Carbineer Archive
Thread: The difference between Carbineers and carbine users:
Ciirybeccaskyr wrote:
"This is why I said it wasn't a flame post. What do I get? Oh well, in a clear, concise, non-flame manner:"
Yes you did say that your post was not a flame but then you proceded to tell all but the crafter/carbineer(BTW i do fall in this catigory) that they do not belong on this forum and that thereviews are worthless. you can call thatwolf a rabbit but that dont make it so.
I must be speaking a different language or something.
THAT IS NOT WHAT I SAID! People can post all day and night in the forum! Just don't post about how UNBROKEN the class is!Ciiry, you should know better than anyone as a crafter / Carbineer. Also, I said nothing aboutanyone's views being worthless.People with the bandages have theirviews SKEWED. They have great input, as I've seen Ypi and Ecaterina no less, posting elsewhere about how to work with the problems of the class. They have great advice, and I welcome it to the forums. However, they claim that CARBINEER is not broken, which just isn't the case. It can be remedied with the bandages, but it's horrible without them. THE BASE CLASS IS BROKEN. ALL OPINIONS ARE WELCOME. ALL.
Sorry, if I give the impression that carbineer isn't broken, It's broken in many ways, speciallike leg shot 3 and charge shot 2, wildshot is useless as well and overcharge shot'sdaze never seems to stick for more than 1 second.
but I want to say I don't know what kind of carbine ham you guys use, the laser carbine I have that's 353 damage I use most of the time, a scatter shot only cost me 60-70 hams to use, and burst shot is even less, so I can definite spam a couple of them, before I need to use Stim b, which heal 350-600 hams. also been a combat class, it's wise if not necessary to get atleast novice medic, which allow you access to stim b and wound treatment B
alot people think it's cool or fun to get master chef and master carbineer and then dabble in some artisan, it's neat but it's not practical at all, it all come down to a player who spend every skills point dedicated to combat more powerful than someone who dabbles, and I would said No way in hell, that's why Dev is planning to move eye shot to master BH so there is very little chance of dabbling in order to get powerful special.
I spend every single of my skills point taking master carbineer, then gotten BH carbine 3. and then just novice medic, I have 0 point left, I know now for sure that, since I devote all my skills to combat, I can beat every single other profession in literally PVE or PVP, there aren'tmany professions out there that can with the right template deal out 4-5k damage a second constantly without missing, and fortunately carbineer is one of them, now if someone said taking just 2 line of carbineer and they expect to deal the same amount of damage or nearly same amount of the damage, I think that would be unbalancing.
also I think anyone who have skills in carbine are carbineer, if forum only restrict to the opinion of pure profession, then a lot players would not be posting on here.
The speed mod on Crippleshot is x4. If you're spamming Crippleshot every second, either you have BH Carbine, or you're firing a .25 or faster carbine.
I think the premise of the main post is correct--you will not have a clear view of this profession's broken bits if you are dabbling in one of the professions that he lists. I used to have the BH carbine tree, but I subsequently gave it up. I'm currently 4-4-3-3 in carbineer, and I am certainly far weaker in combat. Speed is life.
I also get doctor buffs occasionally. The difference is night and day. No worrying about HAM drain. Spamming specials. It's great. On the other hand, I've bee a bit up the pistoleer tree in the past too, and you know what? You can solo the same **edit** as a pistoleer without having buffs. I would consider this to mean that carbineer is underpowered.
It's laughable how people who are BH/Carbineer or Doctor/Carbineer claim that carbineer is just fine. No, it's not fine in comparison to other combat professions. Speed mods are way too low and HAM drains are far too high. Something is wrong when pistoleers have higher effective DPS and negligible HAM costs. I'm not saying we should be better than pistoleers in every way, but we shouldn't be drastically underpowered.
Carbineer is broken?
I thought that we'reSUPPOSED to be able to kill ourselves faster than the enemy!
That being said, I'm gonna go read other similar profession posts to see what they think of their professions.
