Chef Archive

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Unbreakable_ wrote:

Have participated in, and witnessed 3-4 really good BHs with high DPS weapons pound on a Defender for over 15 minutes with no end result. Something must be done. 1.5x stronger than other professions? Yeah right. Most Defenders can simply channel, adv. forced heal & infusion all day and nothing happens to them. I'm sorry but thats not balanced. Perhaps Infusion should cost more Force to activate. Like quadruple the current amount.

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yea like ...14x4 = 56 force ??!!? id take it if ppl would stop whining

docs have a heal over time as well, pick it up

I doubt they will nurf defender. I have been a defender since the patch 9 change. Defender is finaly what it was ment to be. The prob is they gave jedi and all other chars respec. Never should have done that. Now they have let the cat out of the bag, 5 mill BH and jedi respecing to what ever they want. If they had not done a respec would be many less defenders, healers and for sure a lot less BH.

I also am getting tired of other jedi in here crying like mad over what other jedi have and want it put in their templates. Like the ones that want defender and healer removed and spread out amoung powers and enhancer. NEVER HAPPEN! For all you jedi wanting defender and healer nurfed be carefull. They may just nurf jedi period and be done with it. I have seen it before in this game.

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xur-soma wrote:

dude they cant do it for ever man eventauly they will run out of force i have I have pvp with jedi for a good 10 min so i bet that may be possible but jedi have whats called a force pool ( i know you know this ) and just like health | action | mind it runs out

Start Of fight :

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End of fightof fight :

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"out of force o cr@p i am dead"

cant heal | cant run | cant attack

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Arcadias wrote:

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xur-soma wrote:

dude they cant do it for ever man eventauly they will run out of force i have I have pvp with jedi for a good 10 min so i bet that may be possible but jedi have whats called a force pool ( i know you know this ) and just like health | action | mind it runs out

Start Of fight :

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End of fightof fight :

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"out of force o cr@p i am dead"

cant heal | cant run | cant attack

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Hmmm, how long would the fight last with an inventory full of Holos (and enhance xxx2)?

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Last I checked you can only use one holo/24 hours.

I am glad that some of you are constructiveand not whining What if a Mdef-template can hold his ground against many opponents, this was exactly the role a master defender was intended to have. I bet that a TKM/Doc + def skillsis very hard to get too, its just a personal choice what kind of role you want to have.

All right, just because I was curious, I did some testing tonight to see how Channel held up for regenning force to support continued use of Avoid Incap. My results were rather conclusive on this point... You can use channel to sustain your Force Pool enough to continue using Avoid Incap for about 5-7 minutes before you mind is too low to be able to continue using it with the proper regularity. By the time your mind hits that point (Less than 25%), you have a net gain of around 700 Force Pool. (Assuming you have a full +74 Force Regen from a Double Mastery template and a set of robes.)* After this point, you will start losing between 200 and 300 Force Pool every period you need Avoid Incap. This was without using anything but Avoid Incap. It does not include, in any way, any FP spent into heals or anything else. Further, by the time this occurs, your maximum health stat is very low. I believe mine was around 1200 or so from the 3k I have as a CL80 Human Jedi. If you were to attempt to stop using Avoid Incap at this point, it wouldn't take very many hits to incap you, so you couldn't do that, and you don't have any way to take the heat off, so to speak, to let your max health regen, so you're simply going to be using Avoid Incap until you finally run below 750 force and fall down dead from the next 2-3 incoming hits. There is a point at which, after about the 4th or 5th Channel, you have a positive net gain of Force Pool, though it's only around 300 or so, max. This might, at current, be a good time to stop channeling and start relying upon your heals to keep you alive, especially infusion, which seems to cost relatively little to use. If you could wait out the wait to regen your Health, Action, and Mind without dipping below your net gain, then it could be used to indefinately tank as many non-Jedi as you want, though I'm not certain that you can manage to do so, as Mind Regen rates are rather slow, and I, personally, only regen about 30-31 of my max health after a Channel every 5 seconds. I just don't see it as being possible with the data I have at my disposal. You could use this to greatly extend a fight, but you would be far too busy healing and trying, in general, to keep yourself alive, that you would likely be unable to do much else.
Now, some side notes: First, not all Jedi have healing, and I don't want to hear the argument that all Jedi can have healing, because I can just as easily argue that any non-Jedi can take up Doctor or Combat Medic if they so wish, and the latter is, in fact, quitea powerful tool with its many states. While I may agree that Jedi Healing is more powerful and very cost effective at the moment, it will likely not stay so forever, and it should be more powerful than any non-Jedi healing, anyway, though perhaps a little less so than it is at the moment. I for one, however, will never cry, "NERF!" against either of the two actual, working Force Disciplines, and as the quotation of SonGouki's post clearly shows, Master Defenders aren't terribly overstacked with consideration to other templates, so making Defender less capable would be a horrendous slight, as it would only serve to make it equal to other possible non-Jedi template defenses, or worse, less adequate.
Second: I am dismayed to hear Seha's comment about nerfing Defender and Healer to the level of Powers, because, as a jest, or not, I don't want the Devs to get any more bright ideas about how to treat Jedi at this point. I wish people would stop crying, "NERF!" all the time, and instead ask for their own trees to simply be fixed. The Jedi community has a bad habit of getting itself nerfed into the ground quite effectively, without any other classes having to say much at all.
I guess that just about says everything I was thinking while reading the posts in this thread, so I'll end here. Please, please don't ask for nerfs... we might just get them.

