houses that were placed adjacent to each other.
JanuHull
Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:06 pm
#12
Balrozgul wrote:
You can call it a cry in if you want, thats your prerogative. But the fact is that we will continue to push this fight one way or the other, losing battle or no. I dont care that this is a bug fix, what I care about is the EXTENT of the bug fix. The medium naboo house now has the largest footprint of all the medium houses yet it is not the largest physical structure amongst them.... this makes no sense. This is overkill and any real politician can see that immediately. If you are not a politician then this issue does not concern you, as you only have to then think about your own house. Give pause to the people who have to think about 50, 100, 150 houses before you pass judgement on them. This is not a simple issue of limiting our future construction it is an issue of us having to tear down our existing cities and rebuilding them from scratch. This needent be the case if we can get the devs to talk about alternatives.
Since someone saw fit to delete my other response to you, I'll give you the short version.
Lesson 1: I've been a Politician for over a year.
Lesson 2: It is a cry-in, it will accomplish nothing.
Lesson 3: There are alternatives, turn off the tears and turn your brain on again.
Balrozgul
Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:28 pm
#13
Given the attitude you've been displaying in general, I am not in the least surprised that youve had a post deleted. Meanwhile if my posts are so unwelcome why isn't someone deleting mine instead of yours? Discussion is a part of the boards, if what I am doing is offensive to you... tough, shrug your shoulders and move on to the next issue.
Lesson 1: I've been a Politician for over a year.
And? Post a schematic for your city before you compare what you do to what I do.
Lesson 2: It is a cry-in, it will accomplish nothing.
So you're saying that no developer change has ever been rolled back or altered? Im starting to doubt that youve actually been PLAYING for a year.
Lesson 3: There are alternatives, turn off the tears and turn your brain on again.
Sorry, but Bush-style politics dont work on me. Attempting to belittle or demean me for simply discussing this issue will not get you the results you are looking for. I recognize that you are the type of person who expects to always be right, but your views are not the only ones to consider here. Take a quick tour of the cities on Dantooine, Rori and Naboo to see the potential impact. And then, because its sure to happen, you might as well also visit Corellia, Talus, Lok, and Tatooine since the medium generic is the next issue that will be dealt with here.
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