Chef Archive

I was a little disappointed with the HAM buffs in the chef tree as they were coming out, but I thought I'd quantify my thoughts before I make a nerf claim.

Not counting the new pet buffs, there are 5 categories of revamped chef buffs
Artisan Primary, Artisan Pool Drain, Pool Drain Food, "Super Buff" food, and total HAM Drinks

I did a little math on the experimentation results, and got thoerstical max and mins for Filling, duration, and amount. I then found a high average, assuming there is 60% experimentation on all 3. Here are my results:

Artisan Primary Food:
Bofa Treats (Health), Blob Candy (Action)
Buff: 36-60(average 50)
Duration: 30-60 minutes (average 45)
Filling: 12-8 (average 10)

This I'll use as my baseline to compare with the chef buffs. I expect chef buffs to at least twice as good as these.

Artisan Pool Drain:
Kanali Wafers (Constitution), Teltier Noodles (Stamina)
Buff: 36-60 (average 50)
Duration: 30-60 min (average 50)
Filling: 12-8 (average 10)

Pool Drain Food:
Ahrisa(Focus), Gruuvan Shaal(Strength), Scrimpi(Quickness)
Buff: 150-250 (Average 200)
Duration: 30-60 min (Average 50)
Filling: 35-25 (Average 30)

"Super Buff" Food:
Kiwik Clusjo Swirl (Qui, Sta), Vagnerian Canape (Foc, Will), WonWon (Str, Con)
Buff: 350-600 (average 500)
Duration: 3-6 min (average 5)
Filling: Bad Data (educated guess average 75)

HAM Drink Buffs:
Accarragm(Act, Qui, Sta), Garrmorl(H, Str, Con), Vasarian Brandy(M, Foc, Will)
Buff: 110-180 (average 150)
Duration: 30-60 (average 50)
Filling: 46-32 (average 40)

Okay, now to the analysis. HAM Drink buffs are, on average 3x stronger, last the same amount of time, buff 3x more stats, are 4x more filling and last just as long. Overall that leads to:

3 x 1 x 3 / 4 = 1.50 or 50% better than artisan food.
That's not double.

For the rest:
Artisan Primary: Baseline
Artisan Pool Drain: Same
Pool Drain Food: 33% Better
HAM Drinks: 50% Better
Uber Food: 60% worse

That's right, not only do the buff get only marginally better, some get even worse.

Uber Food needs to buff 2000, or last 15 minutes in order to even keep up with artisan food.

So, Chef buffs need to increase, but not much. 20 HAM here and there, or reduce filling some would make me happy, and make everyone else happier as well.

New Breath of Heaven:
Buff: 220-360 (average 300)
Duration: 10-20 min (average 15)
Filling: 30-20 (average 24)

Overall 6 / 3 / 2.5 * 3 = 2.4!

140% Better, now that's good eating.

Ack, forgot. Couldn't get this to more than 1 use with 47% experimentation (Best my resources would provide) and a Large Glass.

1 use with a large glass??? grrr another case of all chefs make it the same

I'd like to see an analysis of the new buffs using the old buffs as a basis of comparison.

It'd be great if you and the Mathmagician, by whom I mean Kriles,took some time to analyze one by one the new stat buffs tobuffs in the old system. It'd be good to see some hard, fast data by which to judge this stuff. Comparing to artisan food is interesting enough ... but I only care that the chef foods are double the artisan foods if that makes the chef foods double the old buffs.

Hero

~

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Ezran wrote:
Ack, forgot. Couldn't get this to more than 1 use with 47% experimentation (Best my resources would provide) and a Large Glass.

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Same here, I wasted a couple of large glasses figuring this out as well. Don't remember the final exp % though.

I don't know if it's already been mentioned cause there's a LOT of posts to read....but it would be nice to have some indication on the drink recipes as to whether larger containers will improve the final product or not. Since Large Glasses are currently WAY overcosted in resources, I'd like to know which recipes it'll actually be useful for rather than make the community guess and document it offline.

- Malikor, Master Chef - TestCenter

Hehe, Mathemagician... Ever read "The Phantom Tollbooth"?

Ok, got sidetracked watching "Identity" tonight, but I'll try my best using Ezran's data.

Let's try an easy one: New Ahrisa vs. Old Correllian Fried Ice Cream. Both buff only focus, so we stick with comparing apples and apples for this one:

Ice Cream: I experimented both the soy and carbosyrup to 40% on flavor and nutrition.Using a couple of nutrition experimentation data points, it looks like the nutrition for CFIC on live is 200-550, so lets call it 375. Using all 10 experimentation points, I was only able to get the duration to 420s (13% Flavor). Let's be generous and call that "average". The filling was just over half (I could only eat one), so based on the results of a ruler held to my screen, let's call it 60%.

Digestion rate is something else that needs to be compared, so I sat there munching on carbosyrup to refresh the fill bar until it emptied. Unfortunately, on Live components add to the fill bar, and carbosyrup's a food. I then sat there drinking spice tea until the carbosyrup digested, ate another, and continued drinking until the bar was empty. This took about ten minutes. Considering a 60% TC food would digest in 27 minutes (assuming my 45m for 100% finding remain correct), the ice cream digests 1.5 times quicker than its filling would indicate.

