Chef Archive
Thread: Debate thread: Filling remaining on cloning
EdahFreecloud wrote:I cant belive there is even a question about this. Keeping a stomach full upon death takes this game to a screeeeetching halt. Anyone who argues against removing it hasnt PvPed much or enjoys watching paint dry. For sh!ts sake remove it.
I agree. And as for the "exploits" it was meant to fix--big deal!
I know that I personally would not bother filling up on Bespin Port and then having somebody come kill me or something so I could take more. I'm sure there are some crafters somewhere that would, but you know what? Big deal. Who cares?
The vast majority of the people affected by this rule are PVPers who absolutely hate it. It causes problems in PVP and is a pain in the neck there.
The filling should empty upon cloning.
O.
I'm not going to go over my arguments, you can read them here for yourselves, but removing filling on death would lead to clone wars, a road i don't think suits this game, if any MMO.
Higginsis wrote:
Its not a question of ease, its a question of cost.
SP is the most valuable thing you have, and to have to find somebody to buff you or invest the SP yourself.
Thats a drawback, a cost to the power of the buffs. If filling on death were removed what would be the draw back for food? There wouldn't be one, it would be unbalanced.
PvP is the extreme of this system, and where the most problems like these arrise. There is a certain amount of down time needed, so what. Since when have MMO's or any RPG for that matter been pick and play style games?
It comes down to one thing, balance. For foods to remain balanced they need this drawback, surely you can see that?
why do we need down time? in either PvP OR PvE? becasue we made a mistake? please.
Once you die, you are out of the game now untill your stomach empties.
Balance with food is inherent in the filling system itself. There ARE no drawbacks to buffs. what that i need to get rebuffed by a Doc? big deal, half of us ARE docs, and the other half hang around with them. BUT the doc himself cant buff if he is full!! and if you are fighting high end stuff like krayts, you will usually die full.
I am again replying to this thread, becasue once again, i was forced to finish my game after dieing full. i was not able to rebuff, i was far from a cantina, and thats it. WHY? this is balance? i paid dearly for dieing - in decay, in more food i need to wasts in another buff ect. but worse, i was out of the game, and ended up just going somewhere else, and wasting all the effort that wentinto getting the group togther. there is NO reason to not empty on death. Balance? i have yet to hear a good argument for not emptieing = balance.
PvP? plz, as it is there is clone zerg, crystals, etc etc. this wont break anything. So you re-eat food and you are able to get back into the fight. so what? oh and now that Gtef's are being taken away, this is FAR less a problem.
so please, start advocating a change in this senseless, game killing thing.
Message Edited by Zaax on 02-20-2005 04:03 PM
There's an arena where you click a button and go into a PVP arena with a group of people, fighting against another group of similarly-matched opponents. I played this arena for roughly an hour yesterday, and I died a LOT.
Every single time I died, I said to myself "Thank GOD I am not playing SWG right now, or I would be out of the game for literally 45 minutes." Instead I just clicked the button and went right back into PVP.
Things like searching for a Doctor to buff you, and having to sit out of fighting for 45 minutes when you die, are the DEATH of fun in this game. Most people now understand that if you log on late at night and you can't find a Doc, you may as well log off, because you won't be able to do any adventuring.
And what about people who have one hour to play? And get killed after 10 minutes? Do they "deserve" to be unable to PVP realistically again during their play session? Does it make sense that they have to say basically "Oh well, I have 45 minutes left to play but at that rate I won't be able to eat any food to get my mind bar competitive with my opponents. Might as well log off and go play cards."
Outrageous time/energy sinks like finding a Doc to buff you and filling remaining after cloning are the death of fun in SWG.
O.
Higginsis wrote:
Zaax why do we need downtime? Why do we need death to mine something? Because it adds TACTICS.
no, its adds waste of time. tactics i use when i am alive. As soon as i am dead, i want choices. This removs me from my game. and for what? becausei need to play with tactics? what if i dont like to play with tactics? say i like the brute force tactic. or whatever.
If people and death mean something then people will take care, be scared of running out to a crowd of people to just die because they can't clone and buff up straight away and be back again in 30 secs.
and what is wrong with that? and PvP is only a small part of the game. what about PvE? Sometime u die no matter how well you play. But this stomach thing, the way the game is set up now, is bad. Hmmmmm It just hit me thgouh, that with the CU all this might be a moot point lol.
It may just come down to playstyles, i personally prefer a style with tactics and death meaning something, other prefer to play clone wars.
So you can sit down in the cloner if you want for 40 minuts.
me? i want to get back in the game.
All i'm saying is one of the problems maybe bad stomach management, which is maybe why i don't have as much problem with this system.
