Chef Archive
Thread: That reminds me: we're asking TH a question next week...
sciguyCO wrote:
(or the slight chance that he was just wrong).
MilkToast wrote:
SciguyCO,
I remember you mentioning these options in your Fan Fest post, that's why I brought it up again. I really like the +2 experiment option and I really hate the "more amazing successes' option. I was hoping by asking the question before the effect is 'set in stone' we could have some infuence on the decision. Maybe we could word the question in a way that indicates our ( or at least my) preference, such as,
'We are very interested in the effect that force experimentationwill have oncrafting experimentation. Increasing the number of experimentation pointsbased on the force experimentation skill level (with a maxiumum increase of +2) seems like a really smart idea, havingit increase the chance of an amazing success seems really stupid. Are you going to do something really smart or stupid?
Maybe not those exact words, but you get the idea, lol.
Thanks.
Well, the thing is, most crafters I've heard discuss this on the forums and at Fan Fest were pretty split on the Force Exp. issue: some want +2 points, some don't. The ones who don't argue that it would make an even larger gap between the casual 10 point crafters and the newly-possible 14 point crafters. Depending on the difficulty of the FS quests in pub10, that may or may not be a large factor. Plus, there are also dev concerns that it's a bit too easy for a small group of crafters to flood the market of an entire server. If 14 points gives a noticeable improvement over 12, that can lead to even more monopolization of items by hard-core players.
That's not to say that there aren't options.
- Put back the +2 FS experimentation points, allow them to stack with tapes, leading to a few 14 point crafters and probably an increase in 12 point crafters.
- Put back the +2 FS experimentation points, but don't allow them to stack with tapes. This keeps the max at 12 points, but gives crafters an additional path to get the extra 2 (leading to more 12 point crafters).
- Leave FS experimentation at "improves chances for amazing success" and also add back the "amazing success bumps percentage maximum" feature we had on that one-day revamp.
- Leave FS experimentation at "improves chances for amazing success", leave percentage maximums capped solely by resource quality.
#1 is what was told to us at Fan Fest. #4 appears to be where we're at now. Although I suppose it's possible the "amazing bump" is in the Pub9 code, I haven't actually checked (been too busy playing with my glowstick ). Keldarin and GreenMarine passed on some "secret" info about amazings increasing maxes in a crafting panel, but that does not show up when testing on Live. They could've forgotten that it was taken out with the crafting revamp, forgotten that it wasn't in Live yet (assuming it's in pub9) or just been hungover from partying with the correspondants the night before. 
sciguyCO wrote:
Put back the +2 FS experimentation points, but don't allow them to stack with tapes. This keeps the max at 12 points, but gives crafters an additional path to get the extra 2 (leading to more 12 point crafters).
With this I think I could swallow the extra two point addition - I'm all for multiple paths to reach the same goal. However, is anything else not currently allowed to stack with tapes? If this system isn't already in place, I don't see it being put in - generally subsystems such as this play the conformity game.
Message Edited by CoolDog on 06-17-2004 08:43 PM
For what it's worth, I have a 12 point chef on TC, also with +25 assembly. I haven't seen a change in experimentation maxs from pre to post publish9 while using the same ingredients. Likewise, on TC2 with the full Crafting Mastery tree, I'm getting pretty much exactly the same food (reiterated by making crates and crates with exactly the same stats every wipe), with basically one more amazing success per item, which results in having an extra experimentation point to spend elsewhere, but doesn't increase the max nutrition of my food (or any other stat).
sciguyCO wrote:
Although I suppose it's possible the "amazing bump" is in the Pub9 code, I haven't actually checked (been too busy playing with my glowstick
sciguyCO wrote:
MilkToast wrote:
SciguyCO,
I remember you mentioning these options in your Fan Fest post, that's why I brought it up again. I really like the +2 experiment option and I really hate the "more amazing successes' option. I was hoping by asking the question before the effect is 'set in stone' we could have some infuence on the decision. Maybe we could word the question in a way that indicates our ( or at least my) preference, such as,
'We are very interested in the effect that force experimentationwill have oncrafting experimentation. Increasing the number of experimentation pointsbased on the force experimentation skill level (with a maxiumum increase of +2) seems like a really smart idea, havingit increase the chance of an amazing success seems really stupid. Are you going to do something really smart or stupid?
