Chef Archive

Third, I don'tagree withreducing the number of schematics, even temporarily.

Well, as Mick Jagger said, you can't always get what you want but sometimes you get what you need. If enough people are upset about this I will bring it up to the developers, but I doubt it will do any good. Remember, experimentation is being redone as well, not just the actual buffs. The old schematics probably will not work well with the new experimentation system. Still, most people seem to agree with me that we are gaining a lot more than we are loosing. Besides, do you REALLY use 109 buffs frequently?

I don't use all 109 buffs myself, although I stockalmost all in my shop and most of them (even lower tier foods) do actually sell. I would probably have a small revolt on my hands if I stopped selling charde or caf, even though most chefs do not even bother with these foods. It is true that the more usefull schemata tend to be loaded higher in the skill tree, but if some recipes are going to be removed, it will probably occur at all levels so that the lower skill boxes do not appear "empty."

What is more important, I do understand that experimentation is being redone. However, it is unlikely that each stat buff food will use unique code, rather than drawing on shared code and a database entry. All foods already have filling, quantity, buff size, and duration. Unless the developers plan to format the database entries in such a way that all existing food is rendered useless, the new system should also be able to handle new foods made with old schemata, and perhaps even the old experimentation screen. (For instance,armor is technically clothing, but it's experimentation screen is different.) What, if anything, can be gained by eliminating foods from the tree for lack of time, when the code and database entries for those foods already exist?

No, but it will save you down time so you could be ddoing something else besides just lying there wating to stand up again.

Similarly, are dancers really going to buy food to buff healing effectiveness? Dancers already heal wounds and battle fatigue quickly; my guess is that most of them won't be very interested in this unless the effect is dramatic.

I disagree with you there. Maybe not the masters, but the other dancers I believe will be happy to have it/

I see that starshine surprise might be marginally useful, but the question is whether it will be worth filling your stomach — not to mention, spending your credits — on this drink rather than something else?

The dancer issue is actually something more general.Many dancersalready healbattle fatigue and woundsquickly, but those interested in skill mods can get bioengineered clothing for wound healing. Clothing and armor buffs stack up to the +25 limit, but if food buffs will not stack, they would need to have really dramatic numbers to make them competitive. Any food that boosts a skill that bioengineered tissues can also boost would need to have more dramatic effects, by resource cost and skill level, to make it at all marketable. Skills like melee and ranged defense, that can only be boosted by skill tapes, are a different story.

3. Lack of progression in the skill tree: Even without the buff sizes and durations listed, I don't see how the newdomestic arts tree (from I to IV) shows any better progression than the old tree. For instance, Ruby Bliel (DA3) is listed as reducing heal recovery time, an effect that would be more useful to more people than increasing Wookie roar (Jaar, DA 4).

Really? You think there are more doctors in the game then there are wookiees? Besides, according to the description it increases the effect of wookiee roar by a lot.

Given the Friday Feature a while ago that listed a substantial percentage of the characters will "novice doctor," there very well may be more doctors than wookies. However, I wasn't even thinking about doctors. Heal recovery time applies to all characters who have medic (and I bet there are more of people using medic in combat than there are wookies), but also to anyone who uses Pet Stims to heal their pets.

I'm not just expecting the worst, but previous experience has taught me not to expect the best. I don't expect a bug-free, balanced release of the new tree.

Many people have mentioned skill tree progression, resource costs, useless buffs, and repeated buffs as stumbling blocks for the current chef tree. I certainly hope the developers are keeping those issues in mind (perhaps stearing clear of duplicated skill mods) rather than just changing the orientation of chef, because that alone will not solve the problem. Taking inadequate chef stat buffs out of competition with doctor and entertainer buffs isn't going help matters if the answer is to put inadequate chef skill mods in competition with tailor and armorsmith mods. It wouldn't be very fun if chefs in six months were complaining that they only had high-selling foods again — even if they are different foods.

I see that starshine surprise might be marginally useful, but the question is whether it will be worth filling your stomach — not to mention, spending your credits — on this drink rather than something else?

The cool thing about this one is that it stays with you until it is used. So if you drink it, and then two hours later you get incapped, it is still with you and takes effect...and this could be long after your stomach has emptied out.

I certainly hope the developers are keeping those issues in mind (perhaps stearing clear of duplicated skill mods) rather than just changing the orientation of chef, because that alone will not solve the problem.

I am pretty sure there will not be duplicate skill mods, although some of the effects will duplicate. I am pretty sure there will be a stronger version of the Aitha Mind Heal, for example, but jawa beer will have the only mask scent buff.

Clothing and armor buffs stack up to the +25 limit, but if food buffs will not stack, they would need to have really dramatic numbers to make them competitive.

I asked Greenmarine about how this will work with cloth buffs, and I am still waiting to hear back.

