Carbineer Archive

Some typical stats on my server for these Carbines: (straight from my PA mates shop..unsliced)

Laser: 42-272 @ 4.2 (AR2, Energy)

DXR6: 107-173 @ 4.2 (AR1, Acid)

Elite: 110-188 @ 3.5 (AR1, Energy)

I can't remember the HAM costs off the top of my head.

As I read the damage mitigation stuff....the Elite is looking pretty good.

Tell me Im wrong/right.

Discuss.

Sorry...the speed on that DXR6 is actually 4.1.

I just did the math on the carbine stats you posted. These damage ranges are all against someone with ranged mitigation 3, so a 60% reduction in all of the damage ranges.

Laser carbine 42-92 damage

DXR6 107-133 damage

Elite carbine 110-141 damage

So in high end PvP the potentially most damaging carbine is now the worst carbine and the elite carbine is the best to use. The damage mitigation makes all weapons with a large range of damage crap in pvp. Minimum damage on a weapon just became the most important weapon stat in pvp against masters. I expect to see powerup crafters start selling +32% min +16% max damage powerups now.

wow, those speeds on the laser and DXR6 are slow...

normally, you see 3.5 for laser and DXR6, and only about 10 less max damage for normal unsliced lasers on intrepid. DXR6s actually seem to have higher damage too. wierd.

personally, i'll probably be going with both, hopefully krayt made (if i can get tissue... **edit** 380k HAM krayts)

yes indeed, the elite is looking GREAT for PvP. if i stil had any +76 tissues left, i'd use em on one but i used mine for my laser. well, off to hunt krayts!

Isn't it funny how the things get changed in this game? We ask the Devs to make the elite carbine not suck, so instead of making its stats better, they make the highest damaging carbine crap in PvP.

Average Damage per shot:

Laser
DM0 - 0%: 157
DM1 - 20%: 134
DM2 - 40%: 111
DM3 - 60%: 88

DXR6
DM0 - 0%: 140
DM1 - 20%: 133
DM2 - 40%: 127
DM3 - 60%: 120

Elite
DM0 - 0%: 149
DM1 - 20%: 141
DM2 - 40%: 133
DM3 - 60%: 126

...I think

Those calcs were done like this:

[max] - [min] = [range]

[range] * [dm factor] = [mitigated range]

[mitigated range] + [min] = [mitigated max]

([mitigated max] + [min]) / 2 = [mitigated average]

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TheAbjurer wrote:

I just did the math on the carbine stats you posted. These damage ranges are all against someone with ranged mitigation 3, so a 60% reduction in all of the damage ranges.

Laser carbine 42-92 damage

DXR6 107-133 damage

Elite carbine 110-141 damage

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Actually, I believe your math is incorrect. Let me give this a try.

The laser was originally 42-272 damage, which is a range of 230. Mitigation 3 reduces that range by 60%, to 92. So, in the end, the laser does 42 - 134 damage.

Similarly, if I list the modified damage of all 3 weapons (using mitigation 3), you see this:

• Laser: 42 - 134


• DXR-6: 107 - 133


• Elite: 110 - 141

It looks like you just used the range in the place of the laser's max damage. The others are all correct.

However, if we then take into account that the laser is AP2 (we'll assume we're fighting a lightly armored opponents as we're already maknig the assumption that our opponent is a master and has mitigation 3). In that case, the laser does an extra 25% damage, so now our numbers look like this:

• Laser: 53 - 168


• DXR-6: 107 - 133


• Elite: 110 - 141

If we now look at damage per second (which is equal to [average damage]/[fire rate]), we see this:

• Laser DPS: 110.5 / 4.2 = 26.3


• DXR-6 DPS: 120 / 4.2 = 28.6


• Elite DPS: 125.5 / 3.5 = 35.9

As you can see, the elite is the better choice of the 3, but not by as much as you had originally posted. Of course, this is assuming that your opponent has Level 3 Damage Mitigation. If your opponent's mitigation level is lower than this, the laser is still more valuable. Here's what you get for DPS values against Level 1 and Level 2 Mitigation enemies (assuming light armor, once again):

Against Level 1 Mitigation:

• Laser: 53 - 283, DPS = 40


• DXR-6: 107 - 160, DPS = 31.8


• Elite: 110 - 172, DPS = 40.3

Against Level 2 Mitigation

• Laser: 42 - 180, DPS = 33.1


• DXR-6: 107 - 147, DPS = 30.2


• Elite: 110 - 157, DPS = 38.1

As you can see, the laser is as good (if not better) than any other against mitigation 1 and becomes more inferior as the mitigation level of your opponent increases.

Of course, not everyone is going to have ranged weapon damage mitigation - melee fighters gain melee weapon damage mitigation. Aganist them, the laser is still going to be the best weapon.

And, of course, you can't totally ignore the usefulness of the DXR-6 as it is the only decent weapon carbineers get that does something besides energy damage.

So, I guess the moral of the story is, "Know your weapons and know your opponent."

You're right, the Elite / DXR6 are much better PvP weapons now. However, we have to keep in mind, that a Krayt DH17 Short has not been completely removed from the picture. It does still fire faster and is better HAM, in fact proably 2x as fast (Speed 1.8 vs 3.5 pre-slice) you can effectively double the damage numbers of the Krayt (or even normal) DH17 when comparing. Only if you care about the time factor of course.

Yeah but the DH17 has ZERO armor piercing. I dont know about you but most people I PvP have armor on.

KD - neglects Armor, unless they changed that. It gives a 50% more dmg + neglects armor.

