Chef Archive
Thread: Debate thread: Filling remaining on cloning
And i know what PvPers want. But would that be good for the game? Thats a different matter. Most PvPers want to have uber weapons armor. Hell most want frogs on live servers!
Would any of those be good for the game? I don't think they would be simply for the fact that its removes fear of dieing. Which in any RPG should be the last thing you want to do.
I just love SWG and I want less things that make me think "I wish I were playing some other game right now". Having to basically sit out for 30-45 minutes after dying makes me think "I wish I were playing GuildWars right now".
On the other hand, crafting as a Chef, harvesting resources, deciding how to use my resources to provide the best menu options for my customers, and operating and advertising my shop--those things make me think "I'm GLAD I'm playing SWG right now." I really love the crafting aspect and in my opinion the crafting design for the game is FAR more balanced and well-designed than the combat aspects.
That's probably why I stopped being an almost-full time PVPer and became a Chef six months ago and haven't looked back.
But playing a game that handles the various issues around PVP and PVE *well* does make me wish that it were better in SWG.
O.
Clone zerging and sitting on your hands being down for as long as you sometimes are with filling are not ideal situations. A medium needs to be found.
The only thing i can see that would do that is to take off the emphasise of being fully buffed all the time to be combat effective.
Looks at the broad MMO genre. Guildwars is a very niche MMO, look at the top MMO, WoW, you have corpse runs on death, does that sound fun? Does that make some filling remaining seem like a very small inconvinence? You bet it does because filling on death is a small thing in comparison, but its one of the only things that makes people want to live, which in MMO is generally a things that's encouraged. After all there's no Quick save and Quick load in these games. You need to not want to die, it should hurt!
Like i said before it comes down to playstyles, i want people to be discouraged from dieing to make people care about throwing themselves out into crowds of people or NPC's, to make people not want to die.
You want a clone wars, people dieing over and over again with no thought or consquence, this makes the game about who can do it for the longest. Whoever gets bored of dieing over and over loses. Sounds fun huh?
It seems you are coming from the PvE side of things, and i can sympathise, but having filling gone on cloning would really ruin the feel of PvP for me and many of the people i play with.
And finally i would like to point out one thing about these "non fun" waiting periods, and that is this: They are everyhwere in this game. Most pronounced is in profession we play and all crafting profs have. That's factory runs. Are these fun? no. Are these neccesary? Of course. People pumping out mass products in seconds is game breaking. So is people dieing en mass over and over again in a war of attrition.
Every PVPer I have ever discussed the subject with wants filling to clear on cloning, and considers it a bug and/or a flawed design. I don't think I have honestly met any PVPers who like the idea of waiting 45 minutes before they can be competitive to fight.
I don't agree that it's a similar issue to factory runs. I would say that factory runs are an understandable "time sink". I'd prefer to be able to load factories quicker--spending twenty minutes to an hour to load and unload factories because I can only move/stock one item at a time--that's what I would say is a *bad* example of a time sink.
Filling decaying on cloning is also what I'd define as a bad example of a time sink. It's not fun for anybody.
O.
xycadambomb wrote:isnt it a bug that it doesnt?lol
Nope was confirmed as intended as working.
Firstly Zaax i have no interest in keeping filling for my own advantage, hell what advantage could i draw from it? The only one is that i don't want foods to become over powered by filling going on death, then the stats simply being nerfed.
Secondly clone zerging happens now and will happen after the tef changes without the needs for Group teffing. It simply occurs in a town with a faction alignment. In these towns the defenders spawn overt (or will do as special forces in the new system). It would still happen, like it does today.
The main reason i am so opposed to the clone wars style is simply this, i PvPed it for about 4 months, and it led to me quitting PvP for 6 months. Back when farstar started, there was no buffs, armor or food with any decent stats. Best we had was spice and some okish Tat sunburn. In AH and in bestine and other places the fight was won or lost on who manage to keep interested the longest. And if you've ever tried a base raid in that style of game play you would know how impossibly frustarting it is to kill the same group of people over and over and over again, only to be kill off one by one and clone 5k away with no way of continuing the takedown.
Clone wars in that situation makes the defender have almost a insumountable advantage of numbers. Who cares if you lose 3 people just to take out 1 when they're cloned and back fighting again in seconds? Like i said it turns into a war of attrition, which is really not fun.
