Carbineer Archive
Thread: The difference between Carbineers and carbine users:
The idea that I have topost this makes me sigh with frustration. Apparently though, we have carbine users in our forums masquerading as Carbineers. These people make it seem as though Carbineer is an unbroken profession. We have access to a few well-knownbandages that mask the problems of the class, but these do not mean that Carbineers are not broken. They are:
- Doctor buffs
-food
-Entertainer buffs
-spice (neutron pixie, muon gold, etc.)
These are necessary to make our class work effectively. Without them, we incappacitate ourselves with our outrageous HAM costs.When these HAM costs are combined withthe damage we do, and the broken status of literally half of our specials, as wellas a host of other problems,they are unreasonable. These problems have been ongoing for quite some time. Most have yet to be addressed.
A further and more pressing problem in my opinionis the onset of people who combine some well-known secondary professions with Carbineer.These also bandage the problems, and these people proceed to come on the Carbineer forum and claim that the Carbineer class is not broken. This underscores the Carbineer class's desperate need for a fix, and sets back all of us that legitemately want and deserve the fixes promised to the Carbineer class by the devs. They are:
-Doctor
-Bounty Hunter, carbine tree
-Combat Medic
-Creature Handler
These classes are a good addition to any combat template. However, a Carbineer without these professions is similarily nearly unusable. The Bounty carbine tree adds all the skills and mods to the Carbineer class that should already be there. The Doctor is able to apply the much-needed buffs to the Carbineer class, tokeep thefiring of the guns from turning into an example of honorable suicide. The Combat medic is able to apply the poisons and diseases that eat away at the action pools of the target, making the Carbineer's bleed more effective. The Creature Handler gives the Carbineer the much-needed time to heal in-between shots to deal with the HAM costs. What does this mean if you are a Carbineer paired with a non-bandage class like Ranger orSquad Leader? Lots of time in the cloning center. A Pistoleer or Rifleman in the same combination? Still very effective.
The onslaught of combat dabblers that fit the above profile will have you believe that the Carbineer class is fine. Their posts generally boil down to "All you need is (insert bandage here)". The problem is, when you take other ranged classes, these bandages are not NECESSARY. Useful of course, but not necessary. If the HAM costs were made as high as they are for someone dabbling in BH carbine (Ypi & Ecaterina,I have to call out names here), but made lower for anon-dabbling Carbineer, the HAM costs would make more sense. The increase in damage and accuracy could call for the increase in HAM to its current levels.That is not the case. If a person was a Doctor before touching Carbineer and claiming that the Carbineer class is unbroken, you are unaware of the severe handicaps that those of us lacking the class must deal with. Combat Medics, poisons and disease ignore Armor Ratings (AR) completely. Making those bleeds hit through armor and doing hard damage in addition to the bleeds inherent to the Carbineer class makes you unaware of how hard it is to a non-CM. Creature Handlers...............get creatures. Need I say more?
Using a carbine does not make one a Carbineer. I ask any of you in the above category to please stop posting in the Carbineer forum saying that we don't need fixes. That's not the case. YOU don't need fixes. The rest of us want balance, and the devs agree with our requests. Carbineers already know how to cope with the problems of the class. Coping however, is not fixing. It isn't asking much to be on level with our other ranged bretheren, and I'm not speaking of a Pistoleer / Smuggler, or a Pistoleer / BH. Those combinations should rightfully win a battle against a Carbineer without similar dabbling. This only addresses Carbineer as it concerns a similarly balanced class, like a Carbineer / TKA vs a Pistoleer / TKA.
This is not a flame post. Merely the facts.
Nice load of boulechite, my dear Eryn.
What makes you think this forum is reserved to some players, and should be forbiden to others ?
Crawl back under your stone, we don't need fanaticalpeople like you, declaring some character profiles are not welcomed to post here, and are not "true" carbineers.
You might consider reading the game manual again, cross training is effectively encouraged, and a master carbineer has more thana hundred points leftover to master something else, be it doctor, bounty hunter, creature handler !
You have every right to contradict what this kind of player posts if you do not agree with them, as you bothbenefit off the same freedom of speech.
Have a nice day.
Aristide Fenouillard, Master doctor/4402 carbineer
No, he's right. If you're not a carbineer alone, then your views will be skewed and will not help us fix the shards of a profession we have. Of course, post here. But, when someone posts hard data and opinions of how bad a carbineer is w/o crutch professions, don't come into that post and say that the data is wrong or that you think carbineer rules.
Carbineer does rule with Doc buffs. Period. But so does Pistoleer, and Rifle, and any other combat class. The problem we find is that w/o these crutch professions we aren't left with nearly the stand-alone ability as other combat professions.
So, please stop disagreeing with us until you do it like us. I want to Master Carb, but I also want to Master Armorsmith. I made the choice. But, I want to be able to hold my own in a fight (group or solo). And I should be able to.