So, if CFIC was in the revamp, it'd have stats: Filling: 60, Nutrition: +200-550 focus (average 375), Flavor: 7m and some odd stat thrown in for its digestion rate.

Using CFIC as the baseline, Ahrisa buffs half as much,buffs the same number of stats,lasts 6.5 times as long (Ezran, your duration range is 30-60, so average should be 45), digests 2/3rds as fast, and has half the filling:

0.5 * 1 * 6.5 * 0.66 / 0.5 = 4.3

So Ahrisa is over four times as good as Fried Ice cream, and is available one level lower (Entrees III for Ahrisa, Desserts IV for Ice cream). And that's giving the Ice cream the benefit of an unreasonably high duration since I doubt anyone spends all their experimentation into Flavor. A more accurate average might've been 6m30s, but that made the math harder.

Now for the one that's registering the most dismay: Angry Fish Surprise....um I mean Angerian Fishak.

Again, I used a couple data points to get a rough range estimate and came up with about 475. This is with aludian and carbosyrup experimented to about 50% nutrition. Let's be generous and ignore the -40 action. I made one with all ten points in flavor, giving a duration of 915s (15m15s). I drank one, and got a filling of about 70%. It digested after about 13 minutes, about 2.5 times as fast at it would if it filled 70 on live.

So, what to compare it to? Let's start with Spiced Tea, which buffs mind 40-60 (average 50), for 30-60m (average 45m) and a filling of 12-8 (average 10).

Using Angerian as a baseline, Spiced Tea buffs 1/10th as much, for 3 times the duration, digests 0.4 as fast, and has 1/7th (0.15)times the filling:

0.1 * 3 * 0.4 / .15 = 0.8

So a novice artisan food is almost as good as our best seller. Now lets compare with Vassarian Brandy.

Brandy buffs Mind, Focus, and Will an average of 150, for an average of 45 minutes, with a filling of 40. This is 1/3rd the buff, for 3 times the duration, digests 0.4 as fast, and has .57 the filling (40/70).

0.33 * 3 * 0.4 / 0.57 = 0.69

Not too good, if you focus exclusively on the mind pool buff, but not necessarily the end of the world. Remember, this is with the highest duration I could getthe Angerian (with the resources I had itended up with 25% Flavor), most of the ones I sell have a 12 minute duration (and they do have a slightly higher filling), which would bump that final "quality index" up to around0.9. I think with the Brandy's additional buffs to the secondaries, it ends up at least 1.5 times as good as Angerian (I think Ezron's x3 is a little bit too much to compare a 3 stat buff to a 1 stat buff).

Feel free to poke holes in the comparison method, if anyone has any better ideas as far as weighting the importance of each category, I'll gladly run the numbers. Here's what I see Angerian's stats in the new system:

+325-600 Mind, 10-15m, Filling1 70-75 (for fullness purposes), Filling2 30 (for digestion time, using 45m to digest a 100% bar)

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Befishburger wrote:

Using everything we can guess about the new HAM sytem, etc., would you catagorize the new Ahrisa as a __great buff?__ If yes, how many others do we have. If no, do we have a single great buff. This is asking you to be more intuitive for a moment. Chef has been a good profession, do these changes make the profession great?

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Darned if I know. The only thing I've been able to gather about the new combat system is that specials reduce the HAM max and will regen faster. So a executing a special attack that costs 100 points when you're 1000/1000 drops you to 900/900,if you use it when you're 500/1000, you're 500/900(kind of like foods with a stat negative). The reduction in your maximum regenerates at a faster rate thanactual pool damage. I would assume that the special move's cost would still be tied to strength/quickness/focus (otherwise those stats are pointless), and the regaining those pointswould probably be based off some multiplier of the regen stats. So special attacks won't damage you, but will make you easier to be killed if you use them faster than your points regenerate.

Pool buffs would then only be really needed to prevent one-shot kills, a rifleman isn't using up his mind points to execute a headshot. Most combat professions seem to be weighted heavily to one pool for their special costs (health for pistol/1-handed, action for carbine/polearms, mind for rifle/2-handed). This probably explains the vertical buffs (Garrmorl and Won-won buff multiple health stats, Accarragm and Kiwik Swirl for action, Vassarian Brandy and Vagnarian Canape for mind). It's especially suggestive that those come in food/drink pairs, so you can take one of each on an empty stomach and not have to worry about over-filling.

Truthfully, I think the revamp is moving chefs away from stat buffs towards skills, resists, and unique bonuses (damage reduction looks especially nice). I go over a lot of my impressions on these in SV's poll thread.

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Oh, btw, when you left me you were but the learner, now you are the Master. *wink*

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{just to explain the joke, Hero was the one who graciously trained my last Entrees box and Master Chef because I couldn't afford the NPC trainer}

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The telling comparison is between the new Spiced Tea and the old Fishak. You've determined that the new Chef foods only tend to come out about 1.5x better than the new Artisan foods

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But you are missing one important fact: Chef Foods can take medium and heavy BE enhancers while Artisan Foods only take light. Since some posters have reported that BE effects can be huge, we should probably compare the effects taking into account BE additives. Yes, I know they are not used a lot ATM (I'm a Chef/BE on Gorath and don't use them myself), but they probably will be.

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NikkiT wrote:

I'm a Chef/BE on Gorath and don't use them myself

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*laugh* its ok jerecki. Its just a little class dependency to spread the credits around remember