Chef Archive
Thread: Request when discussing pricing...
Page 1 of 4
Dsabre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:50 pm
#1
ok, seeing as how pricing discussions are flairing up again...I've noticed that most of the people aren't posting uses, or what type of container they used along with the price, and the rest of the stats.
containers can make a HUGE difference in the price...even at 2cpu, large glasses, and casks are considerably more expensive than small glasses.
small glass: 20 credits worth of gemstone
large glass: 200 credits worth of gemstone
cask: 300 credits in gemstone, 100 credits in chemicals (inert petro, and fiberplast)
so basically per crate:
small glass would add 500 credits to your resource cost
large glass would add 5000 credits to your resource cost
cask would add 10000 credits to your resource cost
the difference in cost just based on resource costs is fairly large between small glass and cask. but add to that having to find a tailor (assuming you don't have tailor 0010 yourself...), and most of the time figuring in 3cpu for their finished trim...
cask would be 11250 credits.
thats with 2 cpu...most resource sellers ask for 3cpu at a minimum so lets look at the crate prices:
small glass: 750 credits
large glass: 7500 credits
cask: 13750 credits
the difference only gets bigger.
this is not including the costs of power for your factory, or maintenance for factory/vendor/house (yes you need all 3 to have a shop), with no optional advertising on the planetary map or on the bazaar.
before anyone else gets concerned about to high of a markup...most BE's use a 4x markup after resource costs...pretty reasonable...but consider this:
resources cost .2 cpu (at most) after costs are figured in...resources sell for 3cpu-20cpu
thats a 15x markup for the 3cpu price...and considerably less time, and skills are used to harvest resources.
most people have no issues with paying 3 cpu for resources...and yet with the 100% profit some people seem to feel is more than enough...they'd only pay .4 cpu for resources.
if you can keep up with demand for undercutting fine...but realize this...you will soon be putting all other chefs on your server in a position where they will quit. meaning you won't have to deal with the chefs that were there for a long time...you'll only be dealing with the newer chefs who seeing your prices as "par" will price under you to get themselves started. for any who doubt this will happen...take a look at architects, medics (stim b's), tailors, etc. all 3 of those stated professions have had to deal with continuous undercutting wars...not something you ever want to have to deal with. as low as you may decide to price....there will always be someone willing to price lower, and thus do to you what you had originally done to others. and inevitably it will come to this "well I just tally up my resources (2cpu for high quality resources), add 10% profit, and put it up for sale"...common for architects.
containers can make a HUGE difference in the price...even at 2cpu, large glasses, and casks are considerably more expensive than small glasses.
small glass: 20 credits worth of gemstone
large glass: 200 credits worth of gemstone
cask: 300 credits in gemstone, 100 credits in chemicals (inert petro, and fiberplast)
so basically per crate:
small glass would add 500 credits to your resource cost
large glass would add 5000 credits to your resource cost
cask would add 10000 credits to your resource cost
the difference in cost just based on resource costs is fairly large between small glass and cask. but add to that having to find a tailor (assuming you don't have tailor 0010 yourself...), and most of the time figuring in 3cpu for their finished trim...
cask would be 11250 credits.
thats with 2 cpu...most resource sellers ask for 3cpu at a minimum so lets look at the crate prices:
small glass: 750 credits
large glass: 7500 credits
cask: 13750 credits
the difference only gets bigger.
this is not including the costs of power for your factory, or maintenance for factory/vendor/house (yes you need all 3 to have a shop), with no optional advertising on the planetary map or on the bazaar.
before anyone else gets concerned about to high of a markup...most BE's use a 4x markup after resource costs...pretty reasonable...but consider this:
resources cost .2 cpu (at most) after costs are figured in...resources sell for 3cpu-20cpu
thats a 15x markup for the 3cpu price...and considerably less time, and skills are used to harvest resources.
most people have no issues with paying 3 cpu for resources...and yet with the 100% profit some people seem to feel is more than enough...they'd only pay .4 cpu for resources.
if you can keep up with demand for undercutting fine...but realize this...you will soon be putting all other chefs on your server in a position where they will quit. meaning you won't have to deal with the chefs that were there for a long time...you'll only be dealing with the newer chefs who seeing your prices as "par" will price under you to get themselves started. for any who doubt this will happen...take a look at architects, medics (stim b's), tailors, etc. all 3 of those stated professions have had to deal with continuous undercutting wars...not something you ever want to have to deal with. as low as you may decide to price....there will always be someone willing to price lower, and thus do to you what you had originally done to others. and inevitably it will come to this "well I just tally up my resources (2cpu for high quality resources), add 10% profit, and put it up for sale"...common for architects.
