CUEmu - Thread Posts

Vishna

Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:55 pm

As my ship sails away into the distance I thought that I would discuss the future of the Chef Prof.

Just for background, Ive been a Chef since the first month of release, It took me months to reach Master as I didnt grind it, but explored it.

I grew to become the top Chef on my server and became a shrewd busines woman. I gained a lot of wealth and in turn used it to sponser activities on my server to better the community as a whole. I've also been a regular here on the Chef boards for just about as long.

The Chef boards grew to become a small tight knit community of people willing to stick through the rampant game breaking bugs that plaqued us for the first 5 months of the game. We were kind, helpfull and Intense. Not that we didnt squabble, but it was always taken for what it was. Trying to better our profession and it's Chefs.

We experimented, talked, compared notes and eventually began to build the chef proffession up from a joke to a nessicity of the high end gamer. The few of us that took the profession seriously became well known and wealthy and all was good.

Then came the holos...

On our backs, the grinders thatcame with their constant spam and disrespect, realised that they could make money from our efforts on their way to the coveted Force slot. Our markets shrank for a bit. The market was flooded with sub-par products. Luckly the consumers and the MMORPG Min/Max effect took hold.

Customers became picky when they realized that a true Chef could make a quality +600 fishak instead of the +430 of the fly by night holochef. All was good again.

Now comes the "revamp"

Is it a good thing? Time will tell.

The problems with it so far is that the seperation of the Hard working true chefs and the Flavor of the month and hologrinder chefs has now been all but removed. The quality of the materials that before were so carefully scrutinized by true chefs are not a major factor anymore. When you can use +900 ingredients and get a +300 buff or use the worst crap you can find and get a +280 it becomes a non-factor really. (there have been quite a few test of this effect)

SO what will seperate the sought after chefs from the run of the mill chefs now? Bio-engineers access.

A lot of the newer chefs are touting the fact that basic non-BE enhanced foods will sell and that you will be able to survive without them. True for now. The foods are new, people are exploring them. But soon (and trust me, this will happen) the Min/Max effect will take hold. Chefs with the ability to master BE or have ready access to a BE as in second accounts or dedicated guild memebers willing to make schematics will pull out ahead.

Can you get BE's to make you some tissues? Sure, but the real question is can you get a BE to make you massive amounts of tissues for months on a regular basis. I doubt it, unless you are one of the lucky few mentioned above.

Whats the problem with that? Well it takes the skill away from the Chef entirely and makes it a logistic aquisition problem instead. Chefs unable to collect the resources and produce there own BE tissues will be in competition with the chefs that can. Profit margins will plumet because of the huge cost of producing food and drink nowmaking it more adventagous to merely sell the resources than bother making the food for those chefs.

Newer chefs are also saying that its better now because all the new schematic are usefull and that have so much more to make. Also true for now, but after Min/Max takes over in a month or so you'll see that your just making Brandy instead of fishak now as your main runs. You'll throw in a couple of the more usefull things now and then for variety on your vendor just as I once put veghash and flameouts on mine.

All in all the revamp has pretty much succeded only in making the process of crafting food and drink more labor intesive and costly in the long run while removing the subtle skill involved. When all is said and done BE's will be the true master Chefs not the chefs themselves.

Ok im done now, I'll fade of into obscurity with a lot of the old masters and leave it to the new chefs. I wish you all luck with the new changes. I hope im wrong, but i doubt it.

Master Chef Vishna Fleetfoot

Proud member of Coventry
Owner and operator of CLUB V in New Coventry city on Corellia!
SIRVIMES (chef correspondent)
"I hereby pronounce Vishna the Evil Chef! Fear her!"

Meplorium

Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:27 pm

#2

I guess I am one of those nasty flavor of the month dual account chefs. However I've been thinking about doing chef for some time and even had a kitchen set up months ago. I had smuggler and a chef grind their way up in my kitchen and as merchant I sold their goods. With vehicles I no longer needed scout and marksman to do harvester runs.With the revamp anddeed saturation shutting down my architect business once again,it was a natural to putall those extra points went into chef.

