Carbineer Archive
Thread: Our Question
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TAfirehawk
Thu Jun 19, 2003 6:27 am
#1
Thanks for the discussion jfang. I agree with most of your points and it is quite true that the rest of the messed up PvP situation is making the CM's look horribly out of balance when they may not be too far out....
Although I don't see why the 75% PvP reduction doesn't apply......seems like that needs fixed....maybe that is why the Devs are saying they are not going to nerf CM's....
It is all guesswork at this point.....
jfang
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:20 pm
#2
Well, if you both just posted it, isn't it possible to send a comment to TH an hour later say "oh, oops, we meant to really ask *this*"? It's not like he has started working on the carbineer one right *now*. If nothing else, if the same question was asked twice, it might give us both a better answer, as it shows lots of people are interested. Not to mention if he dodges it twice, it will look *really* bad. 
I posted this before to the combat medic correspondent, but I will restate it here...
There should be a correspondent's"pre-19 answers thread". This might be officially sanctioned by TH or not. Basically, it would be a voluntary thread posted a day or two before the official deadline, in which correspondents can take a quick look at what theother correspondentspropose to ask, and maybe give some quick "that's a bad question because it was already referenced two weeks ago here" comments to each other.
TH might even pop in and give a 30 second once over saying "interesting question, you really don't want to ask that, that seems good...". Basically a forum to make sure that professions don't "waste" a question.
Edit:
P.S. In support of Novamarine, there was only minimal support for that question in the Pistoleer's "next question" thread. It appears as if the pistoleer correspondent just made a command decision (/tsk). Whereas our thread has this potentialquestion and support for itwell documented.So it is purely "their fault" for the redundant question.
Then again, I'm sure Novamarine went through all the other "19 questions" threads before choosing our question to avoid overlap... 
Edit:
If you have a spare minute, take a look at their "next question thread". They have... interesting views about what a pistoleer should be... I think some of them want to really be carbineers.
Message Edited by jfang on 06-15-2004 04:40 PM
novamarine
Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:39 am
#3
Here is the question I asked Thunderheart this week:
Carbineer question
Carbineers and several other professions have access to 2 types of accuracy: accuracy and accuracy while moving. Does accuracy always apply and accuracy while moving work as a bonus when the character is moving or does accuracy apply when not moving and accuracy while moving apply while moving?
Now whatis completely hilarious is that Randonb (Pistoleer Correspondant) and I posted practically the same question at almost the exact same time. If either of us had seen the other's question first, we could have gone to Plan B and asked a different question.
Rorenikibi
Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:01 am
#4
Considering its about all we can ask that won't get deflected, it looks good to me, Nova.
TAfirehawk
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:16 am
#5
The more professions that ask, the more it will get looked at IMO.....
No need for Plan B...
novamarine
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:18 am
#6
jfang wrote:
Then again, I'm sure Novamarine went through all the other "19 questions" threads before choosing our question to avoid overlap...
Eeek. I read a few other forums but no I don't do that. Maybe you could do that for me every other week and give us a heads up what others might be asking
Edit:
If you have a spare minute, take a look at their "next question thread". They have... interesting views about what a pistoleer should be... I think some of them want to really be carbineers.
I have noticed that. They really want states attached to all of their specials. Pistoleers are definately wierd and I don't get them. I play a master pistoleer as well and the class really works far better than they would leave you to believe. They tend to focus puring on their broken specials and then immediately come to the conclusion their classes is completely broken. Unfortunately, they skim over their awesome defenses, wide selection of pistols, the fact they can target and bleed health which in PvE is the best pool to be able to target and the fact that their specials that do work, work quite well. That doesn't mean the class doesn't have problems but aside from the specials that are broken, they are having the same problems many other classes are having like lack of damage output.
jfang
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:30 am
#7
novamarine wrote:
Then again, I'm sure Novamarine went through all the other "19 questions" threads before choosing our question to avoid overlap...
Eeek. I read a few other forums but no I don't do that. Maybe you could do that for me every other week and give us a heads up what others might be asking :smileywink
I'm not sure I can do that. But I think I could probably tell you all the answers that will be given each week despite that.
Like I said though, an auxiliary correspondent's "Pre-19 answers reality check" thread would be useful for this reason, among others.
So, did you manage to pull a hat trick and change the question asked? A assume because you have not mentioned it, you did not. "Ironfist" Thunderheart wouldn't let you? 
novamarine
Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:16 am
#8
jfang wrote:
So, did you manage to pull a hat trick and change the question asked? A assume because you have not mentioned it, you did not. "Ironfist" Thunderheart wouldn't let you?
I honestly didn't even try because I couldn't think of a better question off the top of my head and by asking the same question twice it emphasizes that players really want to understand what is going on.
EisMan_Buckeye
Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:57 am
#9
/agree
novamarine wrote:
...by asking the same question twice it emphasizes that players really want to understand what is going on.
