Chef Archive
Thread: Field Report: Food Crafting With Bio-Engineered Components (long)
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Szoept
Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:21 am
#1
Field Report: Food Crafting With Bio-Engineered Components
Okay, here's the skinny! I was going to keep this information to myself so that I could be one of the few truly elite experimental crafters that relies not on hearsay but actually firsthand knowledge, but I think that for the betterment of both Chef and Bio-Engineer professions I will reveal my findings. Hopefully, it will make some BE's realize that they aren't quite as broken as they all think. And it will keep Chefs from making some errors in determining the viability of the bio-engineered supplements. And it will make us both dependent on each other a little more.
And for that reason I am posting in both places. And yes, it is a loooong post, but I feel it to be very important to our communities.
First off, I have only been able to play around with micronutrient supplements and bio-strength enhancers. And I have discovered how they work, and anyone who says they are broken probably hasn't bothered to examine closely the intricate experimentation system the development team has created. Or has fallen prey to the BIG BUGABOO, which I'll mention in a moment.
Second, to try to handle an issue with bio-strength enchancers. I had heard mention at some previous time that the negative modifiers from this supplement were permenant. I cannot verify nor deny any such information. Anyone with CURRENT experience with taking this supplement, please speak up now! However, I might have an idea that might be confirmed or shot down depending on our experiences.
Third, the BIG BUGABOO. Okay this is probably where the insane rumor started with all BE supplements being broken and/or crap. Before combining the supplement in, the supplement has its attributes listed and after a combine the attributes are replaced with a +0 description. THIS IS A LIE! If one continues to monitor variables and control food variables, they will notice a difference in the final combine of that component that used the biological component. The end result with be the equivalent of FREE experimentation points, the amount dependent on what BE supplement was used and how high the BE experimented it up. The point here is that the display screen for items using biological components, such as soypro (the subject of all my experiments), is broken. It needs to be fixed and might be this next big patch. Especially if we all start /bug reporting it.
This bugaboo is related to my theory on the perma-neg modifiers. Some displays seem to be reporting inaccurate information, as is the case with the component combine of food. Such as the stats window. No damage, no wounds, and yet my Mind pool is 600 points below what it should be? Broken display. So the same questionable data reports on these display windows freaks people out and they stay away from that item forever. I believe when this happened to me I had been out hunting and regularly eating and drinking. Relogging cleared it up and I was returned to my normal state. Whether the data actually wasn't resetting like it should have or the display was broken, I don't know, cause I can see the databases, etc. But seeing something like that can be frightening. I think the same bugaboo afflicts some of the crafting “successes” as well. Clear failure being reported as successes and vice versa. (Investigation of this is also needed.)
So anyway, I'm starting to ramble about that. So I'll move on to the actual data I have collected.
Without going too far into theoretical experimentation explanations, I will offer the following information.
Experiment Set#1: Micronutrient Supplement +4% Duration Bonus
Food Item: Soypro in Veghash
First Combines: Soypro
Both combines of the control and experimental sets resulted in identical percentages of 7% & 11% in the respective data of Soypro. The only difference between sets was the presence of a “Duration Bonus: +0%” in the experimental condition.
Second Combines: Veghash
Both combines resulted in identical percentages of 6%, 11%, and 26% in both conditions in the respective data slots dealing with duration, stat buff, and quantity. The only difference between sets in this combine was the presence of an additional 4secs to the duration of the stat modifiers.
Control: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Experimental: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 128s
Replication:
I followed this up with a few other experiements involving a set meatlump and another set of vegahash. The meatlump resulted with the same additional time % bonus, but was more observable because of the longer duration of meatlumps natural result (in the 200s range). The second veghash set was used to determine where the bonus was added in, a) during final combination or b) after experimentation. Data analyzed suggests that the bonus is applied during the final combination and that further experimentation can destroy that bonus or enhance it, thus acting like free experimentation points.
Summary:
Micronutrient Supplements work. Display windows display incorrect information. The bonus is added during food combination, not post-experimentation.
Future Research:
Experiements involving high % level bonuses to see the maximum benefit for this type of supplement and to discover the recipe that would benefit the most from it, as well as discovering those people who desire longer duration buffs and making these available.
Experiement Set #2: Bio-Strength Enchancer
(Note: I had an extremely limited supply of these, so some of the conclusions are somewhat generalized based on these experiments.)
