Chef Archive
Thread: Current BE Additives Stupid? A Suggestion...Please offer comments...
Ankor
Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:45 pm
#14
TheEpigoni wrote:Okay, I've been chef now for about a weekit simply didn't make sense and no Chef's had asked him for them before. Being my typical self I said "These people are all idiots and don't know what they're doing, they're just dull-minded sheep that wouldn't know what exploring and experimenting is if it hit them in the ass with a frying pan."
No offense, but your "typical self" sounds like a real jerk.>Now to the point, what exactly did I learn out of this. That BE Additives other than Nutrient are USELESS!
us dull-minded sheep noted that when the revamp was on TC.
Your proposals wandered a bit (well, a lot) and I'm not really sure what most of it has to do with the first half of your post, but let me offer you some advice:
Spend more time than a week observing and learning about our profession before you decide that you know everything and have all the answers. While it's true that most of the non-nutrition additives are useless in most foods for most customers, that hardly means that there's no variety. You dismiss options that some customers find valuable like quantity experimentation on Brandy. There's a long list of useful foods now (I currently have about 30 items on my product list), and the list only grows when you consider different varieties of the same foods.
Cheffing may not be perfect, but it's hardly in the terrible shape you claim. We don't need a complete rewrite of the Experimentation system or to redesign the very concept of BE additives.
sciguyCO
Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:12 pm
#15
NancyJ wrote:
*pops into thread*
*slants eyes at SciGuy*
I'm watching you
/halo
Didn't you see this?
sciguyCOwrote:
Let's just try not to piss off the BEs doing it, they have bunnys with sharp pointy teeth.
If nothing else, I think something should be done to equalize the benefit from the various tissues (taking the resource requirements into account) which could possibly quadruple your business.
/considers the amount of work BEs currently put into tissue production
Hmm, maybe that's not such a good point to bring up...
NancyJ
Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:28 pm
#16
sciguyCO wrote:If nothing else, I think something should be done to equalize the benefit from the various tissues (taking the resource requirements into account) which could possibly quadruple your business.
/considers the amount of work BEs currently put into tissue production
Hmm, maybe that's not such a good point to bring up...
...variety is the spice of life
Morganite
Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:15 pm
#17
IMO, the reason these other tissues are not used is because what factor is more important to a customer then the power of the buff they receive from our products? Nobody is going to pay 200k/crate for +450 for 12 minute vercupti's at 50 filling when they can get +1100 for 7 minute 50 filling.. If I used a filling addative instead of power, to make it worthwhile, I would need to be able to take 5 that gave me more of a bonus then 2 with power. 2 brandy's using a filling addative to get them down to 33 filling is still only +460 for 45 minutes at 66 filling, where 1 power enhanced brandy is +430 for 45 minutes at 50 filling.
The bases need to be higher, and the effects of the addatives scaled to keep them at current enhanecd levels for finished products. That promote's diversity more then any new receipe could... I would go thru the pain to make filling reducing, or duration enhancing addatives if I could show people how they got a better product. (obviously at a higher price as a tradeoff)
Let's get janta missions nerfed while we are at it, then these things wont cost as much to produce as they currently do, giving more room for profits to the BE's...
Dsabre
Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:29 pm
#18
NancyJ wrote:
*pops into thread*
*slants eyes at SciGuy*
I'm watching you
uh-oh...can you hear those bunnies yet sciguyCo? I'd loan you a holy hand grenade of antioch...but I can't seem to remember where I left it.
as for the BE tissues...I think the best that can reasonably be hoped for at this time is for the benefits to be equalized...not by nerfing the nutrition ones...or even really by increasing the power of the other ones...mainly by altering the resource requirements...
like change milk to meat for the flavor ones
change domestic meat to domestic wheat for the filling ones
and well the quantity ones are ok as is...there just isn't much point in them as most people are rich enough to not really care about the number of uses.
changes to the requirements probably stand a better chance of getting through than adjusting the power levels...but if the power can be improved, and the resource requirements lowered...that would be even better.
Morganite
Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:23 am
#19
I agree the Be's got screwed.
The most meat you can get out of a buff session is 35k. I have had enough rangers test to know this is true, 35k off dath, 27k off endor, 24k off dant, 21k off yavin/buff period...
On my server, people realized they didnt need to spend sp's on scout, when they can put it all into combat, and make loads of cash off janta's/mokk missions in a solo group. If missions only paid 10k, people would go back to getting scout, then we (crafters dependant on creature resources) could pay less for our needs, and make up the difference so the missions still paid the same as current mission prices..
The economy is getting to a have's and have not's at least on my server. Those who have the time and incalanationto grind missions in a solo-group have money (talking about non established and therefore rich crafters here) Those whom have the time and desire to loot camp eventually get good and thus enriching loot. Those who dont have that are all poor, and thus never get to learn all the aspects of the game. I give crates of unenhanced brandy away in mos eisley (the starting city on my server) to help the new players out, and create future buisness.
When I firtst started playing over a year ago, the only ways to get rich for non crafters were either hunting for creature resources, orresource mining. Now nobody does either anymore because mokk missions are so much easier for equal money, and no need to waste sp's on scout. or artisan for a combat character.
Spazzers
Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:27 am
#20
"What especially pissed me off when I talked to a Bio Engineer on my server was that he refused to make any additives for me other than the Nutrient ones because it simply didn't make sense and no Chef's had asked him for them before."
I can understand being upset but I don't think your BE was slighting you or chef's in general. A BE isn't going to spend the time and energy to harvest the stupidly rediculous resources required to make some of the tissues which in the end add very little to chef foods. The price for those tissues to make the effort involved worth it would be more than any chef would pay anyway.