*This is assuming that the +10 regen on my robes isn't broken with their condition being 0.

Message Edited by ArsMoritoria on 05-09-2005 05:32 AM

Currently defender IS overpowered, though its not the skill itself its the defence boosting specials. E.g. +500 defence from aura, stacked ontop of other defences, force run, healingand still full damage while its active. Theres someone in our guild like that and itspretty much unstoppable, even with a full group we could hardly do any damage, and we could just be incapped 1 by 1.

Message Edited by NasherUK on 05-09-2005 03:37 AM

use force drain and root on defenders they can be brought down... I know im one of them lol (and Jedi you need to stop nerfing your own profession) x.x

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Unbreakable_ wrote:

Have participated in, and witnessed 3-4 really good BHs with high DPS weapons pound on a Defender for over 15 minutes with no end result. Something must be done. 1.5x stronger than other professions? Yeah right. Most Defenders can simply channel, adv. forced heal & infusion all day and nothing happens to them. I'm sorry but thats not balanced. Perhaps Infusion should cost more Force to activate. Like quadruple the current amount.

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I could live with that...

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Nekra wrote:

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Grendiel wrote:

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SonGouki wrote:

Why would they "nerf" Defender? Almost the same exact defenses can be achieved as a normal profession triple elite stacker...

Master Defender defenses (with Melee/Ranged FS lines):

• 70 Innate Jedi Armor
• 255 Melee Defense
• 235 Ranged Defense
• NO Weapon Defense
• 500 Defense from Improved Force Aura

Triple Elite Stacker (TKA + Fencer + Swordsman):

• 60 Innate TK Armor
• 235 Melee Defense
• 170 Ranged Defense
• 75 Unarmed Defense
• 500 Defense from Improved Center of Being

As you can see they're almost exactly the same, and there are many other possibilities similar to this with elite profession templates as well. If they "nerf" Force Defender then they'd have to go back and re-work a lot of the changes that were made to ALL professions in the Combat Upgrade to balance it out.

The only real difference is Avoid Incap, but that is balanced with it's high Force cost. Force Valor as well I guess, but it only compliments Saber Block. You must also have at least xxx4 in the Lightsaber discipline for that to be even somewhat useful, and even then it's only good against ranged professions.

The only thing I can see really changing is perhaps tweaking the damage reduction received from Defenses versus Accuracy, but then that would be a change that universally affects the whole combat game. Technically it would balance out then...

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QFE

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well that stacker will not be healing all his damage away like every jedi can

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But he wouldn't run out of force either...

i was just looking for that post from SonGouki thank you