Subset #1: Soypro in Meatlump
Component Modifiers: +20 Health, +13 Strength, +10 Con, +-80 Action, +-37 Quickness, +-33 Stamina
First Combines: Soypro
Both conditions resulted in identical percentages for Soypro attributes of 7% and 12%. The difference between the sets was the presence of an additional list of bonuses in the experimental condition reflecting the bonuses listed on the bio-eng component, but with all values being “+0.”
Second Combines: Meatlump
For some reason I am missing data on the combine percentages here, so it is scientifically questionable, but the important stuff is not. If memory serves me they were identical percentages. The experimantal condition differed from the control in presence of a +10 in Constitution.
Control: Meatlump, +59 Constitution, 277s
Experimental: Meatlump, +69 Constitution, 277s
Replication: No replication studies were possible with the Meatlump because of extremely limited resources (i.e. Only had three Bio-Strength Enhancers ) However, this did lead me to test it on another food, thus subset #2.
Subset #2: Soypro in Veghash
Component Modifiers: +21 Health, +10 Strength, +10 Con, +-78 Action, +-39 Quickness, +-39 Stamina
First Combines: Soypro
Both conditions resulted in identical percentages for Soypro attributes of 7% and 12%. The difference between the sets was the presence of an additional list of bonuses in the experimental condition reflecting the bonuses listed on the bio-eng component, but with all values being “+0.”
Second Combines: Veghash
Both combines resulted in identical percentages of 6%, 11%, and 26% in both conditions in the respective data slots dealing with duration, stat buff, and quantity. The experimantal condition differed from the control in presence of a +10 in Constitution and a -39 in Stamina, in comparison between groups.
Control: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Experimental: Veghash, +90 con, +41 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Replication: Again, no replication was performed. Mainly because I decided to save the last bio-strength enchancer for a dessert recipe (which I don't have any levels in yet) and wanted to share my findings here.
Generalized Summary and Conclusions:
Bio-Strength Enhancers work. Display windows display incorrect information. The bonus is added during food combination, not post-experimentation. Furthermore, the Bio-Strength Enhancers do not automatically add all buffs listed in the qualities of them, but they only boost those stats that are naturally present in the food. Thus the +10 con in subset #1 and the +10 con and -39 stamina in subset #2, as those foods normally buff those stats. Until further research is done, it will be assumed that this is the case.
Future Research:
Continue testing supplements in all foods to determine if the proposed hypothesis is valid. Explore supplements with larger stat increases and categorize the best overall advantage for particular foods. Will necessitate acquiring Master Chef and having a relatively cheap supply of supplements. May necessitate acquiring levels in Bio-engineering, specifically in Engineering and Tissues.
Other Considerations:
I have yet to extensively test these materials in the field. So it may be possible, however very unlikely, that the resultant food products do not buff at all, if so it is a bug that definitely needs to be dealt with. Another possibility based on previous documentation is that the food has the bizarre effect of changing stat points until one relogs (or based on other information, perma-negs). If that is the case, specifically the change in stats until relogging, then it may be needed to take into consideration that it may be operating as intended. The rationale behind this is that engineered foods may have side-effects, much like spices. However, this seems unlikely to me, and may be a bug. Any volunteers for testing?
If you have any comments on your experiences crafting or ingesting these materials within the recent past (at most since the last big patch), please post them here. If my findings are completely incorrect, I chalk it up to ignorance and misevaluating my research. I tried to be as thorough as possible but I might have missed something.
My experimentation with biological components has renewed my interest in crafting and has lead me into a beginning period of truly understanding experimentation. From what I can tell it is indeed very complex and sometimes it appears to be completely random, but I know it is not. A system has to operate on rules. The only mistake, or truly great thing, made with crafting is that there are no real handy guidelines, just general pointing directions. Anyway, I look forward to playing with these components in the future! Great stuff from the BE's!!!
-Aleka
Novice Chef 2/0/2/3
Novice Rifleman 0/0/0/0
Coronet City, Bria Galaxy
Okay, here's the skinny! I was going to keep this information to myself so that I could be one of the few truly elite experimental crafters that relies not on hearsay but actually firsthand knowledge, but I think that for the betterment of both Chef and Bio-Engineer professions I will reveal my findings. Hopefully, it will make some BE's realize that they aren't quite as broken as they all think. And it will keep Chefs from making some errors in determining the viability of the bio-engineered supplements. And it will make us both dependent on each other a little more.