Carbines need some of the specials fixed there is no doubt about that (a problem that all clases have so dont feel to important) and unaided yes ham costs will kill you in a few shots but you are missing the point here. Carbines have AP2 and i can not overstate the importance of that in PVE pistols only have AP1, rifles do have AP3 but they have high ham costs to a unhealable pool so theres are not only high but less easily mitigated.
What most of the people are wining for on this forum is for us to have carbine damage and pistol ham costs now that is insanly unblanced the ham costs are how the DEVS balance our higher damage and AP so find a way to deal with it its not hard eat food get a buff ect. Carbines rock im never going back to pistols
I hear ya cloak.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=carabineer&message.id=11760
Tell me again how great being a Carbineer is again!
Sit down son, and learn a lesson - classes are not meant to be ALL powerful. High HAM costs is NOT a mistake by the devs, it's put there to balance the class. High HAM is a great fix for a true CARBINEER, because we understand that to excel we must be devoted to the class, and find the workarounds. High HAM is very workable, and something I'd much rather have than an entire skill tree that does nothing for my class (which is how many other classes were 'balanced out').
Yes the class does have some issues, like why isn't the Elite Carbine truly Elite? Yet we have nothing major, nothing that can't be worked with. You cry like you just got spanked bad by something...I'd say Dancer is probably a better class for you, as it will keep you out of the heat of combat.
BTW, CARBINE COSTS ARE HIGHER FOR BH SPECIALS. So crawl back into your hole please, until you actually get a clue. You seem to want a magic kill button, a class with no flavor. Myself, I'll take my carbine and go abuse some things now, thank you.
Factor in speed, check DPS out.
With a pistol with speeds below 1.5 damage 50-150 or so you'll do more damage than a Carbine with 50-300 damage speed 3.0.
2/2/1/1 Carbineer / Master Marksman.
I am I know..
I still dish out WAY more DPS with a pistol than I do witrh my Carbine, my rule is, Solo = Pistol - Grouped Carbine. I am not giving up os Carbines yet, I love them but they aren't easy!
Fenouillard wrote:
Nice load of boulechite, my dear Eryn.
What makes you think this forum is reserved to some players, and should be forbiden to others ?
Crawl back under your stone, we don't need fanaticalpeople like you, declaring some character profiles are not welcomed to post here, and are not "true" carbineers.
You might consider reading the game manual again, cross training is effectively encouraged, and a master carbineer has more thana hundred points leftover to master something else, be it doctor, bounty hunter, creature handler !
You have every right to contradict what this kind of player posts if you do not agree with them, as you bothbenefit off the same freedom of speech.
Have a nice day.
Aristide Fenouillard, Master doctor/4402 carbineer
This is why I said it wasn't a flame post. What do I get? Oh well, in a clear, concise, non-flame manner:
Aristide, I did not say that people could not post in our forums. Indeed, these forums are for everyone. What I ASKED people to do was, stop posting in the forum and telling Carbineers how unbroken they were because they could just take (insert class here) and they would be okay. I'm not asking you not to post. I'm asking you to not post about the Carbineer class being unbroken. If you're going to post, post about how to make the class manageable in the state that it's in. Post to help the flood of new Carbineers directed here by their holocrons. So on and so forth.Sure enough, it's a Master Doctor responding in a negative way.
Without those bandages, a Carbineer is just not effective. Period. Indeed, cross-class dabbling is encouraged and often necessary. I'm not saying that you shouldn't cross classes.HOWEVER, I should be free enough to take Carbineer and a non-bandage class such as Ranger or Teras Kasi, and be as workable as a Pistoleer or Rifleman with the same template. I'm not. I don't think that the devs had such a narrow-minded view of class dabbling for the Carbineer, since we are less than effective without the bandages stated in my first post. . I don't want the fixes that Carbineers have had coming for the past 5 months or so to be put to the wayside because people have found ways around the devs's bugs. Not fanatical, just the facts, and please don't insult me again.
As Aristide said, you are free to agree or not at your discretion.
Detchi wrote:
cloakanddagger: Sorry, not going to march in goosestep with your narrow view of the class. As a CARBINEER that has both achieved Master and the Investigation Carbine title under BH I know carbines weel. I use them daily to school riflemen and pistoleers in PvP, and nothing starts my day better with a KD/ dizzy/ stun/ bleed state stacked on some l33t flame throwing commando. I have probably custom ordered more carbines than 1/2 this forum combined, and I buy carbines by the crate. Yet because I think the class isn't broken, I'm not a carbineer? I'd say you are WRONG.
Sit down son, and learn a lesson - classes are not meant to be ALL powerful. High HAM costs is NOT a mistake by the devs, it's put there to balance the class. High HAM is a great fix for a true CARBINEER, because we understand that to excel we must be devoted to the class, and find the workarounds. High HAM is very workable, and something I'd much rather have than an entire skill tree that does nothing for my class (which is how many other classes were 'balanced out').
Yes the class does have some issues, like why isn't the Elite Carbine truly Elite? Yet we have nothing major, nothing that can't be worked with. You cry like you just got spanked bad by something...I'd say Dancer is probably a better class for you, as it will keep you out of the heat of combat.
