Chef Archive
Thread: well the be worked it out...
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Grozurr
Mon Jul 05, 2004 10:27 pm
#1
ok for those of you that posted on the supply/demand thread i put up, you probably know that i made a comment about how i might look into the be prices and such, as i mentioned that for a be to sell a crate of bsns at 25k/crate is near impossible...
well i crunched a few numbers and suffice to say i came to that same conclusion...that it's not happening anytime soon.
i won't say directly what i found untill i check w/ some of the forums be's, but i will state this:
-i don't know what quality of resources have to be available to get the +85 bsns, but i experimented with some very nice, very rare meat and some nice floral resource on my server and managed to discover that i could only get a max of +85. knowing the quality of the resources i was using alone, i found it difficult to accept thatthe quality of resource i was using could only create the +85s (i was hoping to see an 86),while i've gotten the impression from some responses and from the forumsthat the +84/85 bsns are "expected" of be's from the chefs. I was extremely lucky to get what i did from a guildie, so testing this cost me a comparative nothing to what it would have cost on the open market running a full scale operation. [in case you want to crunch #'s and you're on kauri like i am, i used "the old dath insect meat"-you know what i mean if you've been around awhile-and the talusian domesticated rice that is spawning as of jul 5th(you can find this on www.swgcraft.com]
-ok, so taking a look at what i had, and asking around a bit from guildies and such i got an idea of what the general concensus on resource prices were. taking that i did the math and found that given prices of what i had used, 25k for a crate of 25 bsns was not only not possible to make a profit, but if i were to sell them at such a price i would be running a heavy deficit.
***just fyi for those of you who might be thinking "why would a be sell bsns for 25k?" i just used an answer i got on another post that appeared to be mentioning a "wouldn't it be great if..." scenario. after reading this i couldn't help but wonder if it was even possible to sell it at that.***
ok so on a quick summary of the problems between our prices/items and your ideal purchase prices, ect...
-be is, contrary to chef, not very profitable (from a crafting standpoint that is)...and while prices do vary (sometimes greatly) on servers, i've found one thing to appear to stay the same: be's do not/cannot make a lot of money off of what they make. i can't say the cr amount that a chef would make off of a brandy or crate of food/beverage x, but i can tell you that for a be we make no more than a few hundred cr off each bsn, despite the trouble we go through to get our foot in the meat-market. (this in turn makes it hard for us to get the meat we need to create bsns, both because we aren't rich and because we dont' make the massive amounts of credits to compete well in the meat market)
-BE items are heavily dependent on the quality of theresources we use. unlike every other profession, there is neither a possible "11/12pt be" ( no be exp skill tapes), nor if there were would it make the items any better-it's not uncommon for a be to max the possible value on a chef suppliment item before spending all the skill pts. so because we are so dependent on resource quality, we have to buy the highest quality possible and both a) charge more to break even and b) it is not always possible for us to turn out the higher quality of the suppliments due to resource availability.
-STOCKING: stocking becomes a problem as much for us as it is for you. often times we either don't have the cr to buy the meat we need to keep stock or can't find the quality of meat that we need for our stuff to sell, so we don't buy it and can't produce our items to stock vendors. additionally, because other professions need meat (see doctor, chef, ect), and often are profitable enough to purchase the quantity of meat that they need at a higher cpu, be's can have trouble getting meat because when a good spawn comes along other professions have the power (both purchasing and influence) to get what they need.
-Ok so some people may be wondering why this happens and the only reason i can think of is this: chefs, doctors, and armorsmiths, for example, all have services that can be rendered to help the "common" player-buffing, stat mods, protection, ect. the be, unfortunatly, has a much less broad area to focus his/her goods, meaning that other players (such as hunters) are less likely to help them gather meat b/c the question arises in the back of their mind "what can they do for me?" In the presence of a chef or doctor or armorsmith, the answer comes to "stat increases, buffs, armor", however when a BE asks for the resource, "-------n/a------" happens, because the be cannot give them anything that would benefit them directly-even modded clothes have to go through a tailor first-so anyone except the very few CH's will not see the benefit other than credits to giving a BE what they need (and even some ch's are reluctant to help b/c pets last so long and you don't need as many of them). this is just what i see happening, both in and out of my guild. in my experience, people were very ready to jump to harvest good wolly hide for the armorsmiths, however when i told people about good meat and that i needed it, the response wasgenerally "well i'll get some if i get around to it". just my experience and opinion.