And for that reason I am posting in both places. And yes, it is a loooong post, but I feel it to be very important to our communities.First off, I have only been able to play around with micronutrient supplements and bio-strength enhancers. And I have discovered how they work, and anyone who says they are broken probably hasn't bothered to examine closely the intricate experimentation system the development team has created. Or has fallen prey to the BIG BUGABOO, which I'll mention in a moment.
Second, to try to handle an issue with bio-strength enchancers. I had heard mention at some previous time that the negative modifiers from this supplement were permenant. I cannot verify nor deny any such information. Anyone with CURRENT experience with taking this supplement, please speak up now! However, I might have an idea that might be confirmed or shot down depending on our experiences.
Third, the BIG BUGABOO. Okay this is probably where the insane rumor started with all BE supplements being broken and/or crap. Before combining the supplement in, the supplement has its attributes listed and after a combine the attributes are replaced with a +0 description. THIS IS A LIE! If one continues to monitor variables and control food variables, they will notice a difference in the final combine of that component that used the biological component. The end result with be the equivalent of FREE experimentation points, the amount dependent on what BE supplement was used and how high the BE experimented it up. The point here is that the display screen for items using biological components, such as soypro (the subject of all my experiments), is broken. It needs to be fixed and might be this next big patch. Especially if we all start /bug reporting it.
This bugaboo is related to my theory on the perma-neg modifiers. Some displays seem to be reporting inaccurate information, as is the case with the component combine of food. Such as the stats window. No damage, no wounds, and yet my Mind pool is 600 points below what it should be? Broken display. So the same questionable data reports on these display windows freaks people out and they stay away from that item forever. I believe when this happened to me I had been out hunting and regularly eating and drinking. Relogging cleared it up and I was returned to my normal state. Whether the data actually wasn't resetting like it should have or the display was broken, I don't know, cause I can see the databases, etc. But seeing something like that can be frightening. I think the same bugaboo afflicts some of the crafting “successes” as well. Clear failure being reported as successes and vice versa. (Investigation of this is also needed.)
So anyway, I'm starting to ramble about that. So I'll move on to the actual data I have collected.
Without going too far into theoretical experimentation explanations, I will offer the following information.
Experiment Set#1: Micronutrient Supplement +4% Duration Bonus
Food Item: Soypro in Veghash
First Combines: Soypro
Both combines of the control and experimental sets resulted in identical percentages of 7% & 11% in the respective data of Soypro. The only difference between sets was the presence of a “Duration Bonus: +0%” in the experimental condition.
Second Combines: Veghash
Both combines resulted in identical percentages of 6%, 11%, and 26% in both conditions in the respective data slots dealing with duration, stat buff, and quantity. The only difference between sets in this combine was the presence of an additional 4secs to the duration of the stat modifiers.
Control: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Experimental: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 128s
Replication:
I followed this up with a few other experiements involving a set meatlump and another set of vegahash. The meatlump resulted with the same additional time % bonus, but was more observable because of the longer duration of meatlumps natural result (in the 200s range). The second veghash set was used to determine where the bonus was added in, a) during final combination or b) after experimentation. Data analyzed suggests that the bonus is applied during the final combination and that further experimentation can destroy that bonus or enhance it, thus acting like free experimentation points.
Summary:
Micronutrient Supplements work. Display windows display incorrect information. The bonus is added during food combination, not post-experimentation.
Future Research:
Experiements involving high % level bonuses to see the maximum benefit for this type of supplement and to discover the recipe that would benefit the most from it, as well as discovering those people who desire longer duration buffs and making these available.
Experiement Set #2: Bio-Strength Enchancer
(Note: I had an extremely limited supply of these, so some of the conclusions are somewhat generalized based on these experiments.)
Subset #1: Soypro in Meatlump
Component Modifiers: +20 Health, +13 Strength, +10 Con, +-80 Action, +-37 Quickness, +-33 Stamina
First Combines: Soypro
Both conditions resulted in identical percentages for Soypro attributes of 7% and 12%. The difference between the sets was the presence of an additional list of bonuses in the experimental condition reflecting the bonuses listed on the bio-eng component, but with all values being “+0.”