Also, I think that no matter what they do there will be some really high selling buffs and some that don't sell that well or at all. I think that is just the nature of the game. When you try to put in variety, there is no way to predict who is going to use what...and you know gamers are always looking for the best combination and then stick with it. Hopefully with these updates we will have a wider variety of useful buffs, as well as niche clients...newbie dancers going for that dancing buffs or wookiees looking for their Jaar.

I would definitely buy a drink like the Starshine Surprise. There have been many times, I wish I could make my incap timer go a bit faster, because the NPC dude was coming to DB me, but he was 65 meters away... if only it went a little faster, my timer would be zerowith me getting up and running awayinstead of 15 seconds left and a DB.

As for the dancing buffs for healmods, I think those would be very useful for people that just have dancing as a side profession and can't get rid of BF or mind wounds easily. I know plenty of people that just have minimal entertainment skills so they can heal wounds and such in camps for a quick repair.

I think the revamp is awesome and is definitely needed. Can't wait to see more.

I sent some of your concerns to the developers:

• Any food you have now will remain the same once the new food comes in. The changes will effect only food that is created after the patch


• They are lowering the complexity of most of the food schematics. Lower complexity means that our factories will work faster.


• Once the changes go on the test center, they are going to look at balancing resource rarity vs. buff quality.


• Mods of the same skill type won't stack. So drinking two jawa beers will not help with anything, but drinking jawa beer and aitha will be ok.


• Our skill buffs will work with skill tapes, although some balancing might need to be done on the test center.

Message Edited by SirVimes on 12-22-2003 11:51 AM

ah good as an ex master musician i can tell you that no dancer or musician is going to bother with those buffs.

a. they are generaly poor

b. they really dont care how fast they heal you generally.

On a side note i cant wait to see what the Novice Chef and above buffs and skill mods will be. The Artisan stuff looks very promising, but i dont make artisan foods at all (other than components obviously) so i could really care less about them.

<blink> <blink>

/em is speechless

/em smiles at life

I have a question here, as a Master Musician and a Master Bio-Engineer. What the hell is this adding to? Is it Dance Wound Healing, Music Wound Healing, Dance Fatigue Healing, Music Fatigue Healing, both Wound Healing types, both Fatigue Healing types, or all four Entertainment Healing skills?

I'm highly insulted if this is only for Dancers. Please, devs,quit referring to everything in Entertainment as Dancing, dammit! It's rude to the Image Designers and Musicians. I mean, we know that everyone only wants to watch polygonal boobs jiggle from doing Exotic 4, but it's really insulting to have the developers reinforce this. Speaking of, other than stuff to buff mind/focus/willpower, will Image Designers ever get anything?

As a Bio-Engineer who makes myoflex tissues for tailors to put into clothing, I know that anyone who really wants to have +25 to Music/Dance Wound Healing has it. It's not that hard to come by, and with only one piece of clothing. Will food skill mods stack with bio-enhanced clothing skill mods to exceed the +25 cap that is already in place? If not, there is zero call for this buff to be in a consumable food. Clothing doesn't wear off. If it does stack...there's still little call for this unless it adds to Dance/Music Fatigue Healing (both of them...I find out this is only for dancers and there's nothing for musicians, and I'm gonna pop a blood vessel). Wound Healing is far easier to do quickly than Fatigue Healing, and patrons typically have more Fatigue than Mind Wounds anyway.

Okay, I saw a couple drinks for Focus. Where's one for Willpower? Musician buffs are nice (I should know!) but they're not portable and can only be conferred somewhere where Mind Wound Healing can take place. Not to mention, a Musician can't buff their own Focus/Willpower. (That part really sucks for the Bio-Engineering part of me. :smileysad So I'd love to have stuff that added to Willpower.

Just a side note: I couldn't care less about buffs to the base Health/Action/Mind pools. I want buffs to the cost and regen stats. But that's a personal preference of mine. Then again, I don't think I'm alone in this preference. So I want crates and crates of Teltier Noodles! How 'bout a drink that does the same thing to the cost stats? (Strength, Quickness & Focus all at once). I think if I could get both those, I'll have died and gone to buff heaven.

I tried once to go for Chef. I gave it up when I realized all I ever sold was pet food and Sunburns. I hope the same thing doesn't happen after the revamp, with only a few of the craftable items actually being in demand.

As a Bio-Engineer with Tissues that have high and low level versions, I can say with absolute certainty that no one wants lower-level versions unless for some reason the higher level one is not possible to make (gated due to resource scarcity). So it serves no purpose to give lower power versions to Domestic Arts and then repeat the same buffs in the Chef lines (or even later in the Dom Arts line). People don't go to lower level professionals to get the lower level items, they just take a little longer to find a Master and get the Master to make it. Make each food do something unique. Goddess knows there areenough skills, effects and stats to make everything do something unique. About the only room for repetition is between drinks and foods. If you must repeat effects, do it there.

