Chef Archive
Thread: Chef Food Stat Calculation and Experimentation is Broken (DISSERTATION)
When an artisan expects to make a high quality weapon powerup, they use a metal with a good Overall Quality score. With the best materials they start out with 0.1% weapon boost to a single stat (0% effectiveness). With all experimentation points,one can often expect a 30% stat A,15% stat B boosting weapon powerup - which equates to 90-98% experimented effectiveness. Awesome!
When an architect wants to design a superior craft station, they take superior Conductivity materials and then add good quality optional parts (control unit, droid storage module, etc). Starting out at neg 1 to zero craft station rating (0% effectiveness) the experiment work of a master architect can boost this craft station's effectiveness to the 40 rating (90-96% experimented effectivness). Wonderful!
When a master chef or homemaker wants to cook some delicious food, they look to harvest materials with good Overall Quality, Potential Energy and Flavor. With seemingly superior materials, a master chef/homemaker before experimentation can ONLY get a 3% duration boost max, a 15% nutritional stat boost max and around a 30% boost to overall charges BEFORE experimentation. Puzzled look??
Experimentation is where it really hurts. Overall charges can be experimented up to 90% (8 charges on most food). Nutritional value can be experimented only up to 50% experimental effectiveness which sadly does NOT equate to 50% boost in nutritional value for a food - it depends on the food you are making. And last and definitely least - duration can only be pushed up to a whopping TEN percent experimental effectiveness. And worst of all , a master chef or artisan has to spend ALL their experiment points (10) to bring up only ONE attribute to the very best it can be. In other words, one has to spend ALL 10 experiment points to get 90% Overall charges OR 50% nutritional value OR (gasp!) 10% duration/filling value.
This leads me to conclude
--->>> The food statistics and experimentation formula is bugged. <----
This has a large impact to the overall creation, use and play style around food
1) Materials quality seemingly irrelevant - The bugged formula explains why the selection of the materials used in making food is a relative guessing game as opposed to values reflective of the schematics. One can create similar stat food with seemingly inferior materials.
2) Poor comparitive quality of food buffs - Since experimentation is broken, this explains why the quality of food buffs doesnt improve as one goes up the chef tree versus lower level chef or even artisan foods. Lower level foods are pretty close to the max stats they receive, while the higher foods must and should depend on experimentation.
A good reflection of how this should work is with pistols.Using dmg as an example, poorly made CDEF newbie pistol (15min-30max dmg) is relatively close to a well designed one.(30min-60max). The higher level FWG5 gun,poorly made(40min-80max), is slightly above in dmg score to a well made CDEF but a well crafted FWG5(55min-200max) is nearly FOUR times better. All these scores are reasonable ranges before slices and other powerup "buffs".
3) Poor ingame value of food buffs - Since the true max potential values of food buffs are unknown due to the broken experimentation, the current values we see in food is the best one can hope for. They are poor compared to spices, doc buffs and even scout foraged food. Experimentation has to be fixed so the true maximum stats of chef foods can be seen before any proper balance pass can be worked on the class.
4) Master chef/higher chef tiers are useless - Since food doesnt ramp up properly buff wise and the experimentation doesnt work , higher chef tiers are rendered impotent. Master chef adds only ONE point to experimentation. Higher tiered food stays weak since their true potential cannot be uncovered.
(Sidenote: Its my opinion the current most efficient use of points in this class becomes Entrees II,Mix II and Experiment IV. I have my mind stat boost food (Ormacheck), all HAM drink (Ver Berry Wine), regen boost food (Veghash) and my super action drink(Tat Sunburn) - all with the max charges of 8-10 for 32 skill points. 25 points I could have spent to master can be instead used for combat and scout skills to help me hunt and harvest meat and hides )
The factory and farm bugs , happily fixed, affected multiple classes. Broken schematics, nonexistant materials (milk) and lack of roleplay (chef hats and food emotes) are noteworthy issues for the chef. However, the broken food stat and experiment calculator and the current bug where one cannot even EAT food which has been documented in other places essentially cripple the chef class and limits usefulness of artisan food.
Yours truly,
Quintis Seratonin
Master Chef - Intrepid
PA - www.phank.com <http://www.phank.com>
Good post. I have seen flavor and texture max out at around 80%, but only on foods using largelyinorganics and hides. While there may theoretically be a way to hit 100% potential on all 3 stats, the stats that get you there are illogical and not even in normal organics.
Very well written and explained.
Perhaps if experimentation was working properly we could see the true stats for Master and 4th tier level foods. Currently for example if a Master Food does +300, thats a nice looking buff, IF you could eat more than 1. Most 4th tier foods and Master foods you can only eat 1. Now if experimentation was working properly and the true stats were even greater, that would explain why a consumption rate of only 1 is in effect.