Numen
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:21 pm
#2
Saitek wrote:
So basically, whether or not I can produce something for less is irrelevant, and I should markup everything for the sake of everyone else? Regardless of the fact I make a healthy profit?
That's ridiculous. More importantly its anti-competitive and is "Price Fixing". This is a virtual free-market. The goal is to have the competitive advantage, whether through cost, quality, service, delivery or flexibility.
If you don't want to compete with other people, than why are you a crafter?
Instead of complaining about other people's choosen pricing, how about you seek out methods to reduce your own costs.
What other chefs are able to accomplish in this game as far as reducing costs is not unique and it's a replicable cost advantage strategy.
The biggest cost to any crafter is time. Anyone can put a cheap price on their own time. Someone that plays for 12+ hours a day probably values their time less because they can do more in that time. Someone that only has 1-2 hours at most is pressed for time to get things done. They have to sacrifice other things to stock a vendor.
The only way to reduce that cost is to say to yourself "my time is worth less that I think".
The only costs are resources and maintenance. Anyone could produce almost all foods for dirt cheap and make 100c off of each crate(under 5k crates of BE casked brandy are possible if you harvest all the materials yourself and are a BE and Chef). Now does anyone value their time that low?
If I am driven out of business because someone things their time is worthless the only people that get hurt in the long run are the consumers. There is no way for a few people to supply an entire galaxy. You can get all the business you want, your still going to run out sooner or later(or burn out trying). That is why I'm not worried about undercutters. If they want to offer their services for dirt cheap go ahead. IMO your just selling yourself short. There will always be room for people with higher prices. They might not sell as much, but they aren't busting their asses with 10+ factory runs a day.
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:30 pm
#3
By harving your own gemstones (70 cents per unit) and buying trim at 100 per item, i can get the cask cost per crate down to 5100 - almost half of waht you say.
Basically, maybe the issue isn't the selling price, but rather the lack of work we are doing to reduce our overhead. 
Iplyvi
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:37 pm
#4
Comparing a 12-hour a day player to a 1-2 hour a day player is misleading. Both can have 8 factories up and running. Both can make 8 schematics in a short period of time. Both can place them on the factories and start them up. The factories do the rest of the work.
This is true in both cases. The 1-2 hour player logs off and goes about his day - and comes back tomorrow to 8 factories of made food. The 12-hour player stays in-game and goes plays for many more hours. Then he too comes back TOMORROW to 8 factories of made food.
Or do you think you should charge for your personal time while the factories are running? OK, I'm just teasing on that.
OK, I'm just teasing on that. But really, I have been both types of players. I even take a day off once in a while (shh!! don't tell on me!!) and I keep the same amount of production going either way.
Do I feel I don't value my time??? No way, FAR from it! But my cost of food reflects a very profitiable and yet reasonable return on my time.
Dsabre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:55 pm
#5
Saitek wrote:
So basically, whether or not I can produce something for less is irrelevant, and I should markup everything for the sake of everyone else? Regardless of the fact I make a healthy profit?
That's ridiculous. More importantly its anti-competitive and is "Price Fixing". This is a virtual free-market. The goal is to have the competitive advantage, whether through cost, quality, service, delivery or flexibility.
If you don't want to compete with other people, than why are you a crafter?
Instead of complaining about other people's choosen pricing, how about you seek out methods to reduce your own costs.
What other chefs are able to accomplish in this game as far as reducing costs is not unique and it's a replicable cost advantage strategy.
