Chef Archive
Thread: Chef Revamp Report #2
Hoikonnen
Mon Jan 26, 2004 5:00 am
#14
I really hope some Dev reads this post and takes it serious.
Some of the changes will really hurt our profession more than it helps us. For example removing experimentation on subcomponents. This, in my eyes was one of the most fun features we had and where you actually could really do something special about the endproduct and that let the individual chef stand out from the crowd. I don't see the point in restricting us in one type of alcohol. Seems pretty boring to me.
Then, like many stated before the incredible power decrease of our stat buffs. I don't really believe this has something to do with the combat system revamp. I mean - did anyone hear that they are going to change doc buffs (which are way more powerful than our curent buffs will ever be), musician, dancer or smuggler buffs? I mean it was stated that mind won't be as important as it is right now. However I highly doubt that focus will be less important as it is right now. I have a rifleman on another account and I know these guys are wicked mindeaters. No focus buffs and your mind is drained to nothing in few seconds. So the decrease in power of Breath of Heaven and the missing Ryshcate will not only hurt Chef business in general but also other classes. Especially considering that the chef revamp will happen probably months before the combat system revamp. I don't really see a way how the developers can justify this - it doesn't make sense at all. If the lower buffpower is really viable then I would really like to see both revamps simultaniously on the TC otherwise this will only cause lots of trouble and whining.
One example. Right now people who need high secondary stats can use 1 Breath of heaven + 2 Ryshcate simultaniously and get depending on the quality of these buffs 900 - 1500 additional points in str/qui/foc. You can use those buffs almost nonstop (at least you can alternate between using 1boh+ 1 rysh and using 2 rysh). When I look at the possible buff values after the revamp I only see Breath of heaven with 200-300 str/qui/foc - well for mind ther would probably also be Bespin Port but as we all know BoH is pretty filling and therefore I don't think BoH and Bespin do stack really well. I can't see a way how to explain to my customers how my post-revamp Breath of heaven will in any way better to use than Muon Gold.
And about the new skillbuffs? I see lots of stuff like +12 to dodge, +12 to knockdown defense and whatever. Every player that has some experience with combat classes knows that this means nothing. I played a meelee combo template before and I couldn't even see much difference between 65 and 95 knockdown defense while lvling up.
I used to read alot on these boards when I was chef some months ago - and I am again chef now because I was looking forward to the revamp. But right now it seems to me like the revamp doesn't really bring what most people asked for. The main issues with our food palette were when I remember right:
-no milk
-too many buffs that basically did the same
-buff duration should be increased
-fix broken schematics
-fix broken experimentation (yes i know. part of it was fixed already)
-relocate some schematics to a higher lvl (example move Tattooine Sunburn up to mix 4 or so)
-fix filling bars
What we get now seems like:
-low amounts of milk (much effort to acquire domesticated milk)
-increased buff duration in some cases. But others like BoH and that str/con buff (can't remember the name)are really low duration
-removed or nerfed our best sellers (Fishak, Ryshcate, Tat Sunburn, BoH, Vercupti, Thaktillo)
-removed experimentation
-filling bars still not fixed
-highly nerfed food stacking by altering the stomach filling system. I woul rather go back to the old system that let you eat another one at about the same time when it dropped. This wasn't really pleasing but still better than eating a 10 - minute buff with a 75% fukkubg and then having to wait for 35 minutes to be able to eat it again.
Ja-van
Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:09 am
#15
SV I dont see the Devs changing the stomach time to 30 mins from 1 hour. That change is going to be very complicated due to the fact that many of the foods already last for 30 mins, and some could be experimented to reachover 30mins. That being the case all food durations would have to be reduced to prevent a situation where 2 seperate buff times overlap. To change the 1 hour rule to a 30 min rule seems that it would require reprogramming a lot if not all of the database.
Personally I think all food should be either immediatley consumable when the buff wears offor the way it is currently which seems to be just a few mins. To do that it might be just as difficult to change, but it seems that it should be easier to change it that away.
Denoby Master Chef
PSKstang
Mon Jan 26, 2004 7:13 am
#16
The only thing I seem to really have a problem with is the digestion time. There should be no time in between food taking, except maybe the "x for x hits." If we are to take those consistently, it should be a pain to make with plenty of resources, that should drive the price up so that it will only be used for emergencies or for extreme situations.Chef food is a luxury and it is expensive. Thats what will keep people from constantly being buffed. Since the new buffs are a bit lower, then the digestion has to go. Taking the veneraian (sp?) brandy at 33 filling with about 150 to all mind stats is the new fishak. But you need to take 3 of them. Customers will not be taking these down that quickly. However you can also argue that this brandy also has a duration of 40 min. or so and that takes care of the digestion problem. Well what about the 15 min food (or the ridiculous 3 min food). Who would buy thatknowing the wait for the next food. Yes I know that its 45 min. - 1 hour if you have a full food/drink bar, but isn't that what makes chef so good? The mixing and matching of food for different situations.
Other than that, I think the food buffs for the most part look good. Yes they can use a little boost in their values, but I dont think it will be that necessary. The popular food, if the new HAM system is one where specials deplete the max of a stat, would be the secondary stats.
