Carbineer Archive
Thread: Face the fact range weapons in this game is a waste of time
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Benora
Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:58 pm
#1
1 I want to say that I'm a veterant player Ihave been playing this game since the begining.
2 Guys be honest what are you thinking when you think about starwars light sabers, laser weapons, droids and space ships.
Now this game, is not even close to be consider like a starwars game why? simple melee professions are way too strong, I have done all combat professions and I must say that I'm really disapointed by range professions it's a total waste of time to be. I'm really frusted to see somone with a swords, fist .. to be able to kill someone with a gun, rifle and carbine so easely, I don't want range weapons to be god professions but when you see in this game that most of the npc and creatureshave hight resistance to hall types of dammage cause by a range weaponsI'm totally frustreted.
Range weapons should dominant in this game why? again simple just use your logic, how can you beat somone with a gun or a rifle in real life with your hands or a knife, ok some of you will say it's a game yes it is but fact is fact range should prof that ppl choose 1 and melee to be a complement.
Carbineris the most disapointing range prof to be :
1 at master no special attack
2 if you are not a bh this porf is almost useless
3 Take what ever melee prof you don't need to master a complement prof to be good and strong just a good buff a good composite armor and you can solo almost evrything, in a range prof forget that.
4 Cost of ham when using a special is insane.
5 if they don't want to give range weapon good defence melee weapon should not be allow to wear compiste armor once again it's logic how can you move fast with a sword or your hands with an heavy armor.
6 explain to me why melee can do more dammage then a range weapons execpt commendo and llc bh
7finally DEV should watched movies and reads books about starwars cause it seems to me that they don't know what is the universe of starwars.
I know many topics above have been discuss since the begining of this game, this why it's so sad cause this game has more then a year now and before jtl they should fix the ground, sometimes I'm woundering if DEV are listening and if they care about us. Yes they have done many imrpovements but combat balance is the priority of the game nothing else.
Like I said I don't want range weapons to be god but when you watch movies of starwars most of the fight are done by laser weapons look how storm troopers scare ppl by their precision with a carbine. If you are a real fan like me I know most of the guys who are in this game are will agree with me. This game has great potential to be one of the best MMO of all time but I think DEV should ask help of George Lucas. I like the fact that you can use asword or what ever melee butwhat make starwars what it is, it's laser fights and if not why starwars galactics battlefront is so popular not by the use of melee.
PLZ DEV WAKE UP AND LISTEN TO PALYERS AND IF YOU NEED HELP FOR SOME SUGGESTIONS YOU KNOW WHERE TO CONTACT ME.
Benora
Mon Oct 11, 2004 10:59 pm
#2
1 I want to say that I'm a veterant player Ihave been playing this game since the begining.
2 Guys be honest what are you thinking when you think about starwars light sabers, laser weapons, droids and space ships.
Now this game, is not even close to be consider like a starwars game why? simple melee professions are way too strong, I have done all combat professions and I must say that I'm really disapointed by range professions it's a total waste of time to be. I'm really frusted to see somone with a swords, fist .. to be able to kill someone with a gun, rifle and carbine so easely, I don't want range weapons to be god professions but when you see in this game that most of the npc and creatureshave hight resistance to hall types of dammage cause by a range weaponsI'm totally frustreted.
Range weapons should dominant in this game why? again simple just use your logic, how can you beat somone with a gun or a rifle in real life with your hands or a knife, ok some of you will say it's a game yes it is but fact is fact range should prof that ppl choose 1 and melee to be a complement.
Carbineris the most disapointing range prof to be :
1 at master no special attack
2 if you are not a bh this porf is almost useless
3 Take what ever melee prof you don't need to master a complement prof to be good and strong just a good buff a good composite armor and you can solo almost evrything, in a range prof forget that.
4 Cost of ham when using a special is insane.
5 if they don't want to give range weapon good defence melee weapon should not be allow to wear compiste armor once again it's logic how can you move fast with a sword or your hands with an heavy armor.
6 explain to me why melee can do more dammage then a range weapons execpt commendo and llc bh
7finally DEV should watched movies and reads books about starwars cause it seems to me that they don't know what is the universe of starwars.
I know many topics above have been discuss since the begining of this game, this why it's so sad cause this game has more then a year now and before jtl they should fix the ground, sometimes I'm woundering if DEV are listening and if they care about us. Yes they have done many imrpovements but combat balance is the priority of the game nothing else.