1) Saitek regardless of how much you can make things for (I believe you stated you get crates of BE tissues for 5k)...there aren't more than 1 or 2...maybe not even that many BE's per server that can/will price that low and have a good level of production. so if you have 2 BE's willing to sell at that cost, well thats great for you, but sucks for the other chefs on your server since I sincerely doubt any of the other BE's will sell for even 2x that amount, I've asked many BE's (over 10...and for 1 server...thats probably more than 1/2 of the serious ones)...and 25k is the lowest I've heard of...but the quality just wasn't there.
2) 1 chef cannot supply a server...ever, its been tried (nikii on wanderhome) and you will burn out and quit...I believe she had 2 accounts and several borrowed lots from her PA and still couldn't keep up. being able to compete is 1 thing, but pricing soooooo far below cost of essentially every other chef on your server...well not saying that this is your intention...but thats exactly how architects got to their "sell for 2 cpu + 10%"...even though their resources cost them 5-10 cpu.
3) I don't recall asking everyone to price the same...just high enough so you don't force other chefs to quit because they can't compete...this would prevent the undercutting wars that tailors, and architects got into...and is a big reason why you can't find many good architects or tailors with shops anymore. not everyone can find a BE that will sell for less than 40k a crate of good BSN...I wouldn't even price at 200k+ a crate...but 50-75k a crate for casked BE brandy is just as bad...(and as I emphasized at the begining of my post...its impossible to say if you are undercutting if you don't post the container used/uses...which most people don't).
oh and FYI the goal of any "free" market virtual or otherwise, isn't to gain a competitve edge...its to put your competitors out of business...or to make as much credits as possible...obtaining a competitive edge is simply a means to an end. this was used in architect arguments, and well I don't believe I need to go into how that turned out. if every crafter's goal should be to be the only crafter of their type on the server...well then the devs have done with this patch what all the bugs could not...completely annhilate the friendly/weird/quirky atmosphere of the chef boards...probably the last of the profession boards to have this happen.
Numen
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:05 pm
#6
To be honest I actually didn't calculate the 5k value. I'm actually guessing it is a lot lower than that. I just know that 5k is lower than 10% of the lowest price I have ever seen. Brandy takes under 400 harvested resources per item. Harvest cost is .5cpu I'll assume. 200c per item. 25 items would be 5k. This assume they are harvesting their own meat as well. You can get even lower than that because .5cpu is higher than most people costs if they harvest their own radioactives.
I wasn't trying to compare the times invested to just make the food.
The 12 hour a day player can take 2 hours to make the food and harvest resources and whatever they want. They then have 10 hours to enjoy other aspects of the game.
The 2 hour a day player can use the same time to make food. The problem here is they have no extra time to do anything else. So their choice is to make less food and do other things or make more and only make food.
For the 12 hour person making food could be considered a side job since a majority of their playing is not actually doing anything with chef. For the other person though they are only doing chef. The 12 hour person might not feel like they need to make a big profit. a few k per crate is fine because they have 10 more hours to run missions or harvest meat or whatever.
That was the comparison I was trying to make. In the long run like I said in my first post it doesn't really matter. Resources are a very small cost in food right now. It all comes down to what a person things their time is worth. The 12 hour person has a better chance of valueing their time less than the 2 hour person. It may not happen, but it has a better chance of happing than the 2 hour person making their time worth less than the 12 hour person.
Saitek
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:14 pm
#7
If you think I'm going to burn out and quit you are sadly mistaken, I was the first chef on my server and have actively been a chef since then. The trick to not burning out, is loving what you do, and I love it and have the best time playing the game.
Also I never said I intended on stocking the entire server, your are an idiot if you think you can do that.
Whether or not other chefs can compete is not any of my concern. That's your business, your game and your $15 a month to decide what you are going to do with your game time, same as it is my $15 a month to choose to do what I do.
You automatically assume that people price in that manner to put other people out of business, personally I don't really care about other poeple's business. I price to satisfy my own production needs, my personal needs, and my ethical needs (which includes pricing in correlation to my production costs), anything past than I am not interested in.
You also automatically assume that because other chefs are your competition that some sort of malicious nature should exist between them, which is also very false. I have regular communication with several chefs on my server with no ill will or intentions between any of us.