BTW, CARBINE COSTS ARE HIGHER FOR BH SPECIALS. So crawl back into your hole please, until you actually get a clue. You seem to want a magic kill button, a class with no flavor. Myself, I'll take my carbine and go abuse some things now, thank you.
Negative, high HAM costs ARE a mistake...one known and admitted by the Devs...they just havent fixed them yet..the high costs are associated with the carbines themselves,id search for the post but you can do that yourself. As someone who dropped BH carb line to go carbineer/doc i know that BH carb specials cost more, but that you can also spam cripple shot every second AND can dizzy/KD with one shot.There are workarounds for almost everything in the game, the point the original poster was trying to make is that we shouldnt HAVE to use workarounds to be able to use our weapon of choice effectively.
Class dismissed 
Detchi wrote:
cloakanddagger: Sorry, not going to march in goosestep with your narrow view of the class. As a CARBINEER that has both achieved Master and the Investigation Carbine title under BH I know carbines weel. I use them daily to school riflemen and pistoleers in PvP, and nothing starts my day better with a KD/ dizzy/ stun/ bleed state stacked on some l33t flame throwing commando. I have probably custom ordered more carbines than 1/2 this forum combined, and I buy carbines by the crate. Yet because I think the class isn't broken, I'm not a carbineer? I'd say you are WRONG.
Sit down son, and learn a lesson - classes are not meant to be ALL powerful. High HAM costs is NOT a mistake by the devs, it's put there to balance the class. High HAM is a great fix for a true CARBINEER, because we understand that to excel we must be devoted to the class, and find the workarounds. High HAM is very workable, and something I'd much rather have than an entire skill tree that does nothing for my class (which is how many other classes were 'balanced out').
Yes the class does have some issues, like why isn't the Elite Carbine truly Elite? Yet we have nothing major, nothing that can't be worked with. You cry like you just got spanked bad by something...I'd say Dancer is probably a better class for you, as it will keep you out of the heat of combat.
BTW, CARBINE COSTS ARE HIGHER FOR BH SPECIALS. So crawl back into your hole please, until you actually get a clue. You seem to want a magic kill button, a class with no flavor. Myself, I'll take my carbine and go abuse some things now, thank you.
Let's talk about school, son.
I had the EXACT same template, and when I did, I didn't see the problems of the carbine. In fact, I addressed your argument in my first post, when I called out names no less. Detchi, the BH carbine skills make you a killing machine. DROP that and watch what happens. If they HAM costs for you were different than for a non-BH dabbled Carbineer, you'd be dead on. They're not, and what's worse, they're incapacitating to use. If I had an extra 60 points to my accuracy and 50 to my speed then yeah, I wouldn't complain either. I'm not saying thata Master Carbineerdabbling in BH carbine shouldn't be a better with a carbine than a Master Carbineer only. I'm saying that if we want to be effective, there are only a few classes that we can take. If I want to take Carbineer / Sqaud Leader or what not, I should be AS effective as a Pistoleer / Squad Leader as long as I stay in my ranges, no.
And while we're giving lessons, let's talk about brokeness compared to other classes. Other classes have a whole tree that's bugged to hell, correct? With some calculation, you'll see that Carbineers have just as many problems, without being localized all in one tree. Supression fire 2? Why bother, when I have a lower-end move that posture changes AND bleeds? Wildshot 1 and 2? Why just stun when I can stun, blind, and (supposedly) dizzy? Again with a lower end move(Full Auto 2). By the way, stun is broken. Like dizzy is. For us, anyway. TKAs and BHs dizzy just fine. Were you aware of that? Legshot 3? Same damage as Legshot 2, with more HAM cost. Super. Area knockdown? GREAT.........if it knocked stuff down. Only one it knocks down is me. The HAM costs for these gimped specials is insane. They were a mistake by the devs, because the devs agreed with our assesments and claimed that they were going to be changed. AR2? NICE, if they all were AR2. That's just the Laser Carbine though, with a low end damage in the middle ranges of CDEF. Not to mention the Elite Carbine, which you already did. Pistoleer and Rifleman hit the speed cap, no dabbling. Couterattack only dodges.IT DOES NOT COUNTERATTACK. I'm going to stop there. Starting to get a clearer view?
For the absolute last time, I'm not asking for an "I win" button that makes Carbineer ultra powerful.I want to be on par (and this is the important part, flamers) with a Pistoleer or Rifleman with the same template. If a Rifleman / Fencer fights a Carbineer / Fencer, the fight should boil down to class-specific strengths and tactics. That's all. Drop the insults, please. They're really not necessary.
"This is why I said it wasn't a flame post. What do I get? Oh well, in a clear, concise, non-flame manner:"
Yes you did say that your post was not a flame but then you proceded to tell all but the crafter/carbineer(BTW i do fall in this catigory) that they do not belong on this forum and that thereviews are worthless. you can call thatwolf a rabbit but that dont make it so.