PadreBook
Wed Jun 16, 2004 3:19 pm
#10
Let me comment on the Pistoleer situation. Pistoleers want more because we see what BH gets at BH Pistol IV (yes I know that MBH Sprayshot is fantastic btw and they get more speed than you do also) compared to what the entire Pistoleer profession gets. They have Mind Shot, Torso Shot (Pistol shot that does a Health Fire Bleed and as such is the best pistol shot in the game), and Bleeding Shot.
Pistoleer has these shots: HealthShot2 (does health specific damage, has one of the highest multiples, and has a fast delay), FanShot (does area effect damage if you can get the targets all lined up), PistolMeleeDefense(?1 or 2--the other doesn't not work at all) (melee range Knockdown) no other shot need apply. Stopping Shot and Double Tap are just higher damage random pool higher delay shots which for any use are less effective than just the Novice level Healthshot2.
So yes they are broken the whole profession has 3 shots you would use. You could use all 3 of the BH shots (not counting FastBlast) effectively, particularly since a BH 0040 has a higher speed than Master Pistoleer with Master Marksman. The damage output is woeful versus any high level stuff also with the three weapons with ap1 (2 energy, 1 acid and only one can be made with decent damage).
The reason Pistoleers want states is because they've said they are not going to give Pistoleers an AP2 weapon, so then it's trying to get something useful. Yes I do understand that Carbineers are getting the short end of it in most areas--believe me I'm a Pikeman I understand.
Padre
Pistoleer has these shots: HealthShot2 (does health specific damage, has one of the highest multiples, and has a fast delay), FanShot (does area effect damage if you can get the targets all lined up), PistolMeleeDefense(?1 or 2--the other doesn't not work at all) (melee range Knockdown) no other shot need apply. Stopping Shot and Double Tap are just higher damage random pool higher delay shots which for any use are less effective than just the Novice level Healthshot2.
So yes they are broken the whole profession has 3 shots you would use. You could use all 3 of the BH shots (not counting FastBlast) effectively, particularly since a BH 0040 has a higher speed than Master Pistoleer with Master Marksman. The damage output is woeful versus any high level stuff also with the three weapons with ap1 (2 energy, 1 acid and only one can be made with decent damage).
The reason Pistoleers want states is because they've said they are not going to give Pistoleers an AP2 weapon, so then it's trying to get something useful. Yes I do understand that Carbineers are getting the short end of it in most areas--believe me I'm a Pikeman I understand.
Padre
Bolto
Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:59 pm
#11
Honestly, BH should kick ass for the ammount of skill points it soaks up.
EisMan_Buckeye
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:22 pm
#12
PadreBook wrote:
Let me comment on the Pistoleer situation. Pistoleers want more because we see what BH gets at BH Pistol IV (yes I know that MBH Sprayshot is fantastic btw and they get more speed than you do also) compared to what the entire Pistoleer profession gets. They have Mind Shot, Torso Shot (Pistol shot that does a Health Fire Bleed and as such is the best pistol shot in the game), and Bleeding Shot.
Pistoleer has these shots: HealthShot2 (does health specific damage, has one of the highest multiples, and has a fast delay), FanShot (does area effect damage if you can get the targets all lined up), PistolMeleeDefense(?1 or 2--the other doesn't not work at all) (melee range Knockdown) no other shot need apply. Stopping Shot and Double Tap are just higher damage random pool higher delay shots which for any use are less effective than just the Novice level Healthshot2.
So yes they are broken the whole profession has 3 shots you would use. You could use all 3 of the BH shots (not counting FastBlast) effectively, particularly since a BH 0040 has a higher speed than Master Pistoleer with Master Marksman. The damage output is woeful versus any high level stuff also with the three weapons with ap1 (2 energy, 1 acid and only one can be made with decent damage).
The reason Pistoleers want states is because they've said they are not going to give Pistoleers an AP2 weapon, so then it's trying to get something useful. Yes I do understand that Carbineers are getting the short end of it in most areas--believe me I'm a Pikeman I understand.
Padre
At the speed cap, Torso Shot is no better than Health Shot 2, and Stopping Shot is 25% more damageing than Fan Shot. By the way, did I mention it is VERY easy for a master pistoleer to reach the speed cap?
Pistoleers rightfully so should not have an AP2 weapon. They are using PISTOLS for crying out load. Pistoleers' forte is defense and speed, not raw damage. Nor is it crowd control, so I truelly hope I speak for the Devs when I say there is no good reason to give pistoleers a bunch of state effect shots. That is OUR forte, so in all politeness, but out.
novamarine
Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:34 pm
#13
Pistoleers specials are not as broken as many claim. Several of those "broken" specials have qualifiers on them like only good at master and only good with a 2.0 pistol. Come on. If I apply those standards to many of the carbineer specials then they would all be broken as well.
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