-As to meat- acuiring the meat that a BE needs is especially difficult in terms of getting a high enough quality to make the meat, then further getting enough of it to make the large number of crates demanded. fyi to all the chefs that haven't checked on it- 100 crates of BSN's will take a minimum of 50000 excellent quality meat in order to make good bsns. Getting the meat we need is by far the most difficult part for the be's that do suppliments on a regular basis. again our money issue comes in when we can't afford to buy enough meat to make all the bsn's that are demanded, and even if meat is as low as 15cpu, the meat alone will cost 3/4 of a million alone for the be to make 100crates. add in the costs of organic resources at the quality we need, and the cost can rise fast.
well that's what i've got here. i'll see if any of the BE's have anything else i should mention, if so i'll edit. i hope this helps clear some things up for the chefs. if any BE's have comments or valid corrections please post here and i'll see about making changes
Grozzer
kauri galaxy- MBE
Message Edited by Grozurr on 07-06-2004 01:52 PM
Battery
Mon Jul 05, 2004 11:30 pm
#2
The price of high BE tissues really depends on whats in shift. If dath carm meat is good it's cheap and easy for BEs to get +86s or better. If it's rori insect meat the price goes way up.
When a rancor gives you 200-300/ harvest it doesn't take the hunter long to get 20k and most times will sell for 10-15k while it's in shift + they're getting 35-40k/ mission
If you're pulling 5 units / harvest and getting 2k / mission the meat isn't going to be sold cheap.
I think out of all the crafting professions BE prices varry the most and with good reason.
If this seemed like a rant or make no sence at all.....then I shouldn't make posts on my way to bed 
night 
Grozurr
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:28 pm
#3
please don't from now on on your way to bed lol... and i quote what i wrote and starred at the bottom:
Grozurr wrote:
-----------------------------------------------******************************------------------------------------------i'll be back tomorrow have to go to bed now before i keel overplease don't post here i'll get the rest down tomorrow and then we can all post and such. hope this helps, but again, please wait to post till i finish!
-----------------------------------------------******************************------------------------------------------
Grozzer
kauri galaxy
please next time read the ENTIRE POST. ty.
Grozurr
Tue Jul 06, 2004 1:54 pm
#4
ok lets open this up and post away i'm interested about what there is to be said on the issue.
Grozzer
MBE
PurpleWarrior
Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:17 pm
#5
I think we already did the BSN pricing v Chef Payments thing in some detail on the BE forum.
It's not worth making BSNs. Tailor tissues give a reasonable profit with much lower quality resources.
To make a +85 tissue you need to be using resources capable of giving a 25/30 bonus or 833/833/833 meat and flora. To make a Tailor tissue at +13 we only need 13/20 bonus or 650/650/650.
To cap it all, we are offered a pittance (25K-30K) for the crate of BSNs which are then used to produce crates of Brandy at 200-250K each...
ArthurDent did a nice bit of maths on the BE forum which showed that even paying 30K for the BSNs it means the Chef's bulk-harvested flora/mineralresources for the Brandy are being valued at 30cpu. Feel free to check his figures...
A heavy harvester on a 70% resource spot using Fusion power produces resources at 0.2cpu
I'm making my own Chef, and that's the only Chef I'll ever produce a BSN for again.
Grozurr
Tue Jul 06, 2004 7:42 pm
#6
yeah i'm not surprised-kinda what i found. a guy in my guild is cutting out the middleman and doing the whole be/chef thing. sad that it's becoming the prime way to do this sort of thing.
the point i'm trying to make by posing this on the Chef section is how the be stuff is really undervalued. i'm pretty sure all of the sudden be stuff would be more valuable and stuff could be priced higher if almost all the be's cut their production for a week or two and put prices higher, or just started pricing more per crate. i'm really thinking we've been undercutting ourselves...just was wondering the reaction i would get from the chef community on our dilema.
Message Edited by Grozurr on 07-06-2004 07:47 PM
Dsabre
Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:46 pm
#7
Grozurr wrote:yeah i'm not surprised-kinda what i found. a guy in my guild is cutting out the middleman and doing the whole be/chef thing. sad that it's becoming the prime way to do this sort of thing.the point i'm trying to make by posing this on the Chef section is how the be stuff is really undervalued. i'm pretty sure all of the sudden be stuff would be more valuable and stuff could be priced higher if almost all the be's cut their production for a week or two and put prices higher, or just started pricing more per crate. i'm really thinking we've been undercutting ourselves...just was wondering the reaction i would get from the chef community on our dilema.Message Edited by Grozurr on 07-06-2004 07:47 PM
making 85's isn't all that hard...if you can find some really great flora (900+ for PE/OQ/FL) then all you need to do is find meat thats >= 1800 when you add up PE/FL/OQ....this isn't very good meat...but its not bad...+88's are difficult to make as normally dath carnivore meat doesn't ever get good enough...and everything else takes a while to harvest.
if BE's stopped producing for a week or so...what you would probably see is the chefs who were thinking about picking up BE pick up BE, and not just think about it. most of the high volume chefs have already found partnerships either with a PA mate, or a BE they've found can reliably supply good additives...
walking around to various BE shops only to find less than full runs, or nothing at all is a major factor in some chefs wanting schems...or seeking partners instead of looking for stocked vendors.