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AriasImmortal wrote:

wow, those speeds on the laser and DXR6 are slow...

normally, you see 3.5 for laser and DXR6, and only about 10 less max damage for normal unsliced lasers on intrepid. DXR6s actually seem to have higher damage too. wierd.

personally, i'll probably be going with both, hopefully krayt made (if i can get tissue... **edit** 380k HAM krayts)

yes indeed, the elite is looking GREAT for PvP. if i stil had any +76 tissues left, i'd use em on one but i used mine for my laser. well, off to hunt krayts!

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No you absolutely do not want krayts they will crush you weapon when mitigation is factored in. Why? Krayts only add to max damage...

Hypothetical situation here although in practice the weapon ranges are not far off of carbines like the elite or the dxr6.

Base weapon 100-200, krayt tissue +50, speed is discounted, we are all masters here right? At master 4.1 speed = 1 for a master carbine...anyway on to the demonstration.

Base 100-200
200-100 = 100
insert mitigation
100*(60/100) = 60
200-60 = 140
result 100-140, avg 120


Krayt weapon 100-250

250-100 = 150
150*(60/100) = 90
250-90 = 160
Average hit 130, a drop of 92%...Ouch...

So that uber krayt tissue with damage mitigation actually only gives you a 10 points extra damage in practice in PvP over the base weapon when mitigation is factored in. This gets even worse if your weapon has a huge spread to start with (eg republic blaster, pre-patch FWG5, laser carbine).

As a cheaper more accessible option you might consider instead of a krayt tissue you adding a stock to your weapon.

The current stocks we use add 35 points to max and min damage. The min damage is crucial as we will see.

So lets take our example 100-200 weapon and add the stock so it is a 135-235 weapon.

235-135 = 100
100*(60/100) = 60
235 - 60 = 175
New damage 135-175,
Avg damage 155

So a 35 increase from a stock actually increases the weapon average damage against mitigation 3 by 25 points over even the 50 point krayt tissue.

Krayts are fine for weapons while there is no NPC or MOB mitigation, but in PvP and when they add mitigation to MOBS and NPC? Forget it, don't waste your money.

Krayt DH17 is not faster when you are master because speed bottoms out at 1.0.

At 75 speed I can reduce a 4.1 speed weapon to 1.0

Attack rate for a player is

(Base *Weapon* *Speed*) * [1 - (*Weapon* *Speed* Skill/100)]

So
4.1*(1-(75/100))
1.02500

Thus a DXR6 at 4.1 and a DH17 at 2.6 are at master the same speed, 1.0.

So for masters the DH17 is already a bad choice as a weapon because the speed is not relevant and adding a krayt makes it even worse since it increases the spread and thus the damage penalty. Remember krayts ONLY add max damage.

Much better to take a DXR6 or an Elite, stock it with +35 min and max, add a min damage powerup of 33% and reduce that spread to less than 50 pts.

Just to illustrate with hypothetical weapons and how mitigation crushes weapons with unreliable damage ie large spreads.

50-500 Weapon
500-50=450
450*.6 = 270
450-270 = 180
(180+50)/2 = 115 avg damage

125-250 weapon
250-125 = 125
125*.6 = 75
250-75 = 175
(175+125)/2 = 150 avg damage

It is all about the spread. That second weapon does 30% more damage than the first weapon despite the second weapon only having 50% the max damage.

Mitigation changes all the rules and everything you thought made a good weapon has changed.

Right now the effect is limited to PvP, but probably in a patch or so mitigation will be on all NPC at least and probably high level Mobs as well.

BTW I used the above examples and they are not far off what you get with a krayt enhanced laser carbine vs a stock enhanced DXR6 or an Elite although I was perhaps a little generous with the first weapon, it would probably be around 400-450 sliced with a krayt tissue. The DXR6 is would be sliced to meet 250 with a stock, but only about a 15% damage slice for the ones I use. My 27% damage sliced DXR6 with a stock is 277 max 167 min. The result is the same though, max damage is no longer what counts, what counts is the spread.

This also translates to powerups.

You want a powerup that raises the min damage and thus reduces the spread, but to get the most out of the powerup you need the min damage to be as high as possible. That is why the stocks are suddenly more valuable because they add to min damage as well as max (unlike krayt tissues).

A 33% power up on the min of a 50 damage weapon is a measly 66 damage, or a 16 pt increase. However on a 125 min damage the amount is increased to a nice 165 damage, an increase of 40 points. So lets take the above example again with a 33% min damage powerup.

50-500 Weapon
50*1.32 =66
500-66 = 434
450*.6 = 260
450-260 = 190
(180+66)/2 = 123 avg damage

125-250 weapon
125*1.32 = 165
250-165 = 85
85*.6 = 51
250-51 = 199
(199+165)/2 = 182 avg damage

Again we see the power of the spread magnified by the min damage powerup. Now the second weapon increases its advantage to 47%.

Even with the ham costs (which can be mitigated with tat sunburn and a mind % powerup or breath of heaven, or buffs) a stock is a better choice that a krayt simply due to cost.

An advanced stock is 28 corellian deciduous wood and 8 link-steel aluminum. About 500 credits in good resources. A krayt tissue on the other hand is very difficult to obtain and go for hundreds of thousands of credits, and require at least 7 for a DXR6, and 5 for an Elite. How many people are going to powerup a weapon, and increase its decay, when it costs that much? Especially when krayt tissues actually hurt more than help when mitigation comes into play.

No the stock is the better option even with the HAM cost and speed issues.

Oh and my 32.8% powerups on my DXR6 carbines gives it a spread of only 56 points

277-221 = 56
56*.6 =
33.6
277-33.6 = 243
(243+221)/2 = 232 avg damage