Chef Archive
Thread: Best way to fix Havla?
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ShadyChrs
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:46 am
#1
As many people know, Havla is bugged and unbalanced. It doesn't give the number of charges we want for buffing and Combat Medics use it to absolutely DOMINATE PvP. I was wondering whether anyone had any good ideas as to how to fix it? A lot of people seem to want it rermoved entirely but I can't help thinking there is some way to fix it where it is both balanced and useful to us doctors.
What I would suggest is this:
1) Switch it from a set # of uses to a timer(I would suggest around 4-5 minutes). It seems to me that it is bugged because it relies on a set # of charges and something is worng in how they calculate it
2) Drastically increase it's filling (I would think around 70-75 filling per use).
This would work on 2 levels, doctors would be able to speed buff through 10-15 players in 5 minutes of havla buffing, and CM's will have to give up almost their entire stomach to use havla and in the process sacrifice things like canape, pikata, et al.
I'm sure this sn't a perfect solution, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on it.
What I would suggest is this:
1) Switch it from a set # of uses to a timer(I would suggest around 4-5 minutes). It seems to me that it is bugged because it relies on a set # of charges and something is worng in how they calculate it
2) Drastically increase it's filling (I would think around 70-75 filling per use).
This would work on 2 levels, doctors would be able to speed buff through 10-15 players in 5 minutes of havla buffing, and CM's will have to give up almost their entire stomach to use havla and in the process sacrifice things like canape, pikata, et al.
I'm sure this sn't a perfect solution, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on it.
ShadyChrs
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:57 am
#2
As many people know, Havla is bugged and unbalanced. It doesn't give the number of charges Doctors want for buffing and Combat Medics use it to absolutely DOMINATE PvP. I was wondering whether anyone had any good ideas as to how to fix it? A lot of people seem to want it rermoved entirely but I can't help thinking there is some way to fix it where it is both balanced and useful.
What I would suggest is this:
1) Switch it from a set # of uses to a timer(I would suggest around 4-5 minutes). It seems to me that it is bugged because it relies on a set # of charges and something is wrong in how they calculate it
2) Drastically increase it's filling (I would think around 70-75 filling per use).
This would work on 2 levels, doctors would be able to speed buff through 10-15 players in 5 minutes of havla buffing, and CM's will have to give up almost their entire stomach to use havla and in the process sacrifice things like canape, pikata, et al.
I'm sure this isn't a perfect solution, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on it.
Aen Gide
Master Combat Medic/Master Doctor
New Order
What I would suggest is this:
1) Switch it from a set # of uses to a timer(I would suggest around 4-5 minutes). It seems to me that it is bugged because it relies on a set # of charges and something is wrong in how they calculate it
2) Drastically increase it's filling (I would think around 70-75 filling per use).
This would work on 2 levels, doctors would be able to speed buff through 10-15 players in 5 minutes of havla buffing, and CM's will have to give up almost their entire stomach to use havla and in the process sacrifice things like canape, pikata, et al.
I'm sure this isn't a perfect solution, but I'd like to hear people's thoughts on it.
Aen Gide
Master Combat Medic/Master Doctor
New Order
Marrow1
Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:59 am
#3
Think how much damage CM could do in 4-5min. At least now they are limited to 12 or so hits. In 4-5 min at one shot per second or two that it a whole lotta dots.
They just need the lable on the food to reflect the 12 rather than 24 heals.
The only real thing they need to fix, IMO, is that the enhancement should scale better wtih the effectiveness even when under 100 rather than the step function change we have now.
If you really want to adjust the food to limit CM use then make it so that it only works on heals and not tossing poison/disease. Let the CM,Doc, and medics use the food for healing speed increases as it was intended just don't let it be used for chunking dots. This requires much more coding then I think the devs are prepared to do, however.
If this changes is made then making the food work in a time basis would be fine.
Regarding the filling, many people use Bivoli which is about 33% filling. So I don't think you would want Havla to be too filling or you would not be able to eat Bivoli.
Numen
Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:08 am
#4
I agree that this is unbalancing for CMs, but I don't agree with changing it just because of CMs.
I would be totally for the increase filling and switch toduration over uses, but I don't see how that changes much. CMs can now thown poisons constantly for 5+ minutes now instead of the 20ish throws before.
IMO revamping the CM profession is the best thing.
HuntinHeads
Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:23 am
#5
Don't forget that CM's havla works just like a docs. They eat the havla throw 12 poison/disease and it is done. This can easily be countered by a doc that eats havla. Let the CM go off and do his/her worst. Eat or have already eaten havla, and cure away. I seriously doubt it will take all 12 heals to cure everything with some quality cures either. If you are good, you can cure it all in 6, leaving 6 havla heals left. A smart doc can keep up with a CM any day.
sciguyCO
Thu Jul 08, 2004 9:42 am
#6
Don't forget the bug where Havla (and Ruby Bliel) with a bonus under 100 has absolutely no effect.