I have mixed feelings about the BE additives. My pet wookie is a MBE but mostly cause he is a MCH and good pets are hard to find unless you make them yourself. His data pad has some of the best pets in the galaxy. So the BE additives for chef has an added bonus but I would have done BE and chef anyways. My mixed feelings come from the difficulty in crafting the food with BE parts and the difficulty in getting the meat for them. However I am in a good position to sell food that most chefs are not. Still even for me the food is difficult to make.

The resource comment is well put. Good resources should make a bigger difference. Great resources should make food as well as using crappy BE additives. Great resources with great BE additives should make godly food. This isn't the case. In some reguards that is good, one less thing to worry about in an already difficult process. At the same time, that godly food will never be makable.I would like to see resources be more important though. 12 experimentation points should make a difference as well. Right now it is only a slight difference. I don't personally have 12 points, but it is something to aspire to, which right now seems a complete waste of money.

Once I run out of meat, I am out of business just like all the other chefs. It is a great neutralizer.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
Visit the commerce district, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine.
The Armored Wookiee - Kashyyykian Armor Specialist
The Bacta Tank - Food, Drink and Stims
Grimy Shack - Tools, Vehicles and Ships
Special Orders Welcome, Send Mail.

neinnunb

Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:33 pm

#3

Here is my personal opinion: Except for making pets, BE's only market are other crafters. Chefs and Tailors. If the additives are not as powerful as they are now, then no chef would consider buying it. The difference in foods with and without additives are the cost to the end user. That high cost alone can keep foods without additives in the market. Things like Travel Biscuits, Spiced tea and many others are great without additives and cheap to produce. People will buy them.

Asfor having to rely on BE's.. other professions do exactly as some have stated in this thread. You say you are a "shrewd business woman" and take pride in that fact. Then I think finding other BE's and doing business with them is part of the fun of being a business woman/man. If you dont find that fun and challenging, then you are contradicting yourself by saying you are a good business woman.

                          .=+.             ------------------
                  \`--._,'.::.`._.--'/   _/ May the CU       \
Acktu - Sunrunner   .  ` __::__ '  .   _/ \ be with you      /
Beta 3, JTL,          -:.`'..`'.:-         ------------------
ROTW & TOW Beta tester  \ `--' /
                          `--'

Vishna

Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:44 pm

#4

Goodness people, my point isnt the interdependecy factor of BE's. Notice that nowhere did I mention the interdependecy of chefs and Master Artisans or with tailors. Thats not the point. Im fine with some interdependecies.

My point is that while the components from Artisans and tailors are just that, components. Fine. But the BE additives are what makes or breaks the food not the talent of the chef.

As far the the guy above me talking about the business woman thing, that made no sense what so ever hun. I might be offended but that was just to confusing to be, either way it doesnt matter, I mean, My account expires in 4 days and I wont really care anymore. But if you want to bring it up then who exactly is interdependent with us? What do we make as chef's that another proffession NEEDS to make their product? Last time i checked no one NEEDED our products.

(oh and Nikii ive got a seat right next to mine in the captains mess anytime you want to board hun )

Message Edited by Vishna on 02-13-2004 05:49 PM

Master Chef Vishna Fleetfoot

Proud member of Coventry
Owner and operator of CLUB V in New Coventry city on Corellia!
SIRVIMES (chef correspondent)
"I hereby pronounce Vishna the Evil Chef! Fear her!"

DashZero

Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:49 pm

#5

Nikkii Nightstrider - Eat, Drink and Be Merry!
Eat at Nikkii's - Fine Foods and Fashions
Nabubu (-1400, -4030)
Coronet (524,-5244)

Vayde_Aren

Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:51 pm

#6

I feel Vishna's pain. I used ot be very happy being completely independant as a chef. I kept enough pistoleer and scout to be able to hunt my own organics, and ran enough harvesters to supply the rest. I had my own shop, it was all very pat and nice.

