Chef Archive
Thread: Sigh...
Alciril
Wed Aug 11, 2004 6:13 pm
#14
They haven't really released much info on EQ2 clothing yet, so I can't say for sure. But I do know that there aren't any plans for a dedicated tailoring profession. 
As far as I've read, clothes will be craftable by artisans that specialize in the builder class.
As far as I've read, clothes will be craftable by artisans that specialize in the builder class.I did watch the EQ2 movie on the main site and I have to say that I love the way the clothing moves and flows with the wearer. It's definitely something to see if you have time to take a look. 
Priall
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:45 am
#15
I'm with ya too..
Don't they realize that most of our business comes from people buying things in different colors? And that people need us to choose colors because more than half the game has no fashion sense besides "black is cool"?
Then again, at least we wouldn't hear "make it black and cool" anymore 
Gyopi
Fri Aug 13, 2004 5:41 am
#16
There seem to be more and more proposals for dye kits or NPCs who color clothes. People *like* the idea so much and I am the only one arguing against it. I just hope NJ62 will keep fighting against it. I just don't see how anyone could find tailoring fun if either of these ideas happened unless their idea of fun is just to make a little easy money.
AllyaEcati
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:00 am
#17
Maybe giving the tailors the ability to dye a clothing item that's already made would be a solution. I know if I have a skill tape, I stress over what outfit to make myself.I especially stress over the color should the item be, soit can be wornwith as many outfits as possible. If tailors did the dying, people could still change their favorite clothes, and tailors could control the cost of the service.
Mafukie
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:30 am
#18
This is a great idea, if only tailors could make it, we can make some extra money with dye kits.
Gyopi
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:42 am
#19
AllyaEcati wrote:
Maybe giving the tailors the ability to dye a clothing item that's already made would be a solution. I know if I have a skill tape, I stress over what outfit to make myself.I especially stress over the color should the item be, soit can be wornwith as many outfits as possible. If tailors did the dying, people could still change their favorite clothes, and tailors could control the cost of the service.
Now that hologrinding is pretty much over, I would not mind being able to re-dye clothes as much as I did before. I would hate to see something that says "Momoko" on it that is in puke green and pink, though.
ArthurDentOnBria
Fri Aug 13, 2004 9:33 am
#20
Mafukie wrote:
This is a great idea, if only tailors could make it, we can make some extra money with dye kits.
Very very controversial issue. The results of the poll we had were like 90% of tailors very very strongly opposed to non-tailors coloring clothing, and it was close to a 50/50 split between tailors wanting tailors to be able to colorize clothing after it had been created. Lots of very strong feelings on both sides of the issue. On that basis I would not recommend that we persue this.
Mystyrys
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:03 am
#21
If clothing dye kits ever got introduced, that would be the last straw. The final nail in the tailor coffin for me. That would make it a no brainer to drop tailor AND merchant andgo straight gunbunny.
An ID type interface for doing face-to-face custom orders, now that I might get behind. That would leave the tailor still in control of the entire process and be skill-level-based, yet do away with the remaking issue when trying to hit on the exact colors the customer wants. (Since we have such strict limits on our ability to otherwise display our wide variety of styles and colors, and the new vendor limits will make it ever so much harder)
But give anyone and everyone the ability to recolor clothes? No. What's the point in even being a tailor if everyone can recolor everything we craft? Looted clothing, with or without mods, comes in ugly colors to encourage people to desire crafted clothing. It's one of the factors implemented to generate business for an entire profession.
If clothing decay was actually working as intended, there wouldn't be so many people out there hugging their skill-modded pea green and purple pants and looking like a fashion no-no all in the name of"I'm better than you-ness."
And the rumblings about the decay fix supposedly being in patch 10 has begun, it has. Tailor abuse similar to what happened to IDs with stat migrations is in our future. I remember when they announced they were working on the decay fix... it was ugly around here. Ugly. The first person who loses a 20 million credit set of SEAs on a decayed shirt... *shudder*There will be much lamentations and chaos.
Gyopi
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:06 am
#22
Mystyrys wrote:And the rumblings about the decay fix supposedly being in patch 10 has begun, it has. Tailor abuse similar to what happened to IDs with stat migrations is in our future. I remember when they announced they were working on the decay fix... it was ugly around here. Ugly. The first person who loses a 20 million credit set of SEAs on a decayed shirt... *shudder* There will be much lamentations and chaos.