I'm not sure whether your suggestions would help much with CMs, and would give doctors a pretty severe penalty. If it's effect is on a timer, CMs could end up throwing even more poisons/diseases at 1s intervals, instead of having to eat more after 12 tosses. A higher filling would mean that a doctor selling buffs at a popular location (Coronet/theed starport, for example) would probably get less benefit from it, since they'd need more downtime to digest. Although with a time duration they would speed buff more players while under the effect. Plus, if the filling is too high docs wouldn't be able to do a Havla + Bivoli combo.
I think to really take care of Havla (besides fixing the bugs with sub-100 bonus and # of heals affected) would need one of two things:
- Remove the additive slot from Havla's schematic, or at maybe limit it to non-Nutrition ones. This would cap the heal recovery bonus around the mid-50s.
- Give heal actions and poison/disease applications a hard minimum that cannot be bypassed with food. This would make Havla more useful to lower-level medics/doctors/CMs (ones who haven't gotten all their +speed mods yet), allowing them to be on equal footing with Masters as far as speed is concerned. These could be something like 1s for damage healing and 4s for wound healing, buffs, andpoisons.
Just removing the additive component slot would probably be the simplest fix considering the code required to implement a time cap. It would also make Ruby Bliel a bit more useful, since one of those with an additive could possibly get close to Havla's unenhanced buff, and with a smaller filling. This would give players the option of either a food or a drink, both with comparable effects.
There is discussion going on among the correspondants about balancing CMs, and Havla is one of the things being included in that. I think it's effect got a bit beyond what GreenMarine intended when he did the revamp, so we may be seeing a change to it coming in a future publish.
Mmaxx
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:14 am
#7
You can't separate the CM and Doc use of Havla. Poisons are in the same catagory as buffs as far as havla is considered. Both are basically wound treatment speed realted. Buffs a super heals and poisons are negative heals. Having it work one way for docs and another for CMS would require changing the profs too much. A huge code change isn't going to happen so what now?
Either adjust what it can do for everybody or remove it. For it to be better for Docs makes it better for CMs. Making worse for CMs, makes it worse for docs. What can be done? I think they should just remove it from the game altogether anddecrease the time between applying enhancements to 6 seconds instead of 16 (is that right? 16 seconds between buffs?)
Jo'ran
Okin_Sin
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:33 am
#8
Instead of nerfing the Havla, why not just say that poison/desease is not a "heal". Havla reduces the heal recovery time, Im not sure how throwing a desease at someone is considered a heal. I think the best solution would be to not haveeverything medic related considered a heal. Would it really be considered overpowered if a doc could heal some wounds fast, or even the super fast buffing is not out of balance in my opion. The doc/medic is giving up stomach room that could be spent on something else, so I don't think actually healing, or even buffing would be overpowered.Take Desease/Poisons off of the heal recovery timer, and make it combat medic combat timer or something and the problem is solved.
ShadyChrs
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:40 am
#9
Perhaps 5 minutes is too long, but I think you guys are underestimating how much increasing the filling would do to CM's. In order for a CM to even use Havla w/ this much filling, it would require him to have 70+ filling free in his stomach. CM's would be very poweful for a brief period of time, followed by a LONG stretch in which they would have almost no food bonuses. In an extended battle(base raid) having to wait for 70 food to clear would be drastic. As it is now, CM's can take4 Havla's back to back which will can last anywhere from3-10 minutes depending on how intense the fighting is,and their turnover rate before they can use another is quite small allowing them to almost use havla non-stop.
As for Doctor's, Havla would become a godsend when dealing with long lines.Say your in Coronet buffing and have a line 8-10 long, a single Havla would allow you to clear the line. This leads to less downtime for people looking for buffs(always a good thing), less people crowding the starports(less lag), and a faster profit for the doc himself.
Like I said, perhaps 5 minutes is too long and something around 3 minuteswould be better. It's not feasible due to coding to seperate Poison/Disease from other healing(hence why CM's aren't ever going to be nerfed) and I'd hate to see doctor's lose this food because of CM's.
Canadianjoo
Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:56 pm
#10
well, the best suggestion i can think is to prevent its effetiveness on combat medicine. The abuse of it by certain CM's give other CM's, who like the MEDICINE part of combat MEDIC (like myself) the threat of being nerfed. Judging by how havla works in increments of 6 it seems to be designed for power buffing/woundhealing/healing your incapped party, not poisoning the living daylights out of some poor person. Several CM's have also suggested this form of a fix.
saxmahoney
Thu Jul 08, 2004 10:38 pm
#11
Keep it HEAL recovery time...no poison/disease recovery time. This would help overall because a doc can supply 12 cure diseases or poisons, before the cm can get another set off (still is unbalanced, but better that nothing). The timer is a good idea, but still only helps if it takes away the CM's offensive.
BTW, I too am a CM, but the havla-GTEF'ing-out-of-the-cloner-throwing CM is horrible and anything that can help this will help PvP overall. Not a nerf...a FIX.
jkray8472
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:25 pm
#12
The Devs announced today that there will be a minimum delay time between poisons and disease tosses. Thus effectively preventing "havla bombers."
No mention was made of Doctor use of Havla, so doctors can continue curing at the 1 second speed cap.
Marrow1
Thu Jul 08, 2004 11:47 pm
#13
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=214503
here is the link
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