If somebody has one single hour to play and they get killed after 10 minutes, their stomach is going to be completely full with no food buffs for the next 35 minutes or so. That's an enormous drag no matter *what* your playstyle is.
They claim the filling remaining on cloning was designed to prevent abuse of foods like Bespin Port and Pyollian Cake, possibly Bivoli as well? I really do not see those as being game-breaking issues.
I see the fact that the game grinds to a halt for 30-45 minutes after you die as a game-breaking issue.
It's an enormous drag and it could be solved, by removing the filling on cloning. That solution would please the vast majority of players and have very little downside for anyone.
O.
Like i've said countless times, the advantage of food, but there are 2 drawbacks? I mean we're lucky already.
Zaax why do we need downtime? Why do we need death to mine something? Because it adds TACTICS.
If people and death mean something then people will take care, be scared of running out to a crowd of people to just die because they can't clone and buff up straight away and be back again in 30 secs.
It may just come down to playstyles, i personally prefer a style with tactics and death meaning something, other prefer to play clone wars.
Higginsis wrote:
Also really when was the last time you died in PvE?
Yesterday i tanked 2 elders and a Protector, aslong as i kept them intimed i killed them with no problem. Only things i die from these days is the high level Tuskens and a elders with a stun baton.
Or the malakeye thing from the FS quest, damn LS, once the synth is out you're done for.
But like i said there are tactics and ways of surving all but the most extreme circumstances, death shouldn't be the easy way out. There shouldn't be a reload button.
Look at XP loss in other MMO's, even level loss for dieing too many times, having filling remaining is such a slight disadvantage its laughable.
Message Edited by Higginsis on 02-20-2005 11:49 PM
well you are obviously a tank, as u said.
I, am not. As a Doc RM, i have no melee def, so the giant krayt dragons , as soon as they KD the tank, come running up to me. and then they hit hard. So i need to use heals. heales uses mind. Also they hit mind too. And rifles uses mind. So even with my mon cal maxed mind, i still need 3x ahrisa and double brandy, to keep my mind up. I am then ok. But i cant last like that foreever. Ad to that the ocational 3k damage hit and i am toast. Ifmy m8t the tank, cant get up fast enough, i WILL die. So yes i am not teh uber player YOU might be.
But after i DO die, i want to come right back, after rebuffing, repaying insurance and redriving back to the action. is this not penelty engouh?? Why must i stop playing? becasue i am not uber enoguh?? that what you are saying. you are saying i dont know how to avoid dieng well enough.It not tactics, any def stacker can not die. Of course a fencercant kill a giant by himself to save his life.
Just becaue YOU manage ok with the current set up, does not mean it does not really inconvienice many other players and styles.
Why not?
If you're playing Doom, or Half-Life or, heck, gin rummy or poker, when you lose, do you want some arbitrary timer keeping you out of play for 30-45 minutes? Or do you want to have the choice to go play again right away?
If you're hunting in a group of friends and you die, do you want to have to tell them "You guys go ahead and hunt without me, my stomach will be full for about 30-45 minutes so I won't be able to keep up with you. You guys go have fun, I will be sitting here with my thumb up my ahrisa."
It's a question of choice. If you appreciate the time-sink of having to sit out of a fight because you think it provides "a necessary downside" to death, you are of course welcome to choose to sit out of the game for 45 minutes after you die.
It's the majority of players who want to be able to go right back into a fight or a hunt, or to rejoin the friends they are playing with, who do not have a choice that is fun.
It's a game, it should be fun. Filling remaining on cloning is not fun. And fixing it has no appreciable downsides.
O.
All i'm saying is lack of food buffs does not kill your game for the full 45m, most times you won't die as soon as you eat the food, and even you can get by on 1 brandy and a ahrisa, its not a question of being fully buffed up all the time, its about making death count, which is one of the main features of this genre of game. Look at any other MMO bar ones like PS and its exactly the same, or even more harsh.
Doom and Half-Life are games. They're things we do to have fun.
SWG is also a game, a thing we do to have fun.
When you die in a game, you want to be able to start playing again right away? Why wouldn't you?
Honestly I don't understand anyone's investment in the idea that we should be forced to sit out and NOT have fun, when we want to go in and play, and have fun.
If you don't want to have fun, then YOU can sit out for 45 minutes. Let the people who actually want to have fun do so, please.
Nobody thinks "Oh what a valiant death, that was certainly important!!" because they now have the "downside" of having to sit and wait for their filling to empty after they die.
They think "This game sucks, why don't they fix that so I can keep playing?"
What's confusing about that?
O.