Chef Archive
Thread: Dragging and Dropping MULTIPLE Items What do you think?
audioslaves wrote:The problem is... crafting professions are NOT supposed to be easy. You're NOT supposed to enjoy every second of it. If we were granted this then factories would suddenly take a lot less time as would stocking. Would that be nice? Sure. But what else would happen? People would make even more stuff than they already do.And then what would happen next month? Someone would say "gah the most annoying thing about chef is that components have to match, please just change this one thing". And then you'd have 40 crates of mando wine being spewed out with one schem easy as pie cause moving the unmatched alcohols around to do it would be no hassle at all.I don't like time spent moving stuff around too. Really, I don't. But asking for improvements that greatly reduce the "difficulty" (ok the annoyance) of being a chef just makes it that much easier for everyone to be one- or that much easier for one "top" chef to flood the market on their server so no one else has a chance. Neither of those scenarios is appealing in my opinion.Combat professions are very tedious in some things (say, running missions and shooting over and over at animals) and crafting professions should be as well, in my opinion. If it's too time consuming then sell less (in other words stock less!). Will save yourself lots of time.
This is pretty much the summation of what the devs think on the subject, and i have to agree, some what at least.
With my purely logical head on, the design decision is clear to see, this is here the same reason in combat, loot doesn't drop every time, or quests take time and effort to do. It may be annoying, and god knows it gets tiresome, but the reason its there is to separate the wheat from the chaff. Do you have what it takes to moves 1000's of components on a weekly basis, keep track and organise your components, it may sound like just a chore to do, and detrimental to the fun of crafting, but if it weren't for these roadblocks, everyone could do everything easily. Its a lame sounding reason, but there's no better one.
I'd like multiple movement, it'd be great for my wrist and my sanity, but if everything was easy, everyone would do it, and the market being flooded by new crafters would just kill the great player economies servers have. Some times the only thing stopping a big bad thing happening, are a bunch of little bad things.
Still doesn't stop it from being damn annoying though.
Nicka wrote:
I've always thought being a good chefs involved the following:
- keeping a well stocked vendor
- having good quality stock
- having resonable prices
- good customer service
So I fail to see why being able to move your components around faster should change anything. I thought the process of getting the best resource, aiming for all amazings and constantly keeping a close eye on your stock was what it was suppose to be. But I guess having to load hundreds of crate into factories would be considered difficult.
If being a chef only involves loading up crates into factory, I'm sure everyone and their mother can do it.
Consider the fact that if something doesn't sell then the chef wouldn't make it, so why stock more of it when it doesn't move? I'm hardly likely to increase my production output just because I can load more crates faster.
While saying that I really have no problem with any aspect of chef, its enjoyable and relaxing. I think it is fine the way it is, god knows its better off then many of the other profession out there. What I don't agree with is the assumpting that making crate of components easier to load to will make chef so easy that we will see a flood of foods on the market.
Your right it would not change anything.
While I admit I respect the opinions of everyone here.Howeverif the DEVS really believe that us placing 40 crates in our factories60 seconds faster is going to hurt the game....thats a piss poor excuse sorry.
Nicka wrote:
I've always thought being a good chefs involved the following:
- keeping a well stocked vendor
- having good quality stock
- having resonable prices
- good customer service
So I fail to see why being able to move your components around faster should change anything. I thought the process of getting the best resource, aiming for all amazings and constantly keeping a close eye on your stock was what it was suppose to be. But I guess having to load hundreds of crate into factories would be considered difficult.
If being a chef only involves loading up crates into factory, I'm sure everyone and their mother can do it.
Consider the fact that if something doesn't sell then the chef wouldn't make it, so why stock more of it when it doesn't move? I'm hardly likely to increase my production output just because I can load more crates faster.
While saying that I really have no problem with any aspect of chef, its enjoyable and relaxing. I think it is fine the way it is, god knows its better off then many of the other profession out there. What I don't agree with is the assumpting that making crate of components easier to load to will make chef so easy that we will see a flood of foods on the market.
Noone said that this was the only difficult thing with chef.
Does it seem to be one that people dislike the most? Well, apparently so from most people's response to it. I dislike it just as much as everybody else - but I can also see why it's there.
I'm reminded of a post (ok rant)by a chefthat said something along the lines of "Devs should try making and selling 250 crates of bespin per week and then tell me factories and small schematics aren't stupid" (and yes I'm paraphrasing). I'm sure I never responded but my immediate thought was "what makes you think that you're supposed to sell 250 crates of bespin per week??". Annoying, tedious, time-consuming tasks do control how much product you can put out in a certain amount of time so yes, taking any of those things out would most definitely make chef a little(or a lot)easier.
They could easily offset this feature by increasing the factory times. I would gladly have my factory take an hour or 2 longer for this feature.