If my sole intention is to put others out of business then why would I sell them MY resources for 2:1 or give them away for free in order to assist them? Why would I give away MY skill tapes, or spending millions to help others attain them? If malicious intent is the only reason you would price low, then why would I train chefs around every corner? I can tell you for sure it's not for AP, I maxed out on the many months ago. Why would I direct some of my excess orders to them? Why would I answer questions (mainly the same repetitive questions) over and over again, if all my intent was to put them out of business? Why would I give away resource WP's that I spent hours looking for? Why would I help others located BE's or Tailors? Why would I give them tips and tricks to produce better food? I am currently the mayor of a large city, why would I allow other chefs to place tents and sell goods no more than 100meters for my own vendor? I gain nothing from any of it, but do so, because my intentions on pricing have absolutely nothing to do with the idea of "putting them out of business".
You feel this way because you take competition as a threat to you, when you should be taking it as just another dynamic aspect of this game. It's a challenge, and instead of becoming negative about it you should work with it. The only thing that will put you out of business in this game is yourself.
Also I never said I intended on stocking the entire server, your are an idiot if you think you can do that.
Whether or not other chefs can compete is not any of my concern. That's your business, your game and your $15 a month to decide what you are going to do with your game time, same as it is my $15 a month to choose to do what I do.
You automatically assume that people price in that manner to put other people out of business, personally I don't really care about other poeple's business. I price to satisfy my own production needs, my personal needs, and my ethical needs (which includes pricing in correlation to my production costs), anything past than I am not interested in.
You also automatically assume that because other chefs are your competition that some sort of malicious nature should exist between them, which is also very false. I have regular communication with several chefs on my server with no ill will or intentions between any of us.
If my sole intention is to put others out of business then why would I sell them MY resources for 2:1 or give them away for free in order to assist them? Why would I give away MY skill tapes, or spending millions to help others attain them? If malicious intent is the only reason you would price low, then why would I train chefs around every corner? I can tell you for sure it's not for AP, I maxed out on the many months ago. Why would I direct some of my excess orders to them? Why would I answer questions (mainly the same repetitive questions) over and over again, if all my intent was to put them out of business? Why would I give away resource WP's that I spent hours looking for? Why would I help others located BE's or Tailors? Why would I give them tips and tricks to produce better food? I am currently the mayor of a large city, why would I allow other chefs to place tents and sell goods no more than 100meters for my own vendor? I gain nothing from any of it, but do so, because my intentions on pricing have absolutely nothing to do with the idea of "putting them out of business".
You feel this way because you take competition as a threat to you, when you should be taking it as just another dynamic aspect of this game. It's a challenge, and instead of becoming negative about it you should work with it. The only thing that will put you out of business in this game is yourself.
Message Edited by Saitek on 03-23-2004 05:15 PM
Dsabre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:22 pm
#8
Iplyvi wrote:By harving your own gemstones (70 cents per unit) and buying trim at 100 per item, i can get the cask cost per crate down to 5100 - almost half of waht you say.
Basically, maybe the issue isn't the selling price, but rather the lack of work we are doing to reduce our overhead.
Iplyvi
its actually .2cpu...some architect calculated it a while back...can't remember who/when/in what post...
but as for harvesting your own gemstone...your likely to miss harvesting a good spawn of an organic while harvesting that gemstone yourself...
1 lot (minimum for shop)
3 lots factory (for a good level of production)
leaves 6 potentially for harvesters (note: you can't have a cantina...or a lot of storage space)
1 BER13 harvester on a 80% spot will bring up about 13k a day in resources (I think)...
so if you make 40 crates of casked drinks a week...that comes out to 2 harvesters on a gemstone spot.