Like I said I don't want range weapons to be god but when you watch movies of starwars most of the fight are done by laser weapons look how storm troopers scare ppl by their precision with a carbine. If you are a real fan like me I know most of the guys who are in this game are will agree with me. This game has great potential to be one of the best MMO of all time but I think DEV should ask help of George Lucas. I like the fact that you can use asword or what ever melee butwhat make starwars what it is, it's laser fights and if not why starwars galactics battlefront is so popular not by the use of melee.
PLZ DEV WAKE UP AND LISTEN TO PALYERS AND IF YOU NEED HELP FOR SOME SUGGESTIONS YOU KNOW WHERE TO CONTACT ME.
Rabidmutt
Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:48 pm
#3
I disagree that ranged weapons are a waste of time. Obviously being a carbineer and using ranged over melee when I fight, is an indication why I have such a bias. I've solo'd and beaten other professions before, the key is that you have to know what you're
doing when you combat against a melee.
For example, you always have to kite your enemy, unless of course you have a group to support you and then you could hold your ground, but it'd still be best to keep your distance from melee as best as possible.
Second, statse, states, and more states. States are what weaken melee and enemies in general. When fighting someone, I will often be using state shots rather than damage shots like crippling and keep my opponents weakened, beating them into submission.
I mentioned it before, but it's best to be grouped with your friends whenever possible. Part of surviving is knowing your limits. Carbineers have their flaws and limits, and it's best to be grouped with others rather than going about trying to solo everything. Carbines do have their disadvantageswhen up against melee, so sometimes it's better to retreat to fightanotherday than rather get pounded by a defense stacker.
Also, DOT carbines can be a major help. For example, I have an action flame carbine that I often use against small groups and single opponents that works rather nicely. I don't remember the stats on it exactly, but it's fair action fire DOT that's good for pecking away at your enemy. The other day I was up against an imperialteras kasi in Anchorhead. Maintaining distance, I put an intimidate on him, pounded him with states and then put on a posture change to put him on the ground. Then, I took out my DOT carbine and lit him up and switched back to my laser carbine. Judging by my opponent, he didn't appear to have any ranged profession or benefits on him, therefore a laser carbine might promise a decent amount of damage if he has no ranged mitigation. Surely enough the man had no ranged mitigation (it seemed) and got pounded with heavy damage, while having a nice little flame dot eat at his action pool and leaving a nice present for him after I sent him to the cloner.
NPC's are a sligthly different story. Because I know my limitations, I know I can't solo certain strong NPC's, but carbines are best used in group PVE to apply states and weaken the NPC. I do agree that we need more damage types than acid, heat, and energy. There are a few creatures out there that make our weapons useless against them, but as long states apply, I'm a happy carbineer.
Anyhow, by real life logic, a gun should have a distinct advantage over melee weapons, but this is a video game where a lot of things are fictitious and make no sense, so all we can do is deal with it. The key is you have to know the weaknesses in your meleeopponents and NPC's as well as in yourself, and you have to fight accordingly.
JagdKatze
Tue Oct 12, 2004 2:34 am
#4
The problem with your argument, Rabidmutt, is that the specific example you gave was a poor one. Any Teras Kasi Master who KNOWS how to PVP will destroy a Master Carbineer. Assuming the two people are simply a Master Teras Kasi and a Master Carbineer and nothing else, the TKM has the upper hand. Yes, carbineers have range but effective use of burstrunning when you least expect it can negate that, and TKMs specials are chainable almost infitely while carbineers are slow, and terribly draining. Switching weapons is fine and all, but since weapon switch is nerfed (something melee profs almost never have to do) that puts us at yet ANOTHER disadvantage.
Another concern(s) is swordman, fencer, and pikeman. I've seen these profs (repeatedly with pikeman) use a lower posture attack from literally 25 feet away. Now if they're going to give MELEE that kind of range then carbines should have sniper range, and rifles should be artillery to scale it correctly. But they dont. Also, when dueling, melee has intimidate which kills your ability to apply your beloved states and do any real damage. Intimidate, and warcry to delay you for what feels like 30 minutes. This totally destroys your offensive capabilities for the 10 seconds it tkes them to kill you whether you're buffed or not.
Exaggeration? Hardly. A solid pikeman with a mindfire DOT (and there's an ass-load of them out there...almost every PvPer is a pikeman with fire DOTs) can wipe the floor with you as a carbineer in 10 seconds flat. You're toast end of story.
What would you do? Knockdown? Not even close...pikeman stack with TKM/Fencer...knocking them down is a 1-in-a-million oddity, and using that attack just crippled your health and stamina by an ungodly amount.
Perhaps a really good mindfire carbine would do the trick? Laughable. The round starts and right away they warcry...now you cant shoot. Then you're intimidated, then flat on your back, and now you're so dizzy you'll never stand up again.
