Carbineer Archive

so much negativity on this forum. while this list will be considerably shorter than the list that was put to gether of reasons ''why we suck'' (see thread of that name), it is still nice to take a look and remember that we do have some things going for us...

1) ap2 weapon - only 1 other profession has ap2 (or better) and that's rifleman

2) fullautoarea2 - it's a beast. it does great aoe damage, stuns and blinds (dizzy borked go fig)

3) crippleshot - dynamite in pvp

4) posture changes innate to bleeds - a nice addition i think. now if only the aoe part worked..

5) knockdown bug - yes, it's a bug, but it's still something in our favor if only for the time being

/rant on

now, sure bounty hunter has more speed and better accuracy (and less broken specials) than carbine. guess what, that's also the same for pistoleer too. i don't really know how they rationalize having 1 profession better at carbine and pistolwith 1/3 the carbine/pistol practice as a master carbineer/gunfighter (bounty pistol/carbine specialization 4 require roughly 1.3 million pistol/carbine xp, while master carbineer/gunfighter require over 3 million)... but the simple truth is that they somehow have. thems the breaks. as they say, ''the grass is always greener on the other side''...

there are things that work and things that don't work with every class. some classes are better off than others. some are worse off. will carbine issues be addressed? probably eventually. will carbine become 100% working? not on your life. the nature of mmos is that when one thing is fixed, another thing breaks. and even if/when the current issues are addressed/solved, there will be in their place new issues, which will eventually be compiled on another host of posts entitled ''why we suck'' and the like.

so cheer up people. if you dislike carbineer so much, then excersize your right to ''surrender skill''. if you feel compelled to do carbine to satisfy some mystical relic, then you are going to surrender anyway, so why bother filling the boards with such negativity?

/rant off

auspeks,

dont forget that we dont have a solid dizzy shot...so using chargeshot will get us maybe one other shot on a knocked down opponent (if your shot doesnt miss, which seems to happen to me and im a master). in which case your opponent gets up and has his way with you. although with no timer on it, i'd say that makes up for not having a dizzy shot almost.

as for the scattershot combo you listed....the outcome would be your opponent getting up with MAYBE 200 damage to each pool and very pissed off....

in my opinion, carbineers are moderately strong right now but could and should be fixed. im also a master medic and can solo almost any creature in the game using some specials and /healdamage. and as for pvp, if you can get your initial chargeshot to work and get a good crippleshot in, you can usually do pretty good. and dont forget that as carbineers we should get a better gun than a BH who does not have at least novice carbine

While it is good to keep a positive attitude, threads like this will only encourage the devs to continue to ignore the glaring problems with this profession. I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume that this was not the actual intent.

The carbineer is a damage dealing class. It was once a crowd control class but that has largely gone away since the PC/KD changes went into effect. Unfortunately there are a lot of obstacles to the carbineer doing what he needs to do effectively, and because they are bugs and implementation issues they are not ok.

They are also not ok just because doctors/BHs/CHs can largely ignore the major problems with the class. Those classes in combination with almost any class will be effective anyway.

Disproportionate HAM costs, and speed mods top the list of problems. The best carbine available is a marksman cert. There are a significantnumber of skills that are just plain broken like chargeshot 2 and legshot 3. The counterattack doesn't (counterattack that is). The dizzy which would make our knockdown potenthas never worked. Etc. etc. There has been too much wrong with this class for too long and shutting up and taking it with a smile is not going to help at all. Assuming that the player voice has more sway than the Ouija board this is the forum for us to voice our legitimate complaints in, and it behooves us all to use it as such.

Today my character finished its shift from artisan to combat. Once i get the last few app xp I'll have Master Carbineer, CH and Marksman. There are a lot of good things about carbs, namely AP2 on the laser rifle. I seriously hate using pistols on the hard mobs that all have medium and heavy armour. Chargeshot1- been hunting holos with a novice TKA. They dizzy andI charge as needed, very fast and easy, shame the force npc spawns on dant have been non existant last few days. Chargeshot despite being obviously broken is probably the single best attack for your group there is. Scattershot2- Despite the display being bugged this shot does very nice damage, also in pvp its great to be able to know you can finish them if they are low in whatever crippling hit but didnt quite finish. Actionshot2's effect of slowing creatures down- probably the best bleed for kiting, before I went combat I basically killed any and all hard mobs with this skill and a little patience. Bonus of our ham costs, I actually provide business for chef's

I like Carbineer because there's more tactics than, say, pistol. Pistol is spam-away, while in Carbineer you have more specialized moves that, used properly, rock. AOE attacks, KD, AOE KD, Stun/Blind/Dizzy, High Damage random pool, Medium damage specific pool, Low damage to all pools...all of these things have uses. None is the single ubermove you can spam to get out of any situation. ex: /scattershot. Spamming this is ineffective, but it's great when you have a non-action pool almost drained. Instead of doing /burstshot and hoping to hit the right pool, do /scattershot for the sure-kill.