Food Should Rock seeing how the whole profession is based on buffs... Some ppl say it takes way more to become a master doctor and i respond:
Why yes it does but do we get cure poison,Heals,Revives... No we dont so either we should get some CLASS defining stuff or they should make our buffs super potent at a master lvl
Udun
Since factories have come online, I have done some experimentation with the materials to find that, while they aren't done quite as you might expect, the material quality matters quite a bit. Very nice materials will give you at least a 50% boost in all stats from poor materials. I have tested some of the problems that have been discussed on the boards:
Flavor does not appear to be used in calculation - Creating foods with a wheat that has OQ/PE/FLAV of approx. 760/510/980 and 750/530/120 yields almost the exact same results.
Radioactive PE stat is not used in the calculation - Several tests using steel of quality 950 (no PE) and radioactive of OQ/PE 970/750 yielded results where the steel was better. Either PE is assumed to be 1000 (not likely) or unit toughness might be used in the calculation.
Unit Toughness stat is used in the calculation - After testing steel with similar OQ and different UT, toughness appears to be used. Radioactives do not contain UT, so this might also explain what happened. I have not tested wood and other flora against each other where applicable (wood contains UT, while all other flora do not). I have no idea what the proposed amount of inflence it has. Anyone have any data to surmise?
Quantity Formula works for max experimentation, others do not - OQ 992 gas gives 98% quantity experimentation when it is the only factor (sunburns). Most quantity formulas are 100% OQ influence and this is almost definitely correct. Quantity experimentation is entirely linear (if change from 50-60% yields one more, then change from 80-90% yields one more). Since FLAV is not really calculated, then it is hard to tell what the power/duration experimentation stats could be (although a 50/50 split between OQ and PE doesn't appear to be true). More experimentation is needed.
Experimented components do impact final quality...just not as much as they probably should - Starshine surprises comprise 80% of the total sunburn resources, yet they do not influence the outcome as much as it should. Starshines at experimentation stats of 13/8/15 yeild a sunburn that is only 15-20% weaker than a sunburn made with starshines of 68/72/22 quality. I don't think that really encourages using quality resources on components (note, this is the only experiment on the subject. if anyone has done BoH experiment with Min/Max aludium, I would love to see your notes).
That's my notes for now, if you disagree, please explain your logic, I would love to hear it.
Excellent post!
I just trained Novice Chef, but I am having serious doubts about how it will work out for me. The high level Chef foods seem ridiculously low in the buffs they provide, and the duration is way too short. They also fill you up for far too long in comparison to the very short buff duration.
The Chef Profession needs some serious help! I am really hoping that we get it soon. I think that your ideas on improving experimentation could make a big difference. Top level Chefs need to be able to make much more powerful items than is possible at the moment.
Aurorra Lightstar- Novice Chef- Tarquinas
just a little bit of facts on doctor to chef exp in rough figures
Master chef takes 808000 food crafting exp
stim crafting level 4(the buff line) takes 95000 crafting exp.
if a chef was able to craft a Ithorian Mist from novice to master (which they cant)
asumming they get 190 exp per mist crafted it would take the chef 4253 crafts if they recieved no Critical Failures
If the doctor crafting there advanced components that take lok wheat from level 1 to level 4(which they cant)
it would take them 1067 crafts to obtain master level in crafting from there on its easy sailing to master doctor buffing pets.
no take for the average Chef to Reach Mixology 2 using Wastil bread.
it would take them 1169 crafts with not critical failures to reach level 2..
Reaslisticly it would take a chef
1169 crafts to obtain the Ithorian Mist
3853 Crafts to go from mix 2 to master
so the realistic number for chef is
5022 crafts with out any Critical Failures to obtain master chef.
Now if you ask me considering the only hard line to level up as a doctor is crafting.... Chef is defently in my opinion the harder of the 2 classes to level up.
In sence of Skill points spent Doctor takes more but as somoene else stated they can do alot more then just buff.. and really Chef Requires things like Engineering and business 3 too really be effective as well as novice scout .. so the skill points may not be required but with out it you hurt pretty bad.
Thank you for your insight. Just a side note, the organic that i used in the construction (it was a starshine) had a PE lower than the radioactive that I was using. Mind you this was about 6 weeks ago, but I'm going to maybe work on a new super spreadsheet to compare min/max data and experimentation. Unfortunatley that will require me to first find similar organics with matching stats in one or two of the categories used for experiments...may take awhile.
BommaDE wrote:
Naturner, I don't think that PE for radioactives is ignored. I think what you are seeing is a counter-intuitive effect of how attributes are calculated: Resources without a particular stat are ignored when averaging that stat. Only if -none- of the resources have a stat is it treated as 0. So your Steel is doing better then you Radio because you have another component (presumably an organic) that has higher PE than the Radioactive. With the steel in, only the organic's PE is used. And the effective PE drops when it gets averaged with the radioactive.