It was also kinda lonely. I needed very little from my small PA or its members, and ran across other artisans only when i needed to buy the odd weapon or bit of furniture.

After the patch, I joined a conglomerate of chefs, BEs [my PA chief among them], and Ranger-types. And am finding myself in the company of some nice people, with whom I am actually interacting, looking forward to actually cresting that 500k mark in my cobwebby bank.

I mourn the loss of my independance. But I welcome new friends and associates, new direction, and social cooperation.

One thing I will add: once again, many details of our revamp show that we are dealing with chimps trying to type Shakespeare. So much of this game seems to be about increasing work. Why do the Devs believe that taking stuff away and increasing work = fun? I'll never understand.

VAYDE AREN
R

Killtacular

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:02 pm

#7

"Whats the problem with that? Well it takes the skill away from the Chef entirely and makes it a logistic aquisition problem instead. Chefs unable to collect the resources and produce there own BE tissues will be in competition with the chefs that can. Profit margins will plumet because of the huge cost of producing food and drink nowmaking it more adventagous to merely sell the resources than bother making the food for those chefs."

/applaud

Man, Vish is going too

At least when I was making ONLY fishak and glucose, it wasmy CHEFtalent that made my product superior. Now it appears the Chefs with the best networking ability will float to the top. I don't mind the interdependence, but that should be a 2 way street. Who depends on Chef?

Meplorium

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:33 pm

#8

Vishna wrote:

Goodness people, my point isnt the interdependecy factor of BE's. Notice that nowhere did I mention the interdependecy of chefs and Master Artisans or with tailors. Thats not the point. Im fine with some interdependecies.

My point is that while the components from Artisans and tailors are just that, components. Fine. But the BE additives are what makes or breaks the food not the talent of the chef.

I am quite capable of making food without BE addtives, however I seem unable to make a cask without trim. Now that is making or breaking. For those with BE additives, charge a lot for them. This is very helpful to those that do not have full access to additives as it leaves them the value market. It also helps out with supply and demand as demand for food with additives will be much greater than the supply.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
Visit the commerce district, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine.
The Armored Wookiee - Kashyyykian Armor Specialist
The Bacta Tank - Food, Drink and Stims
Grimy Shack - Tools, Vehicles and Ships
Special Orders Welcome, Send Mail.

MilkToast

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:39 pm

#9

Does anyone know whether the reduced effect of experimentation is a bug or by design? I sure hope its just a bug.

I really enjoy crafting (was a long time weaponsmith), and have been planning on becoming a chef but I don't want any part of profession in which experimentation is meaningless. I'm not even sure how you can call it crafting when there's no craft involved.

Isis

Thoth Master Doctor, Master Chef
Isis Master Rifleman, Master Bio-Engineer
Great Bio-Engineered Foods and Beverages
@ -3643 4571 Theed, Naboo
Ahazi, Server

mesome

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:57 pm

#10

I just recently got master chef, I've always wanted to do both chef and bio-engineer so I thought this patch would be great but now I don't know what to think. I like being able to use my bio components but should they really be essential to getting a high quality food? oh well, I'll keep plugging away at it and see how it all pans out. Btw, Vishna, you said it beautifully it's kina a bummer to become enthused about doing a new profession only to seesome of thepeople that have been a lasting part of the community leave.

Bloodfin

Prolux Wolff (Master Doc / TKM) That's my template and I'm sticking to it.

HoKieVT - "I am having a Jaedewitch is stupid day."

Vishna

Fri Feb 13, 2004 4:58 pm

#11

Meplorium wrote:

I am quite capable of making food without BE addtives, however I seem unable to make a cask without trim. Now that is making or breaking. For those with BE additives, charge a lot for them. This is very helpful to those that do not have full access to additives as it leaves them the value market. It also helps out with supply and demand as demand for food with additives will be much greater than the supply.