4 lots left.
a good spawn of organic comes up...4 lots of BER 13 harvesters on that spot for the whole spawn duration...gets you maybe 500k of it (really depends on how lucky you get with surveying, and how much time your willing to spend).
not entirely too bad, but you can't have a cantina...storage space sucks, so no being a packrat. having a PA that will do most of it for free is great, but not everyone is so lucky.
as for meat...with 1 good set of kinetic ubese (120k), a scythe (300k), and buffs (180k 30 full sets at 6k a set)...a hunter could get well over 1 million units of meat. and still have some usage on the scythe and armor. so for 600k you can get 1 mil units of meat...but wait it gets better, grab a big group and grab enraged rancor missions on dath...you can easily make 10 mil in credits running those missions.
there are a lot of ways to reduce costs...but key thing is...this is a GAME. its supposed to be fun, not just for you, but for everyone. I know of, and talk to several other chefs, I've helped 2 or 3 get started, share resource info with 1, and in general feel that as a community in the game, caring about how the other chefs are doing is far more beneficial to me, than seeking to reduce my price/costs. probably the only other community that shares this is the WS community...ask the major WS's on your server how often they talk with each other/share info/work together...they're having a lot of fun, and not being forced to spend all their time making weapons...most are heavily involved in the GCW as combatants.
yeah yeah, not taking into account having 2 accounts, or lot trades...but as it has been proven by several malls going "poof" and SOE not reimbursing anyone for anything in it...lot trades are a very very risky thing to do, especially given the rate at which people seem to be quitting as of late.
Dsabre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:24 pm
#9
well Saitek thanks for turning this thread into something it wasn't intended to be...my original intent was to offer more things to consider when discussing pricing...and thats it. I'm going to guess that we both took some things the wrong way...and I personally will not just let something I feel to be a personal attack on me slide without saying something in return...especially when I was just making broad generalizations....very broad.
if anyone takes offense to this next part of my post...my apologies in advance:
ever notice how homophobics are quite often gay themselves...more often than anyone may think.
the more people say they "hate" something, or accuse other of doing...more often than not...they themselves do this a lot...more often than they may think
I'll admit I feel bad about pricing my food/drinks much higher than my costs...but others with higher costs than me might feel I'm undercutting them...but not by all that much (within 50k a crate from some of the higher end prices).
a lot of it comes down to the economy on your server...I've heard bria's economy is probably the most inflated...could be wrong tho.
I'd rather have competition over who makes the best stuff...as opposed to who makes the cheapest stuff. leaving the market for the lower end stuff open to the newer chefs.
I'm going to say a few final things about your comments Saitek...and thats it...
if you took my original post personally...there must be some truth to it...and you must believe it to some extent to respond the way you did.
do not accuse others of assuming things they shouldn't...when you do the same thing, probably even worse. there is a difference between broad generalizations (no use of the word you, or names) in responses, references to what others have tried, and direct personal responses...
a free market is great IRL...because there are consequences for certain actions...a lack of "free money" (mission terminals are essentially free money)...amongst other things...while a free market isn't very good in a virtual economy for the opposite reasons...I believe the kind of market you want is more of a communal market (share the wealth, no emphasis on skilled labor, etc).
ok now that thats over with...seriously Saitek...go ask the architects how their "undercutting" wars started...it wasn't out of malicious intent, nor was it out of a desire to put all other architects out of business...but nonetheless this was more or less the effect it had. yeah yeah chef is different because its a consumable...but the potential for the same thing to happen is still there (try asking docs why so few of them make/sell stim b's anymore). for the most part they used the same arguments you did "I can do what I want with my $15 a month I paid for..." etc. many of them shared resources/tapes/resource wp's with each other as well...still didn't stop what happened.
the only way they managed to overcome the hostility that emerged from this was to come up with a "price fixing" system....as have many other professions (smuggler, doc, etc.). the cpu pricing system will only cause conflict...its a proven fact. and every profession but chef has had to deal with the undercutting wars that resulted from the cpu pricing schema. I guess now its chef's turn.
if anyone takes offense to this next part of my post...my apologies in advance:
ever notice how homophobics are quite often gay themselves...more often than anyone may think.
the more people say they "hate" something, or accuse other of doing...more often than not...they themselves do this a lot...more often than they may think
I'll admit I feel bad about pricing my food/drinks much higher than my costs...but others with higher costs than me might feel I'm undercutting them...but not by all that much (within 50k a crate from some of the higher end prices).
a lot of it comes down to the economy on your server...I've heard bria's economy is probably the most inflated...could be wrong tho.