BE's keep comparing tissue prices to brandy prices...if they'd stop doing that they'd stop getting so insanely pissed off. brandy prices are proportionately higher than most of the other foods/drinks...rarely is this not the case, as on most servers prices for berries and fruits are higher than...oh say wild corn (if you could even find any). think of chefs like a fast food joint and it might help you out more...sure we make a good amount on brandy...but then look at everything else...calculate what our cost to make it is, and then see what the average prices are...with a few exceptions...the profit isn't all that great. fast food joints make a killing on soda's...but don't make much at all on burgers. the profit on the soda's lets them sell the burgers for a lower profit margin and still end up doing ok. (do not even think about comparing to movie theatre concession stands...those things make such a huge profit on everything...its sickening...they don't even need to charge for the tickets to turn a profit ex. charge $4.50 for a soda that costs them $.30...that'd be like a chef charging 1 mil for a crate of average brandy...probably more)
all other things aside (especially greed) and this is essentially how a chef shop operates...1 or 2 things making good profit...everything else...not so good. jack up the prices on tissues...and not only will brandy prices go up...but all of the cheaper stuff goes up too.
JayceMilam
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:34 pm
#8
I agree with you making +85's isn;t that hard .. neither is +86 really. The problem is it is EXPENSIVE!!!!! There fore it is not worht it for a BE to make the supplements when you he/she is not adequately compensated. As for not having a stocked vendor? I have a vendor on Brai that sits there day after day filled with crates of +84/85, they are full runs, they are crate after crates of 25's. I must have over 100 crates on there right now. I know my vendor is on Lok and so it is out of the way. But sit there they do. So why should I bother ... I have one or two chefs I deal with, other than that? I will probably stop making them myself, it just isn't worth it. Recently on Bria there was Dath Carn meat with High 900 OQ, High 800 Pe and High 700 Flav this went for 30cpu at the highest though i never pay more than 15cpu myself. So I ended up with about a million of this and used it for several runs. Then the meat shifts and the new stuff is High 800 OQ High 900 PE and 496 Flavor. Can you guess what happened? That is right people still want 10-15 cpu for it. It is a joke it simply isn't worth that. I got tired of explaining to people how one stat in the high 900's didn;t make up for crappy flavor and i got tired of defending myself from people who said i was trying to rip them off. So forget it .. . I started palying to have fun. Not spend ever credit I have to buy meat to make 100-200cr profit on a crate of BSN, just to start all over trying to buy meat. It is a vicious circle and I quit.
JayceMilam
Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:35 pm
#9
I agree with you making +85's isn;t that hard .. neither is +86 really. The problem is it is EXPENSIVE!!!!! There fore it is not worht it for a BE to make the supplements when you he/she is not adequately compensated. As for not having a stocked vendor? I have a vendor on Brai that sits there day after day filled with crates of +84/85, they are full runs, they are crate after crates of 25's. I must have over 100 crates on there right now. I know my vendor is on Lok and so it is out of the way. But sit there they do. So why should I bother ... I have one or two chefs I deal with, other than that? I will probably stop making them myself, it just isn't worth it. Recently on Bria there was Dath Carn meat with High 900 OQ, High 800 Pe and High 700 Flav this went for 30cpu at the highest though i never pay more than 15cpu myself. So I ended up with about a million of this and used it for several runs. Then the meat shifts and the new stuff is High 800 OQ High 900 PE and 496 Flavor. Can you guess what happened? That is right people still want 10-15 cpu for it. It is a joke it simply isn't worth that. I got tired of explaining to people how one stat in the high 900's didn;t make up for crappy flavor and i got tired of defending myself from people who said i was trying to rip them off. So forget it .. . I started palying to have fun. Not spend ever credit I have to buy meat to make 100-200cr profit on a crate of BSN, just to start all over trying to buy meat. It is a vicious circle and I quit.
Batman_TWB
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:14 pm
#10
JayceMilam wrote:
I agree with you making +85's isn;t that hard .. neither is +86 really. The problem is it is EXPENSIVE!!!!! There fore it is not worht it for a BE to make the supplements when you he/she is not adequately compensated. As for not having a stocked vendor? I have a vendor on Brai that sits there day after day filled with crates of +84/85, they are full runs, they are crate after crates of 25's. I must have over 100 crates on there right now. I know my vendor is on Lok and so it is out of the way. But sit there they do. So why should I bother ... I have one or two chefs I deal with, other than that? I will probably stop making them myself, it just isn't worth it. Recently on Bria there was Dath Carn meat with High 900 OQ, High 800 Pe and High 700 Flav this went for 30cpu at the highest though i never pay more than 15cpu myself. So I ended up with about a million of this and used it for several runs. Then the meat shifts and the new stuff is High 800 OQ High 900 PE and 496 Flavor. Can you guess what happened? That is right people still want 10-15 cpu for it. It is a joke it simply isn't worth that. I got tired of explaining to people how one stat in the high 900's didn;t make up for crappy flavor and i got tired of defending myself from people who said i was trying to rip them off. So forget it .. . I started palying to have fun. Not spend ever credit I have to buy meat to make 100-200cr profit on a crate of BSN, just to start all over trying to buy meat. It is a vicious circle and I quit.