My two favorite shots in the present world are chargeshot1 and confusionshot... note the second is a BH carbineer one. Since I have no pretense at thinking we'll keep good shots, I'd like to see more fixed before those two are nerfed. You have to admit there are a lot of points (Master Marksman, Master Scout and most of carbineer.. I'm at 3444 now.) invested in making two shots work right. (yes I understand chargeshot1 is a lower level skill but i'm looking at the carbine bonuses from the rest of carbineer to make it work well.)
Keep posting folks
gpunk wrote:
This thread and the complaint in general is about the Carbineer class. It is not about great templates. It is not about the key workarounds to a Plain Jane Carbineer's problems.
Carbineers need help. Carbineer/BHs do not. Carbineer/Doctors do not.
In the end, a carbineer alone should not be as strong as a BH/Carbineer, Carbineer/Doctor, or any other such template. That is comparing someone who has used half of their skill points to someone who has used almost all of them. The complaint is from a CARBINEER'S perspective. A Carbineer vs. a Pistoleer vs a Rifleman, should be on equal ground in terms of chance for a win. Add BH, or Doctor, etc. to one of those and ONLY one and BLAMMO! the equation is tipped in favor of the class spending more of its skill points.
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I took this off another thread. This is not the entire post (which was very good), but in two paragraphs puts the point in the face of the "Carbineers" with the crutches stated earlier. We're not talking aboutcross-classing that makes you uber. We're talking about cross-classingthat doesn't. As things stand, if you want to use the class, you take one of those professions. Nothing else keeps you alive. Carbineers are either one extreme or the other........there's no middle ground. Problem is, there should be.
I'm currently Carbineer 4/4/1/4, and, unfortunately, a Trandoshan. Our max substats suck 450 Quickness, 400 Stamina. Add in a little armor and what's the point of having them high to begin with, everything under 150 doesn't make a difference. My day generally goes like this:
Log on, shoot twice, remember that I can't do squat.
Find a doctor, go kick butt for 2 hours or so before buffs wear off.
No buffs, tear off my arm and throw it at my target when I use a special. Can't do squat.
Eat some food, kick some more butt forup to 10minutes. Then food wears off and I'm full for an hour.
Go search for another doctor.
When I don't have buffs, I can do more damage autofiring a good FWG5 with Marksman Pistol 3 than I can do with a carbine over a fight that lasts longer than 10 seconds. That's stupid. Granted, the FWG5is 77-308, but people just don't want to put good krayt tissue into weapons that take more than 1 per.
My other professionsdo not complement Carbineer. Some Medic skill is almost required for any combat char, and Scout has it's useful qualities. I only keep Master Brawler because /warcry2 can save a group. Plus it inhibits the target from standing for the duration of the warcry if you knock em down. Granted, I can't really use that without doc buffs either but hey, that's a different forum.
I do enjoy the profession, especially the rank 4 titles, but yes, I do agree that this profession can't stand on it's own.
The posts above make me sigh in relief that some of you seem to get it. Thank you for understanding.
To address the repeated and mistaken belief that I said "non-Carbineers shouldn't post here", I'm going to quote myself, and highlight the important section of what I actually said that seems to keep getting skipped over.
Not stop posting period. Not that only Carbineers are welcome in the Carbineer forums. Just stopsaying that we don't need fixes. Hope that finishes this argument, and the flames that came with them.
cloakanddagger wrote:
I ask any of you in the above category to please stop posting in the Carbineer forum saying that we don't need fixes. That's not the case. YOU don't need fixes.
pure carbineer here...finally got master also.
I was vs a master carbineer/BH for a fun duel, i didnt even get off a shot before i was dizzyed knocked down on fire and cripple shotted to death in less then 3 seconds.
He walks over and says that is why carbineers sont suck. And now i realize the truth to this persons post, anyone that has dabbled in another proffession BECAUSE it makes carbineer more powerful shouldnt say how they kick so much ass. Us "pure bloods" know the flaws in our class because we are not clouded by your proffesions. And anyone that says anything against that is obviously a BH/ doctor/ other proffession etc.