Moebius01 wrote:
I can appreciate what you're saying... but I don't really see mass-dragging as a game-breaking option. After all you still have the monumental task of gathering resources, gathering tapes, maintaining harvs and factories, crafting, cooking, and stocking... rinse, repeat. If anything would turn someone away from Chef as being "difficult"... I think it'd be one of these details.... not moving crates. Moving crates is not "difficult" per se... but rather damned annoying when most other crafting prof have to move a mere fraction of what we have to.
audioslaves wrote:
The problem is... crafting professions are NOT supposed to be easy. You're NOT supposed to enjoy every second of it. If we were granted this then factories would suddenly take a lot less time as would stocking. Would that be nice? Sure. But what else would happen? People would make even more stuff than they already do.
audioslaves wrote:
Nicka wrote:
I've always thought being a good chefs involved the following:
- keeping a well stocked vendor
- having good quality stock
- having resonable prices
- good customer service
So I fail to see why being able to move your components around faster should change anything. I thought the process of getting the best resource, aiming for all amazings and constantly keeping a close eye on your stock was what it was suppose to be. But I guess having to load hundreds of crate into factories would be considered difficult.
If being a chef only involves loading up crates into factory, I'm sure everyone and their mother can do it.
Consider the fact that if something doesn't sell then the chef wouldn't make it, so why stock more of it when it doesn't move? I'm hardly likely to increase my production output just because I can load more crates faster.
While saying that I really have no problem with any aspect of chef, its enjoyable and relaxing. I think it is fine the way it is, god knows its better off then many of the other profession out there. What I don't agree with is the assumpting that making crate of components easier to load to will make chef so easy that we will see a flood of foods on the market.
Noone said that this was the only difficult thing with chef.
Does it seem to be one that people dislike the most? Well, apparently so from most people's response to it. I dislike it just as much as everybody else - but I can also see why it's there.
I'm reminded of a post (ok rant)by a chefthat said something along the lines of "Devs should try making and selling 250 crates of bespin per week and then tell me factories and small schematics aren't stupid" (and yes I'm paraphrasing). I'm sure I never responded but my immediate thought was "what makes you think that you're supposed to sell 250 crates of bespin per week??". Annoying, tedious, time-consuming tasks do control how much product you can put out in a certain amount of time so yes, taking any of those things out would most definitely make chef a little(or a lot)easier.
If it sells, stock more of it.
Ask yourself this question: If moving crates isn't that bad, why do we all get annoyed by it?
The truth is, we love and play chef inspite of these annoyances. It may only seem small, but little things like it can really build up to actually put just the casual cash in crafters from making a stab at it.
A crafting profession should take a certain amount of dedication. Moving subcomponents is just one small thing to sort out those who are in chef for real, and those who just want to make a quick buck.
I can see what you all are saying as pros and cons... but I again have to disagree that this would cause more people to take up Chef... or any other crafting profession really. I think that if the Dev's are going to argue for a reason to NOT allow this... it had better be something besides "Crafting professions are not supposed to be easy".In the past when I was looking for a new profession... I certainly didn't look at itin terms of moving crates. I looked at it in terms of my own personal interest, thestate of the profession, and yes the relative difficulty... but,at no point did I consider crate-moving as beinggrouped in with that. I consider things like obtaining the necessary resources, cost and availability of special componants and tapes, difficulty of getting my name out there, etc etc... in my mind... moving crates never even entered into my thoughts.
Personally... I think the ONLY thing this would have impact on is our carpal tunnel. The game has determined that we need to move aridiculous amount of crates... I'd say after the nerf on our foods and profession, the least they could do would be to allow us to move more than one at a time and be a tad more efficient. I do not think that the ability to move more than one crate at a time will increase our numbers.I think if the Dev's wanted to help lessen the occurances of the "Casual-Chef" looking for the quick buck... the only detriment they needed was the Combat Upgrade. I think anyone who is afraid of this bringing in Casual-Chefs has only to look at our numbers since the CU... I've seen most Chef's I knew QUIT because of the CU... and not many have stepped up to take their place. The moment they took away Vasarian Brandy's necessity and 45minute timer... they chased away the majority of the "quick-buck" Chefs.
It'd be different ifI were calling forno more than20 minutefactorytimes... or less resource requirments... or no BE components needed, etc... Hell I'm not even asking that we don't have to move so many damn crates! But could it at least be a bit easier to move them?After the major nerf on our foods, and frankly the practically non-existant communication regarding our profession since the CU ... I'd say they owe us some more consideration. (Note: I am not blaming Higgins in any way, shape or form when I say that... I think he has done an outstanding job with the information he is given... but I place an emphasis on what "INFORMATION he is given"... i.e. not much.) I mean hehinted at information that was soon to be released... but obviously we've heard nothing yet. Again... not blaming Higgins for that... he can't FORCE them to release it... I'm sure he wishes he could tell us more.
Sorry... that last bit was my bitter side coming through. 
It's just that I'm starting to feel like the "red-headed stepchild" profession here... the last few Publishes have had Bounty Hunter and Jedi on the forefront... what happened to the rest of us?
I am not a Dev-hater... I have and will continue to appreciate the difficult job they do and will defend their efforts... but it's getting difficult to defend their efforts when they don't appear to bemaking any on my profession's behalf.