I'd rather have competition over who makes the best stuff...as opposed to who makes the cheapest stuff. leaving the market for the lower end stuff open to the newer chefs.
I'm going to say a few final things about your comments Saitek...and thats it...
if you took my original post personally...there must be some truth to it...and you must believe it to some extent to respond the way you did.
do not accuse others of assuming things they shouldn't...when you do the same thing, probably even worse. there is a difference between broad generalizations (no use of the word you, or names) in responses, references to what others have tried, and direct personal responses...
a free market is great IRL...because there are consequences for certain actions...a lack of "free money" (mission terminals are essentially free money)...amongst other things...while a free market isn't very good in a virtual economy for the opposite reasons...I believe the kind of market you want is more of a communal market (share the wealth, no emphasis on skilled labor, etc).
ok now that thats over with...seriously Saitek...go ask the architects how their "undercutting" wars started...it wasn't out of malicious intent, nor was it out of a desire to put all other architects out of business...but nonetheless this was more or less the effect it had. yeah yeah chef is different because its a consumable...but the potential for the same thing to happen is still there (try asking docs why so few of them make/sell stim b's anymore). for the most part they used the same arguments you did "I can do what I want with my $15 a month I paid for..." etc. many of them shared resources/tapes/resource wp's with each other as well...still didn't stop what happened.
the only way they managed to overcome the hostility that emerged from this was to come up with a "price fixing" system....as have many other professions (smuggler, doc, etc.). the cpu pricing system will only cause conflict...its a proven fact. and every profession but chef has had to deal with the undercutting wars that resulted from the cpu pricing schema. I guess now its chef's turn.
Killtacular
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:08 pm
#10
"Whether or not other chefs can compete is not any of my concern. That's your business, your game and your $15 a month to decide what you are going to do with your game time, same as it is my $15 a month to choose to do what I do."
And that, after all, is the bottom line.
Dsabre, I know your intention wasn't to illicit that kinda response from Saitek, but really...what did you expect? This businessyou are essentially calling "undercutting" is practiced by real people who read these boards...did you think they were just going to sit quietly and not defend their stance? Especially when this subject is brought up twice a week?
I for one can fully relate to Saitek's position, but I'll be honest, I am more of an a$$ about it. I've said it tons of times before, but here it is again....play your game, mind your business, and don't worry about the "community"....it will still be there when you get back.
What makes you think herintention ISN'T to put you andevery Chef on you server out of business? And if it is, are you going to try to deny her that?
I find it very difficult to believe that anyone whowould suggest what your original post suggests is doing it for the sake of the community. Quite ironic that the plan for the utopian Chef community includes a nice tidy profit margin.
The concernI keep seeing rehashed over and over is how undercutters are gonna drive everyone to quit Chef (omg!). Sorry, but I just don't really see that happening. Last I checked, we had about 5x as many practicing Chefs as we did 2 months ago....why again do you think they are all just gonna quit?
Cyene
Syke
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:49 pm
#11
I have to admit, it was fun to read this whole thread. Reminds me the reasons I got out of the retail business years ago.
You see...all the things that I read in this thread I have experienced in the real worldpersonally. On one hand, you want to do right by your customers and treat them well...Istill have 80ish regular buyers that have been with me since last summer and there's still over 1000 individual buyers per month buying my food, drinks, stims, medpacks, and more. On the other hand, we also have to do what is right for our virtual business -- I don't just pay a rate for the product, I take care of my suppliers like they are family (in some cases they are). You can run a business like a cutthroat enterprise ala Wal-Mart, Home Depot, etc or you can run a more caring, customer/employee/supplier focused business thatputs equal value on profits and relationships. For me, I've always found that caring about people (even in a virtual world) has better results than anything else.
To quote someone from a completely different forum,do what you want, I don't care. What you do won't impact me unless you specifically conspire against me, whichis low of course, but has happened a few times in recent months.
and what I really want to know is how the hell did the word asses make it through the filter? ROFL!!!