Love carbineer, I hate it for a long time due to the ham cost, but with BH carbine 3 and 3/0/0/2 at moment, I just ripped into kunga's with scatter 2... firing on it with a normal damage sliced 360 damage laser carbine 3.4second can kill one in about 20 seconds..get enough speed to 1 second the scatter it's soooo powerful.

currently food is bug so I just use 1 boh heaven that keep scatter shot ham cost down at 59, but once the food is fixed, use BOH+ryshcake should push me into 0 ham special.

I just had to reply to this post. I am a master Doc and I WAS a pistoleer. I had heard of all the problems you guys have and I of course know of the problems that the pistoleer class has. So I thought i would try a little carbine out and see what the difference is. I self buff so the problem of killing myself is gone and from what I understand that is a huge problem for the carbine class. I have gone from no carbine to carbines III in about an hour (due to my buffs and backup pistol skills). At this point I have noticed one thing.......I can do more damage with you carbine III (marksman) than with my pistoleer 2 2 2 2. I cant wait until I get up to the carbineer. Hey you guys might have some problems I'll give you that, but when you compare it to the pistoleer class you guys flat out rock. The carbine with doc mix is great.

Hehe give it time man! Being only in the Marksman tree you haven't even begun to experience the problems that the rest of us have but you will! Granted you do have an advantage with buffing and uber healsso like you said, one problem that we all have you won't. I was a pistoleer too and came back to carbines because the damage and fun factor was higher in carbines but the problems are most definately there and are annoying as hell trust me.

1). Not true. Commandos get all the way up to AP 3 , granted those are consumables though, but still. Rocket launchers and the like are AP 3 I believe. As well many of the melee professions get AP 2 weapons such as pikeman and swordsman, unless you were simply reffering to ranged.

2). AoE damage is only useful in very limited situations and generally in PvE. Stun has not been proven to do jack, and blind is useful, but the chances of getting a blind seem low/unpredicable, so its not a reliable method of blinding something, just a nice chance occurance.

3). Crippleshot is nice, but its also a very very slow attack. I believe its been proven unless you are a BH/Carbineer Burst Shot 1 is actually better DPS because its twice as fast or so.

4). Yeah this is nice, but once again bleeds are the domain of PvE, not many people waste time slapping a 60 damage bleed on someone when PvP doesnt tend to last long enough for bleeds to actually..bleed. I also think this is a bug with AS 1 & 2 - but still nice.

5). Another bug. It will get fixed eventually I'm sure, and we will be stuck with a retardo animation and a move that doesnt work often. At least the HAM was lowered a ton.

There is a difference between pistoleer and carbineer for example. True, I know many of their specials do not work - just likemost of ours dont. But they do not have severe problems like our HAM costs. I've played a pistoleer. It's absurd how easy it is compared to carbineer, just because you can actually USE your specials. The HAM bug is a *crippling* bug that has been ignored since BETA. Sure, we've managed, through various means such as picking up professions that counter the absurd HAM costs, but that doesnt make it right.

We rant because we are paying customers, and deserve to be fixed. People that always seem so compliant and tell please to "relax and stop complaining" need to realize that you are paying for a product/service. I highly doubt you would pay for poor service/products in other realms of your life, it's odd that MMORPGS get such leniancy.

I'll disagree if people hate carbineer so much, they should just surrender their skills and do something else. I enjoy carbineer,I just find it apalling at their lack of concern for such bugs that plague our profession and most others. They can say they are working on it, or fixes will come soon, but its been 4 months and almost nothing has happened. It's a little to late for most players to hear " Hold on we are fixing it" when they have been sitting around for 4 months waiting.

i am a BH...and i have been seriously considering dropping BH for carbineer/doctor (my brother is master doctor, and i talked him into carbineer instead of TKA--he is telling me stories every day about all the things he is killing, and laughing about his specials).

this post is funny to me.

BH has better speed and accuracy mods than Carbineer--though i think 10 accuracy and 5-10 speed come from the Master Marksman box, which carbineers *choose* not to get, more often than not. bottom line, our speed/acc mods *are* better. i couldn't even try to deny that.

are BH specials better than Carbineer specials? well...being a BH, i have to acknowledge that /knockdownfire is very effective a lot of the time. the KD isn't a guarantee, and the dizzy isn't, either...but it still works often enough that i have to admit it's a pretty potent shot.

/underhandshot? useless. it's basically /chargeshot1 w/o the animation, with extra ham cost, slightly higher dmg. (used to do more dmg, but they made /underhandshot do less and /confusionshot do more, which makes a lot of sense given that /conf is lvl 4 shot, /und is lvl 1).

/confusionshot is also effective. it's not broken, it's not too uber, it's solid damage, and usually sticks a state.

those are our 3 special moves. 1 is useless. 2 are pretty potent.

now...

/cripplingshot...WOW. there are lots of reasons for BH Carbine 4 to dabble in Carbineer...this shot is one of those reasons. sure, a master carbineer can't always spam it at 1/second. but let's be serious...you don't have to. this shot is probably best used as a stand-out, anyways. the ham cost doesn't sound spam-friendly, anyways.