If you want a soloution, here's a few...but dont ever count on them; SOE is hard-determined to turn Star Wars into Lord of the Rings accordin to the way they treat melee.
1.) Give the Imperial carbines the ability to switch to stun damage. "There's one, set for stun!" It makes sense, and it would give a reason to use one because currenty all the E-11's are completely useless.
2.) Lower HAM costs for specials. This is self-explanatory. And its been repeated so I won't bother to elaborate.
3.) Give Masters of Ranged professions the ability to switch weapons without the delay, if not the hybrid profs like BH, Commando and Smuggler.
If those three things were implemented (as well as reducing the ungodly speed/DOT's/low HAM cost/armour compatibility of Melee profs) then WOW...carbineers wouldnt suck as bad! Imagine that!
But it'll never happen. Maybe we should get the Jedi to complain about it for us...the devs only listen to them anyway.
dimmu-borgir
Tue Oct 12, 2004 3:45 am
#5
cry more n00b.
this game is not in any way shape or form realistic or in line with the current timeline, the only reason this game can be dubbed "star wars" galaxies, is because of random content related to star wars, the gcw is practically non-existant, the empire is anything but opressive, and well, honestly, the rebels seem to outnumber the imperials.
also. this game does not utilize logic, instead, the melee professions are given very good defenses so that they can actually compete with ranged classes, because well, if your good enough at kiting, and melee was not very defensive, you could kill them before they reach you.
also:
one could argue that:
stat modifiers are more importiant than special attacks, as:
speed lets you fire faster, the faster you fire, the more effective you are
accuarcy lets you hit targets more often. recent studies show that hitting your target is good.
defenses let you get hit less, getting hit less means you live longer, albiet caribeener doesnt get a great deal of defenses, even so, every little bit helps.
yes, i would love to see the ground game fixed before jtl, but; soe loves to distract us by adding more content, instead of fixing major problems with existing professions, need an example, just look at musican/dancer. only 3 patch items since lauch, the fix of their buffs, the uberquickbuff nerf and the entertainer droids, not to mention a master musican can have an incredible repitour of 9 songs.
honestly, the major problem with the entire combat system is the power of composite armor and buffs, and well, hte devs have indicated that they never intended composite to become that powerful.
all i can really say, is wait for the combat balance,in the meantime, enjoy the broked PvP system with your dot lewt and uber armor, buffs and weapons.
this game is not in any way shape or form realistic or in line with the current timeline, the only reason this game can be dubbed "star wars" galaxies, is because of random content related to star wars, the gcw is practically non-existant, the empire is anything but opressive, and well, honestly, the rebels seem to outnumber the imperials.
also. this game does not utilize logic, instead, the melee professions are given very good defenses so that they can actually compete with ranged classes, because well, if your good enough at kiting, and melee was not very defensive, you could kill them before they reach you.
also:
one could argue that:
stat modifiers are more importiant than special attacks, as:
speed lets you fire faster, the faster you fire, the more effective you are
accuarcy lets you hit targets more often. recent studies show that hitting your target is good.
defenses let you get hit less, getting hit less means you live longer, albiet caribeener doesnt get a great deal of defenses, even so, every little bit helps.
yes, i would love to see the ground game fixed before jtl, but; soe loves to distract us by adding more content, instead of fixing major problems with existing professions, need an example, just look at musican/dancer. only 3 patch items since lauch, the fix of their buffs, the uberquickbuff nerf and the entertainer droids, not to mention a master musican can have an incredible repitour of 9 songs.
honestly, the major problem with the entire combat system is the power of composite armor and buffs, and well, hte devs have indicated that they never intended composite to become that powerful.
all i can really say, is wait for the combat balance,in the meantime, enjoy the broked PvP system with your dot lewt and uber armor, buffs and weapons.
MrSensitive
Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:07 am
#6
I agree to some degree (that was fun to type).
I don't pvp mostly because I feel that this game has possibly the worst implementation of pvp battle of any game I have been exposed to. That being said, I have a couple of combat toons: A speed capped swordsman with high medic and defense dabbling, and a pistol user (BH pistols, master smuggler, pistoleer x-x-4-2).
The swordsman is used for jedi xp grinding and high end loot farming. The Smuggler is used for when I actually feel like playing something star warsy. I have found that when speed capped the pistoleer can be an effective and fast killer, but can't efficiently take out the high end content that the swordsman can cut down like butter.
I have high hopes that the devs will actually do some things to:
-Fix the GCW
-Fix all of the busted specials in the pistoleer tree
-Make half of the smuggler tree and master smuggler worth something
-Balance the fact that when all professions are speed capped: rifles>Carbines>Pistols and Swords>Pike>TKM>Fencer.