Message Edited by Moebius01 on 09-08-2005 12:03 PM
We get annoyed by it for the reason most crafters quit the game.....they get so burnt out and my personal opinion itis from all the time spent at the factories moving stuff around. I have been a chef for a while now and spend several hours a day crafting and moving...crafting a nd moving...crafting and moving......I miss out on a lot ofthings in the game.(Real Life too) Crafters still have to harvest the resources, get the attachments, obtain the factory lots, customer service, so many things to be successful. Why not give us this one thing? I hardly see how it will ruin the economy. I seriously doubt a noob chef will take over my business just because he can now move stuff to the factory quicker.The successful chefs will still be successful because they have the resources and the know-how to operate a good business........only now they will have time to play the game too.
Higginsis wrote:
Moving those crates takes time. Time means more work. More work means less people willing to do it. Less people means a better economy and a more balanced market.
Ask yourself this question: If moving crates isn't that bad, why do we all get annoyed by it?
The truth is, we love and play chef inspite of these annoyances. It may only seem small, but little things like it can really build up to actually put just the casual cash in crafters from making a stab at it.
A crafting profession should take a certain amount of dedication. Moving subcomponents is just one small thing to sort out those who are in chef for real, and those who just want to make a quick buck.
I suggest you masochists that support tedious things like moving each crate individually go pleasure yourself with pain elsewhere and let this stand as a valid complaint/request for the devs to look into.
Don_T_Shoot wrote:
It's busy work, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with the quality of product and service. And it has nothing to do with integrity of crafting.
I suggest you masochists that support tedious things like moving each crate individually go pleasure yourself with pain elsewhere and let this stand as a valid complaint/request for the devs to look into.
Ok,since this is "busy work" and you clearly think there is no reason for "busy work" in crafting we must also assume that you want all other "busy work" taken out too, right? If that's the case well... let's not stop at this. Just have a magical button you push to make it all go wherever you want to. Let's make all components not matter serial number wise. Let's make survey droids just give us the stats as well when they return their info. Let's not make you have to move stuff from your factories to your vendor to stock it - let's just put another magical button for that.
Actually, since crafting is clearly just too much work as is why don't we have the bartendars pass out perfect stat foods and drinks for 10 credits and then we an spend all our time actually "playing" the game instead of wasting it on all this horrid "crafting".
Oh and btw, think you forgot to read that Higgins' said it's already been passed on to the devs before and they said "no it's necessary so cmn" (that's me paraphrasing again).
(And PS since your post was a bit pompous and condescending I figured I'd follow suit, thus the tone of my reply so please don't take offense)
And let me state again since no one seems to be understanding this part: If crafting takes too long and istootediousthen craft less!!!so you can "play the game" (weird person that I am I thought crafting was playing the game... don't I feel dumb now).
audioslaves wrote:
Ok,since this is "busy work" and you clearly think there is no reason for "busy work" in crafting we must also assume that you want all other "busy work" taken out too, right? If that's the case well... let's not stop at this. Just have a magical button you push to make it all go wherever you want to. Let's make all components not matter serial number wise. Let's make survey droids just give us the stats as well when they return their info. Let's not make you have to move stuff from your factories to your vendor to stock it - let's just put another magical button for that.
And let me state again since no one seems to be understanding this part: If crafting takes too long and istootediousthen craft less!!!so you can "play the game" (weird person that I am I thought crafting was playing the game... don't I feel dumb now).
Good Gawd... listen I am normally NOT a bitter person... and I usually prefer to take the high road when it comes to debating butsome of thesereplies are really rubbing me the wrong way.That being said I apologize if my reply sounds harsh... it's nothing personal.
I KNOW his reply was worded poorly and was unecessarily abrasive... I didn't like it either. BUT... your reply didn't help the matter.It's not being clever, it's generalizing, andit's appeared to have totally missed the point. I am NOT looking for charity here. I am not a lazy person... I am not asking this so I can just ease my way through Chef. Damnit I am NOT asking for a "magic button". Factory times=OK. Serial Numbers=OK. Survey Droids=USELESS but FINE. Resources=OK. Tapes=OK. Restocking=OK. Dependancy on BE=OK. Pathetic Food Timers=OK. Broken Foods... Useless Foods... Foods that do the same thing... Limiting stacking... NO Dev communication... FINE. Can we ask for ANYTHING?
And your solution to the tedium is frankly short-sighted.Let me just make sure I understand you... If I see a "problem" or an in-game limitation that I beleive there is a better solution for... I should just shut up and either deal with it or craft less. Perfect. I do not intend to do either... Your solution does not work for me.
Listen... if you always do what you've always done... you'll always GET what you've always gotten. See what I mean? Nobody ever got ANYTHING done by not asking or doing nothing or pre-assuming they couldn't do it.If we as Chefs do nothing to improve the state of our profession or automatically assume that the Devs will say no to every idea... then nothing will EVER change... the Devs will not do anything for us and months from now you and I will still be here having the same discussion.
ok /rant off.
I'm not trying to make enemies here or be the new "gripe-boy"... it just seems like some folks are trying to shoot the idea down without really giving it a chance.
Can I have a hug??