Chef Archive

I have no interest whatsoever in taking spice and going through that puking. junk it as far as im concerned. puking is not part of my game plan

Firstly, don't come here trolling.

Now for the argument :

Chef ONLY makes buffs, Nothing else whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Get that into your head first. Chef items take a LOT of ingredients, money and time to make.

Now, Entertainer classes buff as a SIDELINE. That's right. Until a few patches ago, entertainers COULD NOT BUFF, it was added as an additional ability.

Entertainers heal BF and Mind Wounds, they are the only people, other than Jedi, that can do this.
You can also do this, and make cash from it by afk macroing 24/7, it doesn't get much easier. OK there are a number of Dancers & Musicians out there that dont afk it, but a large amount do.
People take this professional line either on a buffbot, or for the social side of it.
It take no resources, no cash.

Now onto Smuggler.
A smuggler slices weapons and armour to make them MUCH better. They also have a combat line, with the second highest DPS pistol shot in the game, and a Knockdown, plus PvE immortality as a general rule.
Smugglers can also buy and sell faction points.
Smugglers avoid crackdown scans.
Now, they can also make spices. The spice line is the EASIEST buff line in the game to level. It takes about an hour or two max if you have the ingredients, and has a lower XP requirement than moppiong a floor in SWG.
Spices also use sod all resources or time to make.
Muon uses 45 resources of ANY quality. Vassarian brandy in a cask needs :
2 trim (using Fiberplast and Inert Petro)
A container (uses the trim) plus 150 Crystalline Gemstone
2 Alcohol (20 cereal total)
BE additive plus 20 water to make a Medium Food Additive

And that's before we make the final item.
THEN after all those factory runs, we have enough to make 500 Brandy stacks, using 40 more resources needing the BEST resources in the game.

In the time it takes me to make 500 brandy, I can make ~6000 muon or pixie

Now tell me smuggler should be better than Chef ?

A Master Doctor buffd 6 stats for 3000+ for 3hrs +, they can heal, they can craft & sell meds, they can cure poison, disease, states etc.

I play a Master Chef on one char
I play a Master Chef on another char
I play Master Musician/Master Doc on another char

I can make almost as much cash as a smuggler selling spice as I can as a Chef, not to mention the other abilities smuggler gets.

ALL 3 are invaluable. I get Master Doctor Buffs, Musician buffs, Dancer buffs, I carry a wide selection of food and drink, AND I carry spices.

All 4 professions have a place in this game.

You state the length of an entertainer buff time, well, here's a tip - use setperform and T'ssolok, you can get the buff time needed to under 3.5mins.

How can you even THINK that the ONLY pure buffing class in the game should be the worst ?

I'm going to go over your post line by line, my replies are in green.

---

fatgit wrote:
Firstly, don't come here trolling.

Trolling? How about, making suggestions and creating discussion to try and improve the game.

Now for the argument :

Chef ONLY makes buffs, Nothing else whatsoever. Nada. Zip. Get that into your head first. Chef items take a LOT of ingredients, money and time to make.

That's not entierly true, you can place cantinas, so not nada, not zip, but you are 99% correct.

Now, Entertainer classes buff as a SIDELINE. That's right. Until a few patches ago, entertainers COULD NOT BUFF, it was added as an additional ability.

Entertainers heal BF and Mind Wounds, they are the only people, other than Jedi, that can do this.
You can also do this, and make cash from it by afk macroing 24/7, it doesn't get much easier. OK there are a number of Dancers & Musicians out there that dont afk it, but a large amount do.
People take this professional line either on a buffbot, or for the social side of it.
It take no resources, no cash.

So, becuase they buff as a sideline, they should suck? That's essentially what you are saying.

Now onto Smuggler.
A smuggler slices weapons and armour to make them MUCH better. They also have a combat line, with the second highest DPS pistol shot in the game, and a Knockdown, plus PvE immortality as a general rule.
Smugglers can also buy and sell faction points.
Smugglers avoid crackdown scans.
Now, they can also make spices. The spice line is the EASIEST buff line in the game to level. It takes about an hour or two max if you have the ingredients, and has a lower XP requirement than moppiong a floor in SWG.
Spices also use sod all resources or time to make.
Muon uses 45 resources of ANY quality. Vassarian brandy in a cask needs :
2 trim (using Fiberplast and Inert Petro)
A container (uses the trim) plus 150 Crystalline Gemstone
2 Alcohol (20 cereal total)
BE additive plus 20 water to make a Medium Food Additive

And that's before we make the final item.
THEN after all those factory runs, we have enough to make 500 Brandy stacks, using 40 more resources needing the BEST resources in the game.

In the time it takes me to make 500 brandy, I can make ~6000 muon or pixie

Again, because a smuggler can do other things besides make spice, spice should suck?