-Fix the "could not reserve heap memory" bug that is infuriating me.
All of these issues are known, and fixes are promised. I truly hope that they follow through in commendable fashion.
Digitalphobia
Tue Oct 12, 2004 5:13 am
#7
Hi,
That is poor. If you have indeed gone up the carbineer trees, you will get some awesome results. Hey you can't cap with 4.0 Carbines, but you can get really close.
Yes we got problems with Def. We all know that, but you will have to get over it. Look at BH, they got less Def than Master Dancer! Note also our accuracy while moving is higher. So carbineer was not meant to fight standing; you ran around and shoot.
Personally, I think carbineer is an excellent profession. We can stick status probably more efficient than any other professions. Not only that we have Area PostureDown, Area KD, and Area all-kinda-status. It's a small powerhouse.
Plus, Carbineer specials are quite nice and you have choice of picking them while fighting. TKA, for example, you will end up spamming UA3 or Combo2 all the time. Swordsman is even worse. (Pikeman, I hear, is much better.)
As for SWG, what can you do? Just make the best of it.
Qui'lu of Chilastra
That is poor. If you have indeed gone up the carbineer trees, you will get some awesome results. Hey you can't cap with 4.0 Carbines, but you can get really close.
Yes we got problems with Def. We all know that, but you will have to get over it. Look at BH, they got less Def than Master Dancer! Note also our accuracy while moving is higher. So carbineer was not meant to fight standing; you ran around and shoot.
Personally, I think carbineer is an excellent profession. We can stick status probably more efficient than any other professions. Not only that we have Area PostureDown, Area KD, and Area all-kinda-status. It's a small powerhouse.
Plus, Carbineer specials are quite nice and you have choice of picking them while fighting. TKA, for example, you will end up spamming UA3 or Combo2 all the time. Swordsman is even worse. (Pikeman, I hear, is much better.)
As for SWG, what can you do? Just make the best of it.
Qui'lu of Chilastra
AdmiralSpy
Tue Oct 12, 2004 6:15 am
#8
Benora wrote:
Carbineris the most disapointing range prof to be :
1 at master no special attack
Ok, I'll give you that. But seeing as just about all our specials are working, and most are actually useful (as opposed to simply spamming HeadShot3, UnarmedHeadHit, ScalpSlam or ScatterHit2, StoppingShot.. etc), I think we have more than enough specials.
Specials are just that.. "specials". You should not be bashing the F10 key over and over again and expect to win with a high damage multiplier special.
2 if you are not a bh this porf is almost useless
Wrong. I spent about 2 months as BH/Carbineer before the BH requirements were nerfed, and while it certainly does help, it's not required.
The proof? I dueled argueably the best BH/Carbineer on Starsider, Uncrow. I'm not afraid to admit that he's the Carbine King of our server when it comes to coupling BH and Carbineer. He's therefore offense-stacked, whereas I am purely defense-stacked. I just have plain Master Carbineer as far as ranged weapons go.
Guess what? It was a dead stalemate. Our HAM bars barely moved.. we KD each other a few times, but my defenses litterally prevent me from getting states on me, and his chomping of KD food I presume saves himself from falling down. After about 5 minutes of reducing the condition on our armor and weapons, and a whole lotta wounds and battlefatigue.. we left it at that.
I'll agree with you on one thing, though. You need to couple Carbineer with something to make it work in PvP. But, my friend, this applies to ANY combat profession in this game. You wanna be the best PvP Carbineer? Fine.. dedicate all your Skillpoints to it.. everyone else does, after all.
3 Take what ever melee prof you don't need to master a complement prof to be good and strong just a good buff a good composite armor and you can solo almost evrything, in a range prof forget that.
Not really. Good luck trying to solo the new Elders as a Master Fencer.. sure you can tank it but it'll take you 2 hours to bring it down, and about 300k in armor. I know, I did it 12 times already. Soloing in this game is overrated. Even Jedi can't solo Elders or Krayts because they get their butts handed to them due to their lack of armor and stuff.
Carbineers aren't useful in high-level PvE, but they aren't also completely useless. It is a rare occurence that a MOB is impermeable to Energy, Heat and Acid at once.
4 Cost of ham when using a special is insane.
I don't know anyone who doesn't fight unbuffed anymore. They're high, yes, and maybe tax a bit on the mind pool if you're wearing a full suit of armor.. but even the most "focus-gimped" races like Zabs and Twis can get away with Brandy, Ahrisa or Music buffs.
There's no reason or excuse not to have buffs anymore as a veteran player. Sorry. (it sucks, I know, and lets hope the CB addresses that.. )
5 if they don't want to give range weapon good defence melee weapon should not be allow to wear compiste armor once again it's logic how can you move fast with a sword or your hands with an heavy armor.
