Chef Archive
Thread: No Good Stat buffs = Shove this revamp you know where
1. This buffs have been balanced with the new ham system, which is coming I believe in the patch after this. In it, mind is going to be a lot less important. If we were to ask for this now we would just need to ask them to redo it for the new ham system when it comes out.
2. With the addition of cups and biochemical components in all schematics we have gained a lot more flexibility to create schematics, not lost it.
3. Let them? How the hell am I suppose to let or not let anybody to do anything? I can bring them informatin, which is what I have been doing...I can beg them to come here and read, which is what I have been doing..
SirVimes wrote:
1. This buffs have been balanced with the new ham system, which is coming I believe in the patch after this. In it, mind is going to be a lot less important. If we were to ask for this now we would just need to ask them to redo it for the new ham system when it comes out.
I disagree about the experimental thing. Yes we can use bigger glasses to make more servings of drinks. The food sucks so bad that using BE components are not optional but mandatory. If when making food the ability bonus can not be changed, the stack size can not be changed just exactly where are you seeing all this extra experimentation? I see someone with crappyingredients and no clue what they are doing making the exact same thing as me except mine lasts 1round longer (exp mod food).
Right now I make almost 600 buff fishak, other people are making 440-500 fairly commonly. Thats a big difference based on ingredients and experimentation due to the subcomponents. After the patch with our big buffs being like 125...theres not room for much difference. Yay, Ill make 125 and holochef next door makes 120. Thats not big enough to care about in my book. Yes, buffs are more customizable in that you can add a glass to make more servings of very uninteresting drinks. Big deal...at the cost of an extra 60,000 credits worth of resources PER CASE.
You can add additives...or perhaps I should say, we will be required to add additives to make anything worthwhile. We can gain variety because the additives can be made by the BEs in several ways. But no, I dont see gaining experimentation in the food arena one bit. All I see is minuscule amounts that are so small a 10% better combine is almost nonexistant in comparison to the lesser combine. Yea we can experiment on 4 bars instead of 3 now. But now the difference that experimentations reaps is next to nil.
Yea there are a few decent subpool buffs. Except oh wait, they last 3 minutes and are 80+ filling.
Revamp is a joke. Nothing but a ridiculous pathetic nerf to one of the few classes everyone thought was impossible to nerf.
And another thing...Why is that other classes get talked to before and during their revamp by a dev (Th mostly) and we dont even get a freaking hi post? CHs had a discussion about theres, DEs seem to be having multiple discussions about theres (course it sounds more like it was yea we hear you talk but dont care) Sony doesnt give a flip about chefs, what we have to say or what we think or anything else..(seebroken factories,no flora harvs other than personal, stack bug which*cough* didnt exist, the food bug thatkilled people that was known about on test and pushed live anyway and was onlive almost a month before they acknowledged it in passing). I might faint if a dev actually posts on this forum sometime in the next 5 years.
I feel fairly confident that Im gonna have abunch of ruined crates on my hands after the patch now and frankly I doubt we'll get an ackowledgement of if thats gonna be fixed before going live. Heck knowing it destroys the old crates, I be they still wont even tell us before the patch hits to give us a chance of uncrating the food.Its got to be an uber secret when they might patch afterall.
Im done for the night, no more foul venting from me tonight.
Nikkii,
Unfortunately, right now, I agree with you about every single issue on there. I was going to make a post mentioning my...difficulty with the miniscule difference experimentation seems to be making on our only truly innovative or interesting buffs (Ormachek, Flameout, Pyollian)but you summed it up quite...summarily. And no lie, I have had more Devs talk to me IN GAME than will so much as say "Hi" to us on the boards. That is kinda sad. I mean, if I didn't have a totally huge crush on SirVimes, I don't even know what I would be doing here after all this revamp insanity. I mean...I <3 food. 
Anyway, I think the two things I would appreciate more than anything right now are the following:
1. An explanation of how our buffs will fit in with the new HAM system. Without this, we can not judge any sort of effectiveness of the buffs. If we are told, "Oh, specials will now cost under 10 HAM each, so test using weapons that are very low HAM for how BoH holds up now" that is something that is VERY good to know going into this. Or even an explanation of what we would want with something like:"Increases the assembly roll of the next crafting attempt: +5" I mean, will anyone use this? I think the threat of crit failing on something to decrease the rate of crit failing is scary enough that no one will dare try to make it! If someone can explain to us logically why things have been changed to the way they are, I would have a lot better feeling about the purpose, if not the end result of this "more interesting and powerful set of effects and buffs and more flexibility in experimentation" as quoted from the patch notes. I have yet to see the more powerful ones, at least that are meant for player consumption, and we already covered experimentation. Adding one stat to experiment on by way of adding a pretty unreasonabe timer is not flexibility. It is quite obviously forcing us to do something, not giving us more options.