Truly, BE's make 3 tissues for chefs. BSN, INN, and MNS. That's pretty much it. BSN are by far the most common. Why? Because the requirements are doable. Mind you it takes quality resources to make all of them. No chef is going to buy a BSN below +80. Most won't buy below +85. That means the 20K stack of meat has to have an OQ in the 900's and a PE and FL in the 800's at the very least. This also applies to the Flora. The stat requirements are the same for all the resources used in tissues. You can't just slap crap resources together and come out with a good product. The silver lining is the resources aren't particular meaning they don't have to be Talus flora and Dath carni. That's what makes these 3 tissues doable and why you'll be hard pressed to find a BE that will make anything else.
The prices for tissues won't come down. Sorry, but there's a bit of blatant honesty for you. The pressure on the meat market prohibits the price for tissues to be reduced. If anything you can expect tissues to increase in price. Either that or tissues will become less and less available. It's not because there are fewer BE's either. It's because of the availability of meat. If I can make more money selling meat to a doctor why would I make tissues out of it at a net loss?
If it were left up to me I'd remove all the chef tissues from the BE line except those three I've mentioned. I'd replace them with tissues for armorsmiths and weaponsmiths. Somethingto replace a krayt tissue but be less potent for example. I believe crafters would buy these even if the resources were something asstupid as mollusks.
Message Edited by Spazzers on 09-16-2004 12:29 PM
TheEpigoni
Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:43 am
#21
Yeah, the reason I was pissed is beacuse I didn't actually want a large ammount, just wanted a few to test, and the BE wouldn't even do just that for me. But a hardcore BE probably doesn't have time for that, hehe.
I definatly agree, I just posted how production cost for BEs is 30k a crate, and sale price is 40k/50k. Absolutely ridiculous =/.
As for different additives, that's actually pretty cool. Maybe something that's a little worse than the "base" loot drops...
Although I would like to keep the other chef additives, just make them more useful =D.
Oh and I guess I was wrong about the meat per buff session, seemed like I really got a ton when I didn't really kill that much (spent a bunch of time killing STs too, hehe) and I only hunted for an hour, still got 7k. Oh well.
kchip187
Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:02 am
#22
Hmmm.. MBE here..
Lots of F/C on my Vendor of all kinds of Chef stuff , BSN @ 83-84....Nobody buys anything but BSN.
/shrugs
d2a007
Fri Sep 17, 2004 7:51 am
#23
Biytor wrote:
As a Master Ranger/ Mater Riflemen on my alt. Even hunting Enraged Rancors solo (not grouped)and getting full harvests for each using a +114 droid and +30 Veghash. The is now way you can harvest 50K of meat in 3 hours. I've tired repeatedly to do this and the best I've gotten is 38K or a little better then 12K an hour.
I sent a master swordsman/brawler out last night with scoutharvesting 1 and +31 veghash,he brougt me back over 50k carn meat in under 2 hours. your number seems way low. i think he said he was pulling 330-420 a rancor and you get like 10-15 on a natural lair thats around 5k meat a lair. Are you hunting meat in a group and pulling missions? If so you getting hit by a 40% loss of meat for being in a group and only pulling 6-8 rancors on a missionlair normaly.
Crazyana
d2a007
Fri Sep 17, 2004 8:40 am
#24
TheEpigoni wrote:
Just talked to my local friendly BE. She tells me that her raw resource cost on good additives is 30k a crate. I buy them from her at 50k a crate (most sell at 40). And I've seen Chefs on here complain about Only a 3x Profit. Scary.
Eww i think our prices on radiant are much better 
my break down for BE stuff
35x1000 organic 2.5(maybe 2 cpu)cpu 975OQ soft wood 87.5k(i look for this stuff now its normaly a little cheaper then using the normal veggies/fruits for BE stuff and only the OQ seems to matter.
25x1000 floral 3.0 cpu Tubers(no clue on the stats off hand but really good from a shift last week) 75k
20x1000 Creature Food 10 cpu Dath Carn Meat high qualtiy stuff. 200K
All of these items were purchased, so my finnal cost is 362.5k for a full run of 40 crates. I could turn around and sell these to another chef on my server for around 40k a crate or 1.6 million so somewhere in the 350% profit. Now if they didn't take upto 4+ days to be done i would be so happy
TheEpigoni
Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:44 pm
#25
The prices you mentioned on good organic and flora are Masssively! cheap.
2.5 cpu for flora? - About half the grind stuff on our server goes for this price
2.5 cpu for organic? - This, maybe although you need alot of high quality wood for tailor tissues as well, so once again hard to believe
10 cpu for meat??? - Never inthe history of playing this game have I seen meat sell for cheaper than 15 cpu. Never.
So if prices are this good on you're server, I'm jealous =D.
As for 4+ days, try being a DE, all components take a minimum of 100 per item, final product is ussualy 250ish per item. Yeesh.
But yeah, 4+ days is bad =(. Can't keep up with sales sometimes.
d2a007
Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:00 pm
#26
I have a very good supplier , and it seems radiant is a little cheaper than most of the servers. btw that meat is in the 950pe/950oq/675ish fl(i belive at work and can't check) i'm making runs of 86/87 BSN right now.
, and it seems radiant is a little cheaper than most of the servers. btw that meat is in the 950pe/950oq/675ish fl(i belive at work and can't check) i'm making runs of 86/87 BSN right now. Crazyana
EDIT: stats on the meat are 971PE/931OQ/682FL
Message Edited by d2a007 on 09-17-2004 02:04 PM