Maybe not those exact words, but you get the idea, lol.
Thanks.
Well, the thing is, most crafters I've heard discuss this on the forums and at Fan Fest were pretty split on the Force Exp. issue: some want +2 points, some don't. The ones who don't argue that it would make an even larger gap between the casual 10 point crafters and the newly-possible 14 point crafters. Depending on the difficulty of the FS quests in pub10, that may or may not be a large factor. Plus, there are also dev concerns that it's a bit too easy for a small group of crafters to flood the market of an entire server. If 14 points gives a noticeable improvement over 12, that can lead to even more monopolization of items by hard-core players.
That's not to say that there aren't options.
- Put back the +2 FS experimentation points, allow them to stack with tapes, leading to a few 14 point crafters and probably an increase in 12 point crafters.
- Put back the +2 FS experimentation points, but don't allow them to stack with tapes. This keeps the max at 12 points, but gives crafters an additional path to get the extra 2 (leading to more 12 point crafters).
- Leave FS experimentation at "improves chances for amazing success" and also add back the "amazing success bumps percentage maximum" feature we had on that one-day revamp.
- Leave FS experimentation at "improves chances for amazing success", leave percentage maximums capped solely by resource quality.
#1 is what was told to us at Fan Fest. #4 appears to be where we're at now. Although I suppose it's possible the "amazing bump" is in the Pub9 code, I haven't actually checked (been too busy playing with my glowstick
Yes, I understand the issues and I also understand that my opinion may put me in the minority, but I am not going to staymute like I did during the last crafting change fiasco. Many people where screaming nerf about changes that they didn't even understand. This led tothe rollback of changes thatmay actuallyhave been animprovement to the crafting system. That is, if you considered the ability to craft better items an improvement (which I do).
I really enjoy crafting and have no desire to play a jedi or a combat character. I would like the ability to development and improve my character as a crafter. I see these Jedi changes as the only hope to accomplish this for the foreseeable future by increasing the maximum experimentation points to 14.
I want a challange and I want to see more depth in all the professions, especially mine (i.e. chef). The fact that some player with more time or resources thanI can get +14 crafting points weeks or months before I do is fine with me. It will just encourage me to work harder. Crafting is a capitalistic profession, I just don't understand this 'no chef left behind' attitude.
You've done a great job as chef correspondent and I'm sure you'll doyour best to represent the majority of the chef community on this issue. Unfortunately, that probably means option #4.
Thanks.
1) 2 extra points...or better experimental results (just like bespin port)
2) will pure crafters be able to complete the fs quests for the crafting boxes in publish10
3) since combat oriented players have almost exclusively been pursuing jedi...can the "crafting trees" be removed until publish 10...that way combat players switching to crafting (in fear of the combat rebalance) aren't better than the existing dedicated crafters for at least a month (time between publish 9 and 10)
so possibly worded like:
"With publish 9 drawing near, many crafters are concerned over the possibility of some players being able to use 2 extra experimentation points more than anyone who has not yet unlocked jedi for an entire month, with there being no way for the rest of the player base to acquire these extra points until publish 10. The primary cause for this concern is that very few dedicated crafters have pursued Jedi, choosing instead to remain committed to their chosen crafting profession. Some have even forsaken the pursuit of Jedi in order to take on vital roles within a community. Would it be possible to have the implementation of the FS crafting trees delayed (or rendered useless) until publish 10 when there will hopefully be a non-combat oriented path towards attaining these boxes?"
as for the amazing success bump...it isn't on live, and I suspect that like a lot of other things...the devs need to improve communication between each other.
the dev in charge originally coding BE's was puzzled that illegal pets could be created...i.e. the dev who did the revamp coding didn't "share" the info very well. a lot of the devs also got pulled away to do JTL...so its likely that they weren't kept "in the loop", and thus were responding with outdated, and possibly irrelevent information...not because they wanted to lie to everyone...but simply because no one told them otherwise (at least not until it was too late). either that or sciguyCo put some spice into the devs' drinks instead of truth serum...
MilkToast wrote:
This isn't chef specific, but I would like to know how the force experimentation skill will effect crafting experimentation. Specially, will it give us additional experimentation points or just be a modifier to the experimentation roll like bespin port.
Personally, I 'm hoping for 2 additional experimentation points.
Absolutely. That is question #1 thorugh #10's.