2. More Cowbell. Well, that and our rp abilities back. Wedding cakes would be a start, buffet tabes would rock, vertical placement of items in houses, eating and drinking animations...if you didn't have the stats done for the recipes you cut out, you could have just kept them in the skill tree as fun stuff to make for clients who don't care about stat buffs. Lots of people buy food from me for the look of it, and the fact that they have to pay the same price as a powergrinding holofool because I don't know who is using it for what is a frustration of mine.
/rant off, and /fuzzy panda pajama pants on. Night night. 
SirVimes wrote:1. This buffs have been balanced with the new ham system, which is coming I believe in the patch after this. In it, mind is going to be a lot less important. If we were to ask for this now we would just need to ask them to redo it for the new ham system when it comes out.
2. With the addition of cups and biochemical components in all schematics we have gained a lot more flexibility to create schematics, not lost it.
3. Let them? How the hell am I suppose to let or not let anybody to do anything? I can bring them informatin, which is what I have been doing...I can beg them to come here and read, which is what I have been doing..
SirVimes I believe there may be a few things you haven't considered regarding your points...which are quite good, and perfectly valid...but these points are all based in theory, as opposed to in practice.
point #1...new ham system, yes its good that we'll be all set for when the new ham system comes in....but when is that system coming in? if its coming in with the publish after the chef stuff comes in...well we're all pretty screwed. I've seen a few things that might sell really really well in the mean time (dancing enhancement reduction in time could quite possibly be a HUGE seller...as could the experimentation booster)...but even though there may not be any schematics that are completely useless...there isn't anything thats really as useful for the current system as the things we have now are.
point #2...the BE correspondent recently posted the resource requirements for the BE additives (I went to the BE forum to ask directly that he post something there, and possibly here as well...not sure if he had already planned to do so, but it couldn't have hurt). from what I can see, the requirements are still a lot higher than the food itself...with a few exceptions. while the effects of these have not yet been revealed, unless they are truly remarkable...it won't be enough to compensate for the reduced effectiveness of our stat buffs...perhaps on the skill buffs. all of them require meat, and with doctors driving up the market price on meat (30+ cpu for avian meat)...well its getting hard to find suppliers of meat as is, unless we start charging 1000 creds/use like doctors do with their buffs.
point #3...no complaints on that one, I don't know if anyone could do more than what you're doing now SirVimes...but I think that many of us will agree (I know you can't do so publicly SirVimes without getting the boot as correspondent...something none of us want)...the devs seriously need to interact more with the chefs. DE's have gotten HUGE...absolutely HUGE amounts of contact from the devs...CH's got massive attention, as did rangers while they were going through their revamps...so why none for chefs? it seems they've just bypassed us, and gone straight to smugglers.
Perhaps the devs should go back to the basics, and play a few MUD's...anyone who's ever been a serious player on one of those can quickly tell you that giving any fighter class the sanctuary spell is a HUGE mistake, as would giving them any healing spells. there is a reason for mind stats being the most important, and it has nothing to do with doctor buffs, or stat buffs of any kind. take a look at MUD's...if a fighter class has access to healing spells...you'll immediately notice that they'll switch from getting as much HP as possible...to getting as much MP as possible...the same is true for stims, and nearly every single combat oriented player there is.
changing the way ham costs work won't solve the problem...it will only create something different that everyone has to have in order to be the best. changing chef foods to essentially require the assistance of both a master artisan, and master BE...well its simply not fair. yes we can make things without their assistance...but lets face it, our customers have come to expect the best, and once 1 chef finds a master artisan, and master BE to team up with...theres no way the other chefs are going to be able to compete.
if they do this to chefs...why not require WS's to rely on master DE's, and master BE's (targetting systems, and blaster gas)...or have armorsmiths rely on master tailors, and master BE's for their products (armor padding, and transforming organic elements into useable components). or maybe have BE's rely on master doctors, and master chefs (to insure a healthy final creature, and to feed the creature).
perhaps there is a method to the devs' madness...but if they won't even treat us chefs the same as the other professions...well they're going to continue to take massive amounts of flak from us, until they prove to us that they're not ignoring us. and yes they do have to prove it, taking a month to even acknowledge a profession breaking bug...not once, but twice...means that they're going to have to earn back every bit of trust that they've lost.