Dude I wish ya were on Tempest. I know of 1 BE vendor that stocks nutrients but he does it in singles of the love of god. What am I going to do with singles? Anyways it seems most Chefs on tempest are BEs as well, so this just kills me since I only have 1 char and no alts to make BE/Chef combos and I love to much being able to go out and kick some rear with my guildmates.
Dsabre
Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:46 pm
#11
JayceMilam wrote:I agree with you making +85's isn;t that hard .. neither is +86 really. The problem is it is EXPENSIVE!!!!! There fore it is not worht it for a BE to make the supplements when you he/she is not adequately compensated. As for not having a stocked vendor? I have a vendor on Brai that sits there day after day filled with crates of +84/85, they are full runs, they are crate after crates of 25's. I must have over 100 crates on there right now. I know my vendor is on Lok and so it is out of the way. But sit there they do. So why should I bother ... I have one or two chefs I deal with, other than that? I will probably stop making them myself, it just isn't worth it. Recently on Bria there was Dath Carn meat with High 900 OQ, High 800 Pe and High 700 Flav this went for 30cpu at the highest though i never pay more than 15cpu myself. So I ended up with about a million of this and used it for several runs. Then the meat shifts and the new stuff is High 800 OQ High 900 PE and 496 Flavor. Can you guess what happened? That is right people still want 10-15 cpu for it. It is a joke it simply isn't worth that. I got tired of explaining to people how one stat in the high 900's didn;t make up for crappy flavor and i got tired of defending myself from people who said i was trying to rip them off. So forget it .. . I started palying to have fun. Not spend ever credit I have to buy meat to make 100-200cr profit on a crate of BSN, just to start all over trying to buy meat. It is a vicious circle and I quit.
as has been discussed/verified on the BE boards...bria's economy is messed up...particularly for BE's...nothing that can be said of the other servers can really apply to bria...should have noted that one too.
in any case on bria...its not chefs you need to blame, its your fellow BE's. having a stocked vendor on bria doesn't appear to be a problem...not from all the stuff thats been on the BE boards...its the BE's who got into an undercutting war driving down the price to...17k a crate of BSN's I believe it was. at any rate BE's do have 2 other things they can do...perhaps give those a try...making creatures requires a lot of effort, luck, and skill...base destruction gives you value in the GCW. just as a chef who only makes brandy will get bored and burned out...a BE who only makes chef tissues will suffer the same fate...
oh and in case anyone wants to know the shops that got into that undercutting war were south of coronet...at least I'm pretty sure I remember that one correctly...too lazy to go check atm. so having a stocked vendor on Lok would explain why the crates aren't moving...with cheap (almost always stocked from what I've read) tissues available south of coronet...I can't think of too many reasons why most people would want the extra hassle of having to haul 40+ crates from Lok.
PurpleWarrior
Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:21 am
#12
Ankor wrote:
well, of course your results are gonna be skewed if you're using Dath Insect meat for your BSNs. It's not hard to wait for rancor meat to not suck and buy a 500k units of it at 10 cpu or the like.
Making 85 BSNs doesn't require flora worth more than 5 cpu or meat worth more than 10 cpu. 60x5 + 10x20 = 500 credits. So, selling at 1k each is a low profit (certainly not a margin I'd get excited over) but you're really stratching your case when you say a BE can't make money selling tissues.
Nobody said we "can't make money", what we're saying is it's not worth the effort forthe money we make from Chefs.
I keep a Tailor Tissue vendor stocked daily and make a good living from it. I price reasonably. The Tailors are happy, I'm happy. Unfortunately this doesn't work with Chefs who want us to make minimal profits while they overcharge for anything popular.
It's not just brandy, look at Havla, Bivoli, Canape ... anything that people start to use regularly and the Chefs put the price through the roof.
Liker I said earlier - more and more BEs are either refusing to produce Chef tissues, or making their own Chefs. You want Chef tissues, you better be a BE 
JayceMilam
Wed Jul 07, 2004 4:28 am
#13
You are not telling me anything i do not know by saying BE is screwed on Bria lucky me i picked this server for my main char. But i know I can make money doing other things. I am oneof the top 3 BE's on the server and one of those 3 just quit. But the idiots who sold chef supplements for under cost ruined it for everyone. But like I said I am a complete BE i have the skills to make any pet possible, chef and tailor tissues als, too bad this server sucks.
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