I have to agree with this! Soon it will be our turn to be the most hated profession in the game for awhile. It will eventually pass, though.
Wire3k
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:09 am
#23
I can well appreciate the resistance to this - and it's far from a GOOD solution, but it's at the heart of the reason tailors in particular are going to have problems with item limits.
I'm also a bio - so for me, it's even more of a problem.
My recommendation wouldn't be to remove colors at all from tailors - but to add a NPC that could do it for a FEE. This however would hinge on the fact that decay actually did it's job and clothing would have to be replaced - I'd even strongly recommend coloring had a decay hit.
What's the biggest problem with what should be our #1 customer - the entertainer? They don't die so their costumes never wear out.
A small golden lining is this would make them need clothing every so often.
I don't think this would lose me any sales and in the longrun I think I'd sell more (course just decay would help that too).
Should the devs fix their end to support their design - ayup, they sure should - but it don't look like it's gonna happen.
NJ62
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:11 am
#24
My concern about recolorization by tailors, even face-to-face, even based on level, is that it would turn colors into a service and not a product. And we've seen that when something only costs time, people are unwilling to pay for it.
It may cost me the same amount of time to fuss with a customer over a color as it does to make 20 items and slap them up on my vendor. Yet, those items will sell, and the customer will be reluctant to pay me for a color change.
In our profession, time is money, and our resources are negligible, yet the playerbase only understands the almighty c/p/u cost and does not value time at all. While we have to make a new item to get a new color, we are "speaking their language" by making a new physical item which "costs" us something - even though in our minds the resources matter not at all and the time spent on making a new item is functionally equivalent to the time it would take to recolor.
We make little enough money as it is. Seeing how players treat "services" in this game, I'd rather keep the illusion that we charge for "cost for materials used" even though in reality we are charging for time.
It may cost me the same amount of time to fuss with a customer over a color as it does to make 20 items and slap them up on my vendor. Yet, those items will sell, and the customer will be reluctant to pay me for a color change.
In our profession, time is money, and our resources are negligible, yet the playerbase only understands the almighty c/p/u cost and does not value time at all. While we have to make a new item to get a new color, we are "speaking their language" by making a new physical item which "costs" us something - even though in our minds the resources matter not at all and the time spent on making a new item is functionally equivalent to the time it would take to recolor.
We make little enough money as it is. Seeing how players treat "services" in this game, I'd rather keep the illusion that we charge for "cost for materials used" even though in reality we are charging for time.
NJ62
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:23 am
#25
Wire3k wrote:I can well appreciate the resistance to this - and it's far from a GOOD solution, but it's at the heart of the reason tailors in particular are going to have problems with item limits.I'm also a bio - so for me, it's even more of a problem.My recommendation wouldn't be to remove colors at all from tailors - but to add a NPC that could do it for a FEE. This however would hinge on the fact that decay actually did it's job and clothing would have to be replaced - I'd even strongly recommend coloring had a decay hit.What's the biggest problem with what should be our #1 customer - the entertainer? They don't die so their costumes never wear out.A small golden lining is this would make them need clothing every so often.I don't think this would lose me any sales and in the longrun I think I'd sell more (course just decay would help that too).Should the devs fix their end to support their design - ayup, they sure should - but it don't look like it's gonna happen.
Some of our biggest sellers are the same items in multiple colors ("I want this outfit in blue, and the same one in green" or "I want this same outfit, but I think I like the orange better"). Any after-the-fact dye would probably have little impact on bioengineered goods, but would be disastrous for the "aesthetic tailor" who would lose out on customers buying multiple outfits in different colors. The decay is an interesting solution, but people will tire of their clothes and want new colors before the clothes actually decay (therefore, even with decay, we lose business).
Mystyrys
Fri Aug 13, 2004 11:29 am
#26
Excellent points NJ. It takes just as much time for us to fuss with our little bits and pieces and colors and displays and actually working with a customer on an outfit, as it does for say, an armorsmith to do all of their fussing with bits and pieces. But we don't get paid for our time like they do. It is a perception issue. Services vs cpu costs. I've spent up to 4 hours on just one customer. I base my prices to include the cost of my time. From resource gathering to final sale. Time is money. If the average player thinks a service/social profession isn't worth paying for, and how IDs are treated in general is deplorable, then we have to fight hard against letting that perception overtake what little territory we have.