Thats really all i can say. You want it gone, i want it to remain. You think its game breaking, i think its game saving.
stomachs should be emptied upon cloning because if your in the middle of a 150+ player battle and you have to wait 15-20 mins to eat another brandy is just plain anoying... the battle will be over before you can get 2 more brandys in there...
sciguyCO wrote:
Food is portable, can be used by anyone with no skill point investment, can be used during combat, and has a wide range of useful effects. Give players any means of bypassing this drawback, and you allow them to get somethingfor nothing.
and there is a drawback to food... ITS EXPENSIVE... not just anyone can go out and buy a crate of brandy for 200k+
and i also think that whoever came up with the "clones dont have full stomachs" argument is brilliant...
Solfrann wrote:if you die, and then clone, you are getting a new body correct? Why would the food you just ate still be in there?
No offense, but why would those exceptional tissues you looted off the krayt just before he killed you be on your body after you clone?
Or the 500k credits in cash you just just got before you died in PVP. Or the 6 crates of food you purchased before going to defend the base?
I can understand that it's a gameplay issue, and I personally disagree with it (although it's much better now with 30-minute filling). But real world logic might not be the best argument to use
O.
Zaax wrote:
Higginsis wrote:
Also really when was the last time you died in PvE?
Yesterday i tanked 2 elders and a Protector, aslong as i kept them intimed i killed them with no problem. Only things i die from these days is the high level Tuskens and a elders with a stun baton.
Or the malakeye thing from the FS quest, damn LS, once the synth is out you're done for.
But like i said there are tactics and ways of surving all but the most extreme circumstances, death shouldn't be the easy way out. There shouldn't be a reload button.
Look at XP loss in other MMO's, even level loss for dieing too many times, having filling remaining is such a slight disadvantage its laughable.
Message Edited by Higginsis on 02-20-2005 11:49 PM
well you are obviously a tank, as u said.
I, am not. As a Doc RM, i have no melee def, so the giant krayt dragons , as soon as they KD the tank, come running up to me. and then they hit hard. So i need to use heals. heales uses mind. Also they hit mind too. And rifles uses mind. So even with my mon cal maxed mind, i still need 3x ahrisa and double brandy, to keep my mind up. I am then ok. But i cant last like that foreever. Ad to that the ocational 3k damage hit and i am toast. Ifmy m8t the tank, cant get up fast enough, i WILL die. So yes i am not teh uber player YOU might be.
But after i DO die, i want to come right back, after rebuffing, repaying insurance and redriving back to the action. is this not penelty engouh?? Why must i stop playing? becasue i am not uber enoguh?? that what you are saying. you are saying i dont know how to avoid dieng well enough.It not tactics, any def stacker can not die. Of course a fencercant kill a giant by himself to save his life.
Just becaue YOU manage ok with the current set up, does not mean it does not really inconvienice many other players and styles.
I'm a Doc/Rifleman. If you can't solo a GCK, you're doing something wrong.
You don't need a tank, just 80% Kinetic armour, a decent T21 (no, not a Krayt T21, just a standard one), and getting your focus over 1500 with your armour on. From your comments, I assume you don't understand the way mind stats work.
Why on earth would you take 2 brandies and 3 Ahrisa? Once your focus hits 1500 (with your armour on) your specials will use precisely ZERO mind. 2 brandies and 3 Ahrisa should give a Mon Cal around 3000 focus - so unless you have the worst armour in the history of SWG, you're overdosing there.
If you could be bothered to go get a musician buff, you'd probably need 1 brandy to cap your focus, and the rest of your stomach is just there to have fun with. I recommend Exo-Wafers for a low-filling damage reduction, and Aitha for mind heals. Also, once you have the Krayt down to 50% HAM (or thereabouts), Muon should be a safe bet, you'll kill it before the downer hits.
In short (referencing the highlighted text in your post) - yes, I'm saying you don't know how to avoid dying, and that they shouldn't change the rules of the game just to accomodate people who aren't very good at playing it.
Edit: I apologise if the above sounds harsh.I don't mean to put you down, and some of the game mechanics are things that newer players wouldn't know about. However, I think that, if you aren't sure that you know what you're talking about, it would be better to take a less aggressive attitude towards other players. Feel free to PM me if you want some tips on soloing Krayts, because I assure you that it's easy as a Rifle/Doc. The only problem is thehuge squads of pearl-hunters who will outdamage you 
Message Edited by rgrocott on 03-07-2005 01:15 AM