Now tell me smuggler should be better than Chef ?

Did I say that? No, I believe that they should complement each other. I suggested having spice enhance primary stat pools and some skill mods, and chef enhance secondary stat pools and different skill mods. Maybe having spice give skill mods at all is a bad idea, because I agree, chef foods are much harder to make than spice. But my general idea is true and unflawed. Spice should be usefull, chef food should be usefull, and one should not make the other obsolete.

Let me also throw out, that since your items are harder to make, you can also charge a whole heap load more for them. I don't see too many smugglers charging 150K for a crate of muon. Part of the reward of working hard to make an item is charging more for it, and smugglers and entertainer don't charge much for thier product. But because your items are hard to make, and spice is easy to make, and entertainer buffs require little overhead, doesn't mean that spice and entertainer buffs should suck.

A Master Doctor buffd 6 stats for 3000+ for 3hrs +, they can heal, they can craft & sell meds, they can cure poison, disease, states etc.

I play a Master Chef on one char
I play a Master Chef on another char
I play Master Musician/Master Doc on another char

I can make almost as much cash as a smuggler selling spice as I can as a Chef, not to mention the other abilities smuggler gets.

You can make as much money as a smuggler as you can as a chef? After the revamp, I doubt that very much, and that's part of the reason I posted this in the first place.

ALL 3 are invaluable. I get Master Doctor Buffs, Musician buffs, Dancer buffs, I carry a wide selection of food and drink, AND I carry spices.

All 4 professions have a place in this game.

You're right, they all do have a place in the game, and entertainer buffs are valuable, but my point is, entertainer buffs are so much of a pain in the but to get, I, as a consumer of these services and products, will not go out of my way to get them while I can eat and drink my way to the same end result.

You state the length of an entertainer buff time, well, here's a tip - use setperform and T'ssolok, you can get the buff time needed to under 3.5mins.

Even with T'ssolok getting an entertainer buff is still a pain in the rear. Entertainer buffs need to be easier to use, and last longer, and be in line with the best doctor buffs when given by a master dancer/musician. As they stand, they are too much of a pain to get when you can just use some of the new chef foods and be fine for most anything.

How can you even THINK that the ONLY pure buffing class in the game should be the worst ?

Where are you getting this from? Where did I say it should be the worst? I want every profession to be good, to be fun to play, and to be usefull. But, you're new chef foods are so good, that they are decreasing the need for entertainer buffs and spice, and I'm just throwing an idea out here to make them work together.

---

I wasn't looking for a flame war, I don't know where that came from, or the one star, I tried to put some thought into my post here.

You have to agree that the new foods make entertainer buffs and spice less usefull, and in less demand. You also have to agree that everything in game should have a place. Well, the new chef foods are nudging into the place of spice and entertainer buffs.

So, how about some ideas to make everything work together, so that smugglers have a market for thier muon, and people still seek out entertainers for buffs, without messing with chef much, or pissing people off?

Message Edited by kito56 on 03-14-2004 08:19 PM

Speaking as a Chef/Smuggler, I can say that there are partial truths here. Chef food is far more powerful than Spice now, but that means that Spices are next to worthless as It stands.

The way to solve this is to fix the Spices line to be useful, not to nerf the Chefs back down again. Leave the Chef foods alone.

Spices are good because they are cheap to make. frankly 6k a crate of muon or pixie is fine, because you can use grind quality mnaterials.

I'm personally in favour of removing Spices to a "quest item" status by the use of Smuggler missions and content, but that is a debate for the Smuggler forum.

I'm also in favour of addiction and different downers for them, but likewise, that debate doesn't belong here.

I know nothing about entertainers.

In conclusion: Leave the chef foods the hell alone, they are fine as they are.

If the buff is a sideline (i.e. one of many skills) then yes, it should be "less valuable" than from a pure buffing class.

For PVP you need entertainer buffing, drugs, and food to hold your own, period.

For PVE your life is much easier if you have the full set of buffs ... I know people who can't be bothered to carry food, that doesn't make it less valuable.

If they didn't stack with each other you'd have a valid argument. As they do, I don't see it. I'm selling Smuggler's Delight by the crate, with no sign of drug usage abating. I'm also seeing guild members complain about the lack of entertainers at the keyboard ("why do I always have to go to Theed") so entertainer buffs being a pain isn't a game issue, it's a player issue (entertainers, spread out more!).

Ypou have to go and find food, equally a pain although you can stack up. I can't believe anyone who is fighting isn't regularly having to stop in a cantina anyway. I could see an argument for entertainer buffs to last as long as doctor buffs, but that isn't relevant to food/drink stats.

I'm not accusing you of flaming (but be aware that a lot of people do wander in here with that specific intention); however nor do I see that your argument is particularly well thought-out.