/burstshot heeeelllllooooo...another high damage shot, lower ham cost, and capable of 1/sec spamming. not bad.

/chargeshot1 no timer? who cares about low dmg. /chargeshot1 /cripplingshot /cripplingshot...repeat. don't act like you don't do it--LOL. that's a doozy. if you're doing double damage to a kd'd target, those cripplingshots should be renamed /automaticdeath

/scattershot2--a lot of you don't like it, but being able to rip into all 3 pools is a *huge* asset when used right. people whine about /eyeshot...and it doesn't target health or action. i don't know the specifics of this shot, but i have heard that the dmg mod is similar to /cripplingshot, except that the dmg divides between all 3 pools. all i have to say about that is "holy crap". have any of you ever used /chargeshot1 /scattershot2 /scattershot2 in PvP? just curious...i would *love* to hear how that went.

for that matter, /fullautosingle2...i have the novice carbine box, and with my carbine, i hit this for ridiculous amounts of damage--more than i can do with any of my BH carbine moves. i am using a 3.1, 47-389 laser carbine...i know more than a few of you have better carbines than me.

and, of course, you have some area shots.../fullautoarea2...nice.

anyways.../wildshot i never hear about, so i'll assume it's not so great...but looking at the big picture, carbineers have a pretty broad range of tools to choose from.

it seems to me the thing you like to point out is that BH can stack states better. /confusionshot works nicely for that, and /knockdownfire is a very nice tool for kd'ing...but our capabilities are very narrow with the Carbine, which is exactly as it should be.

Carbineers, on the other hand, have a much broader range of capabilities than we do--which, again, is how it should be.

Carbineer is not only balanced, it's actually an extremely attractive profession. if i didn't love the concept of BH so much, i'd already be a Carbineer/Doctor right now...i've been banking carbine and medic xps just in case i decide to make that switch, in fact...and i would never consider it if the carbineer profession weren't so potent.

i would also like to say that i think the Carbineer acc and speed mods could each use +10 over what they have...possibly +15 in acc.

Bustshot, crippleshot, and every single other carbineer shot other than scattershot and legshot do RANDOM POOL DAMAGE.

Which ammounts to jack **edit** in pvp.

I can sum up your entire post in one sentence...

Carbineer has a much broader array of busted ass **edit** that will never be fvcking fixed.

auspeks - i did not intend to attack the bounty hunter profession. the thread that this thread was in retort to made several comparisons between carbine and bounty hunter, and i was simply trying to say ''that's just the way it is, deal with it''.

someone else said that positive posts encourage the devs to ignore the class? you must be joking. let's assume the carbine developer DOES read this forum regularly (which i believe to be untrue, but anyway...) what makes you think that 1 positive post in a sea of thousands of negative posts is going to completely negate all the complaints and whines in the forum? as if the carb dev will be thinking ''hmm... well, there's 1000 threads in the carbine forum, 907 of them are complaints about the same 6 issues, 92 of them are off topic, and 1 of them is... positive? Oh my, those other 907 threads are worthless, b/c if 1 person thinks something good then the class doesn't need fixing because obviously it works if 1 person likes it''. give me a break.

re: commando and ap2, 3 - you might be right. i was speaking from memory, and i thought i remembered a commando thread complaining about the lack of ap. however, it was awhile ago that i was reading the commando forums, so i could definitely be wrong on that.

burstshot does not have a higher dps. it was calculated in a post about a week ago (link following) that burst1 has less than 1 dps less than crippleshot (which is not alot, but crip still wins out). the crucial statistic here is damage per ham per second, where burst clearly wins out. but i was speaking just from a damage point of view. here's the thread where our specials are analysed:

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=carabineer&message.id=6280

stun has been shown to lower ranged defense. i can't seem to find the thread that discusses this, so i can't say that it's true or untrue, but at the least i can say that is what many believe to be true. still, without having a backup to this claim, take it with a grain of salt. i just wanted to let you know where i was coming from.

Spinuck--thank you for the tone of your response, and thank you for using a specific number example for dmg of /chargeshot1 and /scattershot2 combo. i don't know much about /scattershot2, but it sounds like i overestimated that one.

Drace...are you trying to tell me you honestly think /cripplingshot and /burstshot2 are useless in PvP because they are random pool shots? i mean...are you trying to say that you really believe that?

if that is the case, the only moves used in PvP that work are /torsoshot, /eyeshot, /headshot3, /mindshot2, /actionshot2, /legshot3, /bodyshot3, and /healthshot2...oh, wait...and /eyeshot, of course...which will soon be moved to Master BH, and which most BH never use, anyways.

*most* PvP is won with random pool shots.

/stoppingshot is random pool. /lastditch is random pool...for that matter, MOST shots are random pool. LLC is random...i mean...

useless?

whatever.

if you can't find a way to 'use' /cripplingshot in PvP, you are going to have a very hard time winning, no matter what you have or are given.