All the implementation for the new Bio-Engineer side of Chef is done.

It is? Boy, I'm so glad to hear that. Too bad no one told us over on the Bio-Engineer board that this was even in the works. We'd love to actually be able to make those food additives for y'all (well, some of us would). I sure hope it works out that the additives take fewer resources to make than the foods themselves. Not all of us who are Master Bio-Engineers want to make clones. Some of us wanted to be Tissues Engineers. I look forward to being able to use that currentlyuseless 1/3 of my Tissue schematics. Here's hoping we bio-engineers can get enough fish and milk to make the stuff you need to make components to improve an end-product (does this process seem to have an awful lot of steps to anyone else?). Can anyone get an answer from GreenMarine as to whether or not the Bio-Engineering food tissues will have reduced resource requirements? 'Cause Keldarin doesn't really talk to the bio-engineers much. As it stands now, making the Additives would cost more than making the food itself.

I'm confused about the way the Chef/Bio-Engineer amalgam is supposed to work...but then, I'm apparently too stupid to figure out how most of the Bio-Engineering stuff works. So, I make a Broad Spectrum Nutrient, you put it into a Medium Filling Additive and it will reduce the amount that eating/drinking the end food/drink fills you up, even before you experiment on Filling on the food itself? How would putting Devaronian Alipedine work in an Additive? That's only supposed to add to Action at the expense of Mind. What would that do if you put it into an Additive for Filling? Would the end result add to Action, debuff Mind, and also reduce theamount that theend product food fills up the consumer? Or will that combo not be possible?

Do the 'secret' items go into the Broad Spectrum Nutrient (for example), or the Chef-made Additives?

Incidentally, will drinks be able to have Additives put in them? When you say 'every food item,' it's not clear if you're intentionally excluding drinks (which would suck), or 'every food item' means 'all Chef-made items.'

Yes, I know I'm a verbosepain in the arse. I like to know the constraints within which I'll be working before they exist, so I can plan.

Will food skill mods stack with bio-enhanced clothing skill mods to exceed the +25 cap that is already in place?

Yes.

So it serves no purpose to give lower power versions to Domestic Arts and then repeat the same buffs in the Chef lines (or even later in the Dom Arts line). People don't go to lower level professionals to get the lower level items, they just take a little longer to find a Master and get the Master to make it.

Except the higher level ones take up more stomach room....so if you stick with lower levels you can get more variety of buffs because you can fit more of them in your tummy. Still, not everything will be repeating. I am pretty sure the skill mods won't be.

Can anyone get an answer from GreenMarine as to whether or not the Bio-Engineering food tissues will have reduced resource requirements?

I will ask him.

I find out this is only for dancers and there's nothing for musicians, and I'm gonna pop a blood vessel)

There will probably be somehting in the drink tree for this.

Don't forget Echinacea, these are only the Artisan level foods.

As for the postings of the bank-and-forth, SirVimes: thank you. I could not be happier to hear that the Devs are being so quick in answering. (Well, quick to my mind... I could just be going crazy)

Stupid forums....

Anyway, I think that the chef buffs to Fatigue healing would be most useful to entertainer professions, since there's no craftable way to add to that skill. Even at high levels, the mind wounds get taken care of much faster than fatigue, and people tend to let BF get higher than wounds anyway.

But here's what I think would be an excellent seller to Master Musicians and Dancers: "+Mind Enhancement" skill mods. This skill is what determines the percentage boost to Mind or Focus/Willpower when you get a buff from one of these professions. I'm imagining a Master or near-Master food/drink that adds +20 to one or both of the Enhancement skills or so for 8 to 10 minutes (the standard time needed for a Musician/Dancer buff). That's another 20% added on top of the performer's buff. "Combat Entertainers" who go out hunting with PA members could pop one of these, perform for the group in a camp and everyone benefits. Or combat professions could buy them and offer a stack to a performer they're purchasing a buff from.

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Echinacea wrote:
How 'bout a drink that does the same thing to the cost stats? (Strength, Quickness & Focus all at once). I think if I could get both those, I'll have died and gone to buff heaven.

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I'm not sure if this was a deliberate pun, or just a coincidence. You haven't seen "Breath of Heaven"? +400 or so to Strength, Quickness, Focus for8 or9 minutes. And I really hope they keep our current best sellers (BoH, Angerian Fishak, Bivoli, Sunburn) somewhat unchanged. With the exception of Sunburn, these could be the top-tier stat buffs for the new-and-improved chef. I think Sunburn should either be moved to Mix IV or toned down, although with Starshines reducing incap time, maybe Sunburn won't even be a stat buff anymore.