Tssolok, for the record, is a food that allows entertainers to buff faster (reduces the time needed for full buff).

I'm a Master Chef and Master Smuggler and I haven't made any Spice in over a month now. My inventory of 200 crates of Muon Gold and Neutron Pixie will be in my vendor for the next 2 years at my current sale rate.

I used to sell about 40 crates of Muon a week, now it's down to 2-5 crates a week. I could sell it on the Bazaar on the advanced planet easily, but who wants to do all that work for 6,000 credit?

Sorry if I came across too strong, all Ive heard in a week is "chef needs nerfing" from smugglers, docs, entertainers

I cant get this through enough though - a Chef is ONLY a buff class, you use the argument about a cantina ?
Big deal, we get to use 5 lots, when we need 3 houses, 4 factories and 30 harvesters.
The cantina takes 5 lots, and doesn't ecacly enhance our skills.
Doctors can place med centers (and get a bonus for registering there), and Musicians and Dancers can also place Cantina's - so thats that point removed

You can make as much money as a smuggler as you can as a chef? After the revamp, I doubt that very much, and that's part of the reason I posted this in the first place.

You are forgetting, you can make a nice sum also selling fp's, slicing, spices AND missions. I pay for buffs, and I earn ~200k an hour on missions alone. I also sold 75k of spices.
My chef made 300k today.

You're right, they all do have a place in the game, and entertainer buffs are valuable, but my point is, entertainer buffs are so much of a pain in the but to get, I, as a consumer of these services and products, will not go out of my way to get them while I can eat and drink my way to the same end result.

To an extent, though entertainer buffs are 2 hours. Yes, food has a portability, but as a pure buffing class, there should be advantages.

I stand by my claim that these other classes are not primary buffing classes, and as such, should not compete with the primary buffing class.
The fact that other professions have weeknesses doesn't make them useless, or make chef "uber".
A Chef must take a LOT more time and effort into making these buffs than a Smuggler or an Entertainer - an entertainer can macro everything if they want, a smuggler can make muon out of the crappiest resources in the galaxy.
Us Chefs have multiple factory runs to make one item, we rely on Tailors and BE's, we have to use the best resources available, and a large variety (I personally have over 280 different flora stacks).
As an entertainer, you don't have any outlay, you can buff 24/7 if you wish, you don't need to manage harvesters or factories or resources.
As a Smuggler, you can buy grinding resources off the bazaar & make your products just the same as if you had the best ever spawned resources.

Only the Doctor comes close, and surpasses all Chef buffs, but guess what ?
The Doctor needs specific resources to make those, plus factories, multiple harvesters etc.

The thing is, it's all down to the complexity of the item. If you need multiple factories, harvesters, storage, massive quantities of excellent resources, multiple factory runs etc, your product SHOULD be far, far better than anything someone else can just "throw out".

By using your arguments, I should be able to bame BF healing food & drink, thats as good as a Master Dancers, or "slicing" foods, or "faction point" foods - I cant.

Btw, I didn't 1 star - and I just 5starred you to show it

hmm..wasn't one of the lastpatch's main features the chef revamp? last timei checked the devs don't unvamp professions. Just let them revamp smuggler and musicians/dancers if they really need it.

Well, lets see, I'll let my SP do my talking.

When the revamp hit I went from a large volume of spice product being sold - to no product being sold, period. I went two straight weeks with a fully stocked spice vendor with planetary advertising 25m away from the shuttle on the largest player city on Naboo. I sold 2 crates the entire time. Heck, I don't even use Muon myself anymore, I've used 3 hits since the revamp for emergencies. I finally dropped the spices line completely and simply put my alt character into chef, I was doubling my muon prices with Spiced Tea and selling like mad, SPICED TEA, from novice Artisan, for heaven's sake.

With no smuggler revamp in sight its a lost prof. Last Ditch is the only reason to hold the prof anymore unless you want to stand by a recruiter for hours or be a slice monkey, and to use last ditch well you have to master another proffession(pistoleer) to deal that good DPS. Low Blow was great with panic shot, but unless you haven't heard, panic shot is history, and with it low blow unless you master yet another prof (TKA, Fencer, or Carbineer) to switch weapons on the fly and grab a dizzy move. And I wish everyone would realize that Feign Death hasn't been working in months, unless you call auto aggro on stand no matter how far out of range you are. So I voted with my skill pts and dropped smuggler, and chose chef, because quite frankly, with 10 crates of muon, myself and my circle of friends are set on everything smugg could offer till around August, except slicing, and well, thats not enough to tie up the points to get master when I could help my friends with everything I was doing as a smuggler better with a chef.

I really support the idea that food and spice work on entirely different areas, keep food the way it is and let spice buff areas food doesn't cover. (no idea what that area would be - the food scope is really expansive)