Ackos
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:27 am
#17
Need new factories, can call them farms. Grain and water ($$ and energy)as inputs; eggs, milk, meat, and fish as outputs.
PSKstang
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:34 am
#18
I love the idea Ackos but rangers would hate it. Maybe the farms make an average quality meat, while the stuff that spawns on creatures can be almost always above average. Also, if rangers got the ability to harvest everything off an animal then that would be a great idea as well since they will get bone and hide, as well as meat for their efforts. The idea is plausible, but some tweaking of other professions must be done first.
DashZero
Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:57 am
#19
The amount of dependency we are going to have on rangers for rangers being so few is a bad thing. It looks like we are gonna need BE components in most everything to make worthwhile food...We ALL know how hard it is to get enough meat to make a full factory run of something..Can you imagine having to have that to make every run on top of your normal needs. Then we toss in milk now to in amounts bigger than eggs but still to small to use substantially. I think I may need to like just perma hire about 5 rangers. One really gets the impression that they have no foggy clue how much product we go through.
Ezran
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:04 am
#20
Dsabre wrote:
I think that about covers it...however for experimenting on subcomponents...
Okay, here's my thoughts on experimenting on components (and why I don't like it)
Every other profession that uses components have them there for a reason (weapons gives damage/speed, Armor gives resists/encumbrance etc.) Our components do nothing special, other than increase the complexity of making the food (which is a nescessary evil).
If you could think of a good way to include stats in components, without completely revamping the profession again. Then I'd agree to experimenting components. If not, I think it removes the ambiguity from "Does experimenting components mean better food" AND removes the nescessity of having Master Artisan for every chef (Which they did very well, and I love BTW)
DashZero
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:17 am
#21
Ezran wrote:
Our components do nothing special, other than increase the complexity of making the food (which is a nescessary evil).
If you could think of a good way to include stats in components, without completely revamping the profession again. Then I'd agree to experimenting components. If not, I think it removes the ambiguity from "Does experimenting components mean better food" AND removes the nescessity of having Master Artisan for every chef (Which they did very well, and I love BTW)
Errmm on the contrary I believe many people disagree with that statement. Experimentation on chef components (excluding veghash) has effected food drastically. It is in fact this very thing that separates the top notch chefs from the rest (in addition to resources and skill mods). There is no ambiguity of does experimenting make better food, to a person who has spent a day learning the answer to their question. Experimentation on components particularly the alcohols currently makes a super duper stupendous difference in the final product. The people that I find that ask this question are new chefs or chefs that dont worry about trying to be creative to make the best food but instead play follow the leader and never try to learn on their own. Or chefs that experimented on artisan components instead of chef components.
Naturner
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:18 am
#22
I agree with a whole lot of what has been said here. SirVimes is pretty much on my mark. That leaves me to address a much smaller issue...sprites
My 3 favorite food sprites are Aludium, Ice Cream, and Vegeparsine. Vege is still there, but the others are not. Does anything use the old Aludium or Ice Cream art? If not I may have to keep crates of it just for nostalgia's sake.
SirVimes
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:23 am
#23
My thing, with the experimentation with components...it might have beenone of the things that was hurting experimentation in general. I mean, they removed it from so much stuff. If they can put it back in without screwing up experimentation, I am completely for it. If it cannot be, I would rather be getting results over 50% then experimental subcomponents.
DashZero
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:29 am
#24
Do we have a final word yet on if the resources of the components have any effect. Does it matter if I use garbage or caviar? The loss of experimentation for me means loss of personalization of my product.
If components are all created equally, there is very little manuevering room to be a good chef or a mediocre chef. They will be pretty close to the same I fear. But again, Ive not played with the stuff on test yet so maybe Im wrong but it seems that way. Tho I do understand what you are saying about experimentation SV. Perhaps if they made the final outcome of the component be treated by the system in a way similar to theflavorings.
Ezran
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:39 am
#25
Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:
Do we have a final word yet on if the resources of the components have any effect. Does it matter if I use garbage or caviar? The loss of experimentation for me means loss of personalization of my product.If components are all created equally, there is very little manuevering room to be a good chef or a mediocre chef. They will be pretty close to the same I fear. But again, Ive not played with the stuff on test yet so maybe Im wrong but it seems that way. Tho I do understand what you are saying about experimentation SV. Perhaps if they made the final outcome of the component be treated by the system in a way similar to the flavorings.
I tend to disagree with you a little. Here's my point:
There are 4 experimentation bars, you can't get more than 50% on all of them, even at master. The difference between a good chef and a bad chef will be how they use the points they have. Certain food will require lower filling, while others will require longer duration or stronger buffs. A good chef will know which bars to max for which recipes, and which to just leave alone.
Also, the new experimentation implemented a while ago makes quality of ingredients very important. Higher quality ingredients not only mean higher max possible value, but higher experimented value with less points. Every recipe has different stats associated with each experimentation bar. Therefore, the choice of ingredients will be crucial, when looking at the previous point. A good chef will pick ingredients that not only fit into the slot and have a few 900+ stats, but will also increase the experimentation bar they want, while ignoring others.
It'll definitely be a challenge.
SirVimes
Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:41 am
#26
I submitted it with the following additions:
I also talked about removing the stomach fill timer completely.