Chef Archive

Thread: The Nerf Bat or No?

Cleopas
Thu Mar 11, 2004 8:56 am
#1

Ok guys/girls, I'd like to see what we think about the changes to the crafting profession. How will this hurt us and will it help us any?


The WS seem to think it is the end for them.


What do you guys think?

Cleopas
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:33 am
#2

mrthx
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:37 am
#3

I am against SARS





Reginald VelJohnson [LGN]
Semmi [CAKES]

Cleopas
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:40 am
#4






mrthx wrote:
I am against SARS





as in the disease? me too.....

sciguyCO
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:48 am
#5

Requiring 10 experimentation points to max out a single category no matter what the max is seems a little extreme. IMO keeping a similar scaling but being able to reach max in 8 points would allow more variety in multi-category items. Or maybe have the percent gain depend on both the resource quality and the number of categories in the item.


Thunderheart wrote a post the other day saying that there would be a description of the new system getting posted, althouh he had said it was going to be yesterday. I'm curious to see the design decisions that went into this change: whether it's intended to bring down the power level of crafted items, what benefits it might have to crafters (such as amazing success increasing the max potential), and how resources with "capped" stats are supposed to be handled.






Kriles Ch'artoff , Chilastra server
Master Chef (retired)
Currently doing....stuff
Cleopas
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:19 am
#6

I really scared that this is gonna be bad


someone comfort me

yashasghost
Thu Mar 11, 2004 11:39 am
#7

thing that sucks for chefs is the multi run components forfoods and drinksmean that there's no waychefs can stock up on schematics... make what you can now because the quality will fall... i'm not sure the impact will be as hard felt for chefs as say for WS ans AS, but none the less...
sciguyCO
Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:22 pm
#8






Ragnaat wrote:

Should I be worried about things like this, or is brandy normally so close to 50% that it takes minimal work to get it under? (also worried about filling + quality of other foods like sytnsteak, but eating multiple of those takes time + some digestion so the numbers are already kinda fungible)




The highest filling brandy I've made was 53 or so, and that was with some pretty crappy resources (while testing the revamp foods on TC). Some analysis based on the filling experimental percentages suggests that a 0% filling (say after a crit fail) would have a filling of 55. With most of my live resources, I usually get 50 Filling without any experimentation, sometimes 49.


One place where this would cause some problems would be the desserts that buff secondary stats. If you experiment Won-won, Kiwik Swirl or Vagnerian Canape up to around 55%, you get 33 filling, allowing you to eat three. Right now this usually eats up around half my experimentation points, after the experimentation change I'd either have to spend more points or find fruit and berries with near-perfect OQ and DR.


The revamp food chart has a range for the majority of the stats (I really should finish those up...), you can use that to estimate where unexperimented foods would start, it's generally about 15% between min and max.






Kriles Ch'artoff , Chilastra server
Master Chef (retired)
Currently doing....stuff
Isnelav
Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:30 pm
#9

i dont like the sound of this, i usually have a few points left over which i use on filling/duration so im gonna miss out on them few extra point which can make the differencebetween an average/good product



Talonn MASH
Master Chef/Swordsman

Ragnaat
Thu Mar 11, 2004 2:32 pm
#10

OK, I guess I see why there isn't as much of a freakout here as, say, the WS board. I mean even with something like sythnsteak you can probably ignore filling & charges (if you're not already) and then you're left with % defense and duration in # of hits but either of those are pretty flexible and I don't think I'd notice a difference between 40% & 44% nor 29 hits vs. 30 or 31 hits. Sound like I have it right here?



:: Retired... For the moment ::
-I support going slow and being careful.
focus thread (n.): there for us to focus on while they went behind our backs and did whatever they wanted to, anyway. (Source: AngusMacGregor)
FoxWanderer
Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:04 pm
#11

Yeah, for chefs it won't be a very big deal. Most of our foods will be a little weaker. But hey, they'll still be a lot better than they were before the revamp, and since they are consumables the prepatch foods will leave circulation relatively quickly, so you won't be competing against prepatch recipes for long.



Aurin Huntsbridge
Chef/Artisan/Surveyor
(Still a Ranger at heart)
Numen
Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:20 pm
#12

I don't think a whole lot of chefs are getting excited over it because all of it is being said on the WS board. The devs would have to be complete morons if they haven't at least realized a majority of the players don't want this change.


But with that said the devs still think this is a good thing. I really want to see the reasoning behind it. It just seems that no matter what we say on the topic it isn't going to matter. I have yet to see 1 crafter say this is a good thing overall.


ANYTHING with multiple useful lines of experimentation takes a hit. Even if that hit is very small it is still a nerf. This change basically says every crafted item out there is too powerful so we will tone everything down a little bit. I am running as much BE brandy as I can before the change goes in. Right now I can get 43-44 minutes 400ish Buff. It will be 38ish/400 or 45/350 after the change. Both of which are completely unacceptable to me.



Now will I deal with it if the change goes through? Yes, just like all the rest of the nerfs. But this change definately looses some interest for me in chef crafting. The one huge bonus I thought Chefs had was multiple lines of experimentation that while they might not have been equal they were very close. You rarely ever see HAM maxed and resists secondary on armor or Accuracy maxed and dmg second on weapons.


Power might be the biggest boost in many foods, but filling and duration are very close if not better under certain cases. No other crafting profession has that. This change takes a lot of that away. 3 in one, 4 in another 3 in another was a good thing. Now a good thing was taken away for from what I can see no reason.


The only reason I have seen a dev mention is that there were multiple minor bugs in professions that could'n't be fixed because of the way crafting works. So they changed the way crafting works. The issue is that I haven't see any of that minor bugs in any patch notes.



Amandil Morier - Tempest - Master Chef
FoxWanderer
Thu Mar 11, 2004 4:41 pm
#13

I think that one of the major reasons for the toning down is the fact that the game is pretty easy. With the buffs that are available to everyone, and the armor, and the weapons, the PvE game (with the exception of a few mobs and the Gen Labs) is almost rote repetition. There isn't any challenge there.


There are only 2 ways to fix that:


1) Buff up every creature in the game. (unfortunately this would require a nerf to the CH class to keep them in line, and would be seen as a nerf by the BE profession since their pets would be less powerful in comparison to the new creatures).


2) Reduce the power level of the common items in the game (read: crafted items). This is a nerf to all crafters, but not really, because it's a lowering of the power level for EVERYONE. Nobody will be exempt. Eventually the whole game will be a little more challenging, and give the devs room to add in more special items in quests and/or loot drops that make up that difference without taking away from the scale of the game.


What is bad is that even though this change affects everyone, it will hurt crafters with gated resources the most. That means armorsmiths, certain weapon schematics (and the classes that use them), and probably certain consumable crafters. Anything that requires metal_x to have good CD (or whatever property), when metal_x never spawns with CD over 200, will suffer the most.


I say that we won't suffer much because none of the organics are gated, and most chefs don't use low quality resources.We maylose 50pts of buff on Vasarian Brandy, but even after losing 50 ptsyou can keep a +700 buff up continuously, which is stillan awesome mind buff. And hopefully after this change settles down we'll see some rare loot drops a little more often, like somedrops that turn your everyday +700 buff into a +1400 buff. It would definitely help break up the grind of pumping out the same thing every day.



Just my 2 credits.




Aurin Huntsbridge
Chef/Artisan/Surveyor
(Still a Ranger at heart)
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