Second Combines: Meatlump
For some reason I am missing data on the combine percentages here, so it is scientifically questionable, but the important stuff is not. If memory serves me they were identical percentages. The experimantal condition differed from the control in presence of a +10 in Constitution.
Control: Meatlump, +59 Constitution, 277s
Experimental: Meatlump, +69 Constitution, 277s
Replication: No replication studies were possible with the Meatlump because of extremely limited resources (i.e. Only had three Bio-Strength Enhancers
) However, this did lead me to test it on another food, thus subset #2.Subset #2: Soypro in Veghash
Component Modifiers: +21 Health, +10 Strength, +10 Con, +-78 Action, +-39 Quickness, +-39 Stamina
First Combines: Soypro
Both conditions resulted in identical percentages for Soypro attributes of 7% and 12%. The difference between the sets was the presence of an additional list of bonuses in the experimental condition reflecting the bonuses listed on the bio-eng component, but with all values being “+0.”
Second Combines: Veghash
Both combines resulted in identical percentages of 6%, 11%, and 26% in both conditions in the respective data slots dealing with duration, stat buff, and quantity. The experimantal condition differed from the control in presence of a +10 in Constitution and a -39 in Stamina, in comparison between groups.
Control: Veghash, +80 con, +80 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Experimental: Veghash, +90 con, +41 stamina, +80 willpower, 124s
Replication: Again, no replication was performed. Mainly because I decided to save the last bio-strength enchancer for a dessert recipe (which I don't have any levels in yet) and wanted to share my findings here.
Generalized Summary and Conclusions:
Bio-Strength Enhancers work. Display windows display incorrect information. The bonus is added during food combination, not post-experimentation. Furthermore, the Bio-Strength Enhancers do not automatically add all buffs listed in the qualities of them, but they only boost those stats that are naturally present in the food. Thus the +10 con in subset #1 and the +10 con and -39 stamina in subset #2, as those foods normally buff those stats. Until further research is done, it will be assumed that this is the case.
Future Research:
Continue testing supplements in all foods to determine if the proposed hypothesis is valid. Explore supplements with larger stat increases and categorize the best overall advantage for particular foods. Will necessitate acquiring Master Chef and having a relatively cheap supply of supplements. May necessitate acquiring levels in Bio-engineering, specifically in Engineering and Tissues.
Other Considerations:
I have yet to extensively test these materials in the field. So it may be possible, however very unlikely, that the resultant food products do not buff at all, if so it is a bug that definitely needs to be dealt with. Another possibility based on previous documentation is that the food has the bizarre effect of changing stat points until one relogs (or based on other information, perma-negs). If that is the case, specifically the change in stats until relogging, then it may be needed to take into consideration that it may be operating as intended. The rationale behind this is that engineered foods may have side-effects, much like spices. However, this seems unlikely to me, and may be a bug. Any volunteers for testing?
If you have any comments on your experiences crafting or ingesting these materials within the recent past (at most since the last big patch), please post them here. If my findings are completely incorrect, I chalk it up to ignorance and misevaluating my research. I tried to be as thorough as possible but I might have missed something.
My experimentation with biological components has renewed my interest in crafting and has lead me into a beginning period of truly understanding experimentation. From what I can tell it is indeed very complex and sometimes it appears to be completely random, but I know it is not. A system has to operate on rules. The only mistake, or truly great thing, made with crafting is that there are no real handy guidelines, just general pointing directions. Anyway, I look forward to playing with these components in the future! Great stuff from the BE's!!!
-Aleka
Novice Chef 2/0/2/3
Novice Rifleman 0/0/0/0
Coronet City, Bria Galaxy
fatgit
Fri Sep 05, 2003 4:12 am
#2
Interesting post, Ill need to read it a couple of times to take it all in
The big bugaboo before the patch was, by adding a soypro with Master BE Micronutrient Supplements to Blood Chowder, I ended up with it being _half_ the buff for a slightly shorter duration. With experimentation I was able to get it back up to non-be-component Blood Chowder.
If thats fixed, Im all for using BE components.
The big bugaboo before the patch was, by adding a soypro with Master BE Micronutrient Supplements to Blood Chowder, I ended up with it being _half_ the buff for a slightly shorter duration. With experimentation I was able to get it back up to non-be-component Blood Chowder.