BTW the carb i was using was a laser 46-306 2.2 low HAM with powerup 58-405 2.2
people spam specials unnecessarily. you don't always *have* to spam specials.
and migrate your stats so that you are better able to manage your HAM.
it's not that difficult to figure out. when i am in hunting parties, i don't feel obligated to spam specials...i'm using an AP2 Laser Carbine (regular or Krayt, depending on what i'm fighting), and i'll usually use regular shots sprinkled with /burstshot1 (one or two per creature, tops), and do just fine. i'm getting great xps, and handing out quite a bit of dmg.
otherwise just pick up medic and spam specials all day. all it takes is Novice Medic and the credits to pick up some MD made Stim B's...
Ok first things first I have bounty hunter carbine, why? Cause carbine has too many flaws without it. I have had the class to master with out it, but when I decided to come back I checked in with those using it and nothing had changed for carbineers 
. So I picked up bounty carbine so I could at least hit the speed cap. I think that the carbineer's broken specials and missing speed is way more importain than ham costs... Why cause HAM costs are so easy to work around you dont even need to spend points on it, food and spice cover it just fine. Melee classes chew thru there ham at an = if not faster rate than us. TK may be the exception but when I read there forums they chew there ham up pretty well too as doc is very popular combo for them as well.
I still feal that HAM costs should not be are focus on what needs to be fixxed. I feal we should be after the speed we are missing before anything else. Rifle and pistol both hit the speed cap or get very close to it with there best weapons, we dont. This hurts us more than anything currently in game We should not have to drop down to the snub just so we can hit the speed cap. We should be able to use are damage sliced laser carbines at the cap just like rifle uses theres.
Ous specials should be 2nd on the list. The fact that I have charge shot, stopping shot,cripple shot, and a macro that doesboth bleeds and thats it from carbineer is a sad pathetic joke... Area knockdown would be brutal for me. I hunt with groups whenever I can and the abilty to knockdown a group of agros chasing uswould have saved me about 75% durribilty on my clothes rightnow. I dont let myself think of how nice it would be for pvp it just makes me mad. Could you imagine if supresive fire 2 worked as a delay? The listgoes onfrom here and only gets more frustrating and there is NOTHING in game we can do to fix this. It doesnt matter what food or spice I take, I cant use powerups to make them sort of work,I cant go to the doc and get it buffedaway for 3 hours. No matter what the specials are broken and there is nothing we can do about it.
Last but not least are ham costs suck. I clearclose to 180 on my floaty above my head when I forget my food or buffs. Do I think this sucks? yes Do I think this is what cripples my classmore than anything else? Not a chance. The fact thatI am slower than everyother elitehurts me much more in the race to be at least =. Face it we can overcome our ham costs withvery little effort the only way for us to fix our speed and get more specials that work is by pickingup BountyHuntercarbine.I should not have to go outside the class to get the same DPS as the rifleman or pistolier.
Itried to keep thisflame free.Please do the same we are all in the same sinkingboat even if some of us have bought some crazy glue to try and hold the boat together till we get some much needed repairs.
Lageas
A friend of mine and I had a discussion about that just the other day which got pretty much out of control I have been a carbineer since I started and I recently mastered it (although I did this mostly for the sake of a fs) but even before that I always loved it. Of course I had to take up medic to survive which screwed up my original template but I hoped that this would change some day (and it seems that it will in december). My friend on the other hand simply mastered carbineer to get a fs. He did it in 3 days and was buffed pretty much all the time. When our discussion started I told him that he doesn't know anything about the carbineer since he was buffed and he would or could not understand that. He agreed that we have broken specials but concerning ham costs he simply went on saying that it was no problem running around buffed all the time or to pick up medic. I think his view on carbineer is pretty srewed. The problem is that some people just want to be 'uber' and to achieve that they will pick up the most badass profession and probably some medic skills with it. They simply don't understand people who play a class for the pure joy of it. For them its normal to run around buffed. But the casual players shouldn't be forced into doing that.
The point of this post? Hmmm probably that I had to vent from the discussion. Possibly that ham costs and specials need to get fixed as well. Or simply that life sucks at some times but there is always hope.
Sorry to hear about your fight. I have ended up in some pretty heated debates in game as well... Nothing makes you feal more silly than realising you just got into a "screaming match" over a game.
Hope things work out for the best
Lageas