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:09 pm
#12
Dsabre,
Yeah, I like your thoughts here. The differences are minor, like I can't get my harv cost down below .6 so can't confer on the .2cpu you mention.
Your comments on helping each other as the WS's do is dead on. I am one of 2 chefs in our guild. And it is a wonderful thing to help each other. For every resource he helps me acquire, there are wp's I can give him. Or we can place harvs together and take turns clearing them. Or I can harv the gems while he gets the flora etc. Another beneifit is the clout you have when you group together. Want a good price on trim? Let the tailor know you have a group of several chefs that pretty much can guarantee they will sell trim as soon as each factory run is done. Knowing they have steady income sometimes gets them to lower the price. Then you can also run components and share them for smaller runs. Or all share facotries - which like you mention migth be a little tricky with the 'poof' factor there.
As for the fun - I again embrace your thought!! Why are you the first person to comment on the fun factor?? I am totally having fun with this and what may seem offensive to others is really just my passion showing through for my ideals. I have a lot of fun doing this. My customers see this! There has been no pressure on me to "cook cook cook". I take days off, I go out hunting with friends. I put enough power and maint on everything to just be 'gone' for a few days. I have had no complaints. If I don't have something, my customers will ask about it. They seem fine with getting an email when that food is back in stock.
Finally I do agree that there is a little 'luck' involved. LIke you mention, having a guild/PA that is supportive is HUGE. NOt only for storage, but several guildies return their meat and milk to our chefs. In return, we can offer them food at cost. And getting the free creature food either makes you more profitable OR you can lower your prices that much more.
So yeah, we may handle our lots differently or approach the cpu calcualtion differently, but we are both saying it should be FUN, we should be helpful and we can benefit by being in a great support group/PA.
Iplyvi
Dsabre
Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:15 pm
#13
here's a question for ya Cyene...if we all minded our own buisiness...why play a MMORPG?
as for Saitek wanting to put all the other chefs out of buisiness...ummm read her posts, I believe she specifically states that this is not her intent.
pricing schemes are very tricky, no doubts there...the whole CPU pricing scheme can be problematic (people often don't understand why an inferior product costs just as much as a superior one). pricing based on charges is also problematic...food uses are in general too low to have a reasonable price per charge...but drink uses can be too high to do this as well.
wanting everyone to simply let you do whatever you want because you paid your monthly fee isn't a very good argument to ever be using it....griefers all use this argument...and while not everyone who uses this argument is a griefer...all griefers use this argument...so there may be some that will make that connection (and just to make this clear, I'm not in any way calling/suggesting that either Cyene, or Saitek is a griefer).
perhaps when posting about pricing, the following info should be given...to prevent unnecessary hostility:
1) stats on product (including uses)
2) container used (for drinks only, comparing small glass to cask is pointless)
3) BE or non BE
4) what your customer base is (friends, PA, general population)
5) do you get anything for free, or close to it (schems, resources, lots, etc.)
6) can you keep a vendor stocked at that price
this is my last attempt to restore the intent of this thread...I hope.
as for Saitek wanting to put all the other chefs out of buisiness...ummm read her posts, I believe she specifically states that this is not her intent.
pricing schemes are very tricky, no doubts there...the whole CPU pricing scheme can be problematic (people often don't understand why an inferior product costs just as much as a superior one). pricing based on charges is also problematic...food uses are in general too low to have a reasonable price per charge...but drink uses can be too high to do this as well.
wanting everyone to simply let you do whatever you want because you paid your monthly fee isn't a very good argument to ever be using it....griefers all use this argument...and while not everyone who uses this argument is a griefer...all griefers use this argument...so there may be some that will make that connection (and just to make this clear, I'm not in any way calling/suggesting that either Cyene, or Saitek is a griefer).
perhaps when posting about pricing, the following info should be given...to prevent unnecessary hostility:
1) stats on product (including uses)
2) container used (for drinks only, comparing small glass to cask is pointless)
3) BE or non BE
4) what your customer base is (friends, PA, general population)
5) do you get anything for free, or close to it (schems, resources, lots, etc.)
6) can you keep a vendor stocked at that price
this is my last attempt to restore the intent of this thread...I hope.
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