If thats fixed, Im all for using BE components.
Szoept
Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:32 am
#3
yikes, that is a nasty one, fatgit. one of the problems i have run into with trying to get info on these is that, i only get replies such as "they don't work" without an explanation, or the terrible "everything is broke" syndrome, even when it is pretty clear to me that the ones i have messed around do work. i mean if the supplements got fixed under the noses of the BE community, they'd have at least something. Anyone know any BE's on Bria that might want to help me with free test samples for more field reports?
-Aleka
-Aleka
Indada_EoC
Fri Sep 05, 2003 5:42 am
#4
If any chef from Kauri wants to do some testing give me a holler.... I can make the starter sets of these which should prove to be enough for further testing.
haala
Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:03 am
#5
I have been helping out a BE friend of mine by using her additives, but just to get her XP. I too thought that it was broken since everythign said +0. I can't wait to tell her it really is working!
BTW, there is a 3rd additive she has been giving me - Devaronian Alipedene. It augments quick stam mind focus and wp.
Now that I know these things work, I can tailor the additives to the final product I'm working towards - mind booster for the mind foods, etc.
Thanks for sharing.
Jihadic
Fri Sep 05, 2003 8:26 am
#7
Hmmm... I'll definitely have to test this. I've kept a stash of them and have been testing one BE component out after every patch with the +0 results all the time. Are you sure you were using the correct enhancer when making Blood Chowder fatgit? Did the enhancer actually have a negative for the HAMs listed in the buff? It sounds like it doesn't add/subtract the enhancement buff unless the food/drink has a buff/debuff for that certain HAM bar already.
ReblSoldier
Fri Sep 05, 2003 10:24 am
#8
Unless the changed the schematics when I use to be a Bioengineer with Tissues 4 Every Chef mod that was level 1 or lev el 2 Took milk.
So the only chef mods I could make were +15 or +10% duration
They also cost more to make then most the foods I the effects seemed pretty light for the cost.. Where Armor segments for armor smiths can make a World of diference a set of compisite with 0 ham cost for example.
And weapon Components can add 30% dmage and 30% speed at the same time to the non sliced schematic.
Those are not even made by a Crafter the bio engineer is a useless profession right now because it cant use its own pets unless you take CH.
Skills mods currently seems to be broken and dont work in clothing.
chef Enhancements are too expensive for chef products thats are almost useless to begin with.
Also Chef Cant ADD them to any item only certain ones , only food items not drinks as well.. Anyone else notice that most the useful chef Recipes dont take Chef foodComponents they take Artisan or Alchool ?
Hoggle
Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:23 am
#9
I wish they were worth using and that they didn't have to be put in a component first. I'd rather use it in a final combine. That way I don't have to run off an extra crate or 2 of bio-boosted components.
Ida
Fri Sep 05, 2003 11:34 am
#10
Thanks for the tests.. you have more patience than me. Although I have to say +10, or +4 seconds is not very useful to me, especially when the components can't be crated so they fill up my inventory and prevent use in a factory. What's the biggest effect these components can hit at max experimentation, or is this it?
erosomniac
Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:12 pm
#11
"Also Chef Cant ADD them to any item only certain ones , only food items not drinks as well.. Anyone else notice that most the useful chef Recipes dont take Chef food Components they take Artisan or Alchool ?"
Just for reference, when the recipe calls for "alcohol", you can use any of the component alcohols, not just the initial "alcohol" item.
Just for reference, when the recipe calls for "alcohol", you can use any of the component alcohols, not just the initial "alcohol" item.
ReblSoldier
Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:19 pm
#12
Just for reference, when the recipe calls for "alcohol", you can use any of the component alcohols, not just the initial "alcohol" item.
===========================================================
I know that , im saying most of the useful recipese call for alcohol and the ones that ask for food components tend to the crappier recipese anyways
Camenai
Fri Sep 05, 2003 2:29 pm
#13
"Although I have to say +10, or +4 seconds is not very useful to me, especially when the components can't be crated so they fill up my inventory and prevent use in a factory"
I totally understand and appreciate your comment, Ida, but look at Bivoli, for example. When I use the micro nutrients in the Bivoli that I hand craft, we are talking an extra minute or more.... I only use the micro nutrients (the duration enhancers) on the foods that already have a decent duration, that way, you get more out of the enhanced percentage.
Cami
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