And your quite capable of making food without casks. Whats your point?

Master Chef Vishna Fleetfoot

Proud member of Coventry
Owner and operator of CLUB V in New Coventry city on Corellia!
SIRVIMES (chef correspondent)
"I hereby pronounce Vishna the Evil Chef! Fear her!"

Vishna

Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:15 pm

#12

You know another weird thing i see happening, the suprising amount of new chefs willing to make sub-par buffs.

Half of the arguments are that the lowest buff a chef can produce will be good enough for the masses. (twich, twich)

Guess im old school, well no guessing to it. I am old school, but the whole point to being a good chef in my day was the pride and competition in having the best buffs and selection on the server.

Master Chef Vishna Fleetfoot

Proud member of Coventry
Owner and operator of CLUB V in New Coventry city on Corellia!
SIRVIMES (chef correspondent)
"I hereby pronounce Vishna the Evil Chef! Fear her!"

kelela

Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:47 pm

#13

Good post Vishna...sniff*sniff, so sad to hear you're leaving. Though I do not post much, I was the silent part of the chef community who started chef from the beginning and read the posts for guidance along the way. To see the old Masters leaving on by one...well, makes me teary-eyed and sad. Good luck in whatever you.

With regards to comparing Tailor products to Chef food...no can do. There is a demand for just "plain" clothing as well as bio-enhanced clothing. People who just want to "look good" will buy any kind of tailored clothing. Combat oriented players will look for clothing that's bio-enhanced. So for Tailors, you've actually got 2 groups of people to market to. The vanity issue can still keep tailors not associated with BEs or their products alive.

The only reason people would want food is for the buff or skill enhancements. Hardly anyone goes to the bazaar or vendor wanting to buy a pie because they feel like eating a pie that day. Do you see the diff?

Unless you're catering a party, people will only be looking to food for the buff/skill-enhancing benefits. So this supports Vishna's arguement that those with the BE connections will be the winners on the chef market. I have people /tell'ing me asking for stats. Y'know how much business I've lost because I couldn't match the duration or the buff of another chef? They wouldn't buy my food without an additive.

There was another post that mentioned if the market was balanced and that if all food was priced accordingly, then there would still be a market for the lower valued foods...but how many posts have we seen that scream for a balance in the market pricing? Unless someone comes out with a common pricing list for this new chef revamp (and assuming everyone follows it) - there will still be a big difference in pricing. Some will charge according to resources + factory run costs while others will charge according to bonus level or a combination of both these ideas. There is no guarantee of a stable market in pricing and so to hope for a balanced market to save those chefs without BE access is a hope at best.

If you are a chef - you NEED to find yourself a BE - that is the bottom line. Else, you need to be content with a menial amount of sales off your vendor from the occassional "newbie" who doesn't know any better or from a desperate combatant who needs anykind of food at that moment.

There could be one positive way to look at the new chef-revamp. With the increased amount of work & resources that it takes now to make a particular food product combined with the really specific skill enhancements of each food, chefs may be forceed to become "specialized". There might be no way to cover the entire line of chef foods. There was a demand for certain foods before being that only certain foods were able to counter spice downers or function as armor lube...but now with the many different skill enahancements - the demand could be overwhelming for even the most experienced chef. Just take a look at the posts of those updating their stock on the boards...I see them posting twice as much as before and now posting specific # of crates available since they're selling so fast! There have been some talking about being strictly a TKA Chef or another a CH chef. hehe, there is even food just for pets! You could be a pet food chef! (how exciting) But who knows, with all this diversifying of the food we couldsee a transformation of the chef profession in the next few months. Let's see how the current Master's handle this and how the up and coming ones will try to compete. I'm particularly curious to see how Gotik will remarket his Coffee and Donuts. Ivy'za is already cranking out the new stuff. (Corbantis shout-out)

Either way - good luck to you all...now back to cooking.

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