Logic won't get you very far in terms of "combat design" in this game. Carbineer is known for low defenses, yes. Hey.. why not couple it with 4440 Fencer or.. for even less SP loss.. 004x pistoleer? Now there's an idea
6 explain to me why melee can do more dammage then a range weapons execpt commendo and llc bh
Have you forgotten our headshot spamming brothers? Riflemen? Have you even attempted to get yourself a good krayt Carbine made?
The thing people forget is that Carbineer requires uber equipment to succeed as well. Every Fencer knows this.. it's all about the acklay stun baton.. and they'll spend millions on em.. as well as DoT knives.
Same with riflemen.. they'll go through lengths to get a Krayt Jawa or Tenloss made. Pikemen will spend millions on DoT lances, and Swordsmen will spend millions on speed SEAs and acklay hammers and geo scythes.
Even our Pistoleer friends will get DoT pistols and Geo stuff..
But us Carbineers? It's a bit harder. Simply because there's no demand for it. I was talking to a well-known weaponsmith on my server, and asked her how many times people came to her for Krayt Carbines.. almost never.
Sure, it's directly related to the number of people playing the profession.. but even then, it doesn't account for the relatively low number of high damage Carbines made. A 700 damage Laser is a near-godlike weapon, and anyone lucky enough to get one (requires ~100 dmg tissues and a good slice) will simply "pwn".. regardless of their Carbineer template.
Put some effort into your proffesion, bud. No one said it was going to be easy.
7finally DEV should watched movies and reads books about starwars cause it seems to me that they don't know what is the universe of starwars.
Galaxies is not a Star Wars game. It's a socialMMO set in the Star Wars Universe. It borrows from all movies and books, but does not follow the timeline. Learn it, love it, live it.
FranzSolo
Tue Oct 12, 2004 7:46 am
#9
I really think our attack mods should be godly since we havethe worst defenses of any combat profession. I hate that you HAVE to add fencer, or TKM, or pistols to get any defense. Noone picks up a little carbine skill for anything useful, unlike the techniqes line for dodge, etc. A counterattack fix may make this point null and void, if it ever gets around...
Benora
Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:10 am
#10
Are you doing pvp I think not cause you will not rigth a post like that, open your eyes a carbiner againt certain types of creatures can do quit a result but if your fun in this game is to kill just creatures buy a hunt game, I'm a pvp veterant and like i said I know all combat professions cause I have done hall of them, and I can say that a carbiner is a big disapointement you have a 0 chance to survive againts a TK, pikeman and a swrodsman.
Read the pos below this guys tell an other fact most of the melee weapons can knock you down from 15m-25m so when you pvp have a nice, most of the time you will face a tk/fencer 1 he will knock you down with tk skills 2 with fencer skill you are toast.
what is the definition of a carbiner? It's an assaulter, a 1 line fighter. you have good point in your post bro but don't get me wrong melee are the ruler of this game and that's a fact when you will log count how many range weapons you will see and how many carbiner you will see.
TAfirehawk
Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:20 am
#11
5 whole posts.....
There is no CHEESE in this Forum, so take your Whine somewhere else.....
AdmiralSpy
Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:25 am
#12
Benora wrote:
Are you doing pvp I think not cause you will not rigth a post like that, open your eyes a carbiner againt certain types of creatures can do quit a result but if your fun in this game is to kill just creatures buy a hunt game, I'm a pvp veterant and like i said I know all combat professions cause I have done hall of them, and I can say that a carbiner is a big disapointement you have a 0 chance to survive againts a TK, pikeman and a swrodsman.
I'm in the best Imperial PvP guild on Starsider. I use Carbines for PvP whenever we go out (which is almost daily.)
Yes, I need a doctor to heal poisons and fires.. yes, I sometimes need a CM to heal my mind.. but Carbineer is meant to be played with a group.
Again, a solo Carbineer is a dead Carbineer. Why are you taking the hits? Stay back, find a nice spot in between two buildings where you get a small window of fire, and FullAutoArea2 away. Close in for KDs and kills if need be.
Yes, Carbineer is the most 'gimped' profession as far as combat goes.. there's no denying it. But it's fun, and I love it. If you don't.. don't. 
Take up TK and Fencer if you want to, heh. There's no use torturing yourself for nothing, bro. 
Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 10-12-2004 11:27 AM
TAfirehawk
Tue Oct 12, 2004 8:26 am
#13
Benora wrote:
PLZ DEV WAKE UP AND LISTEN TO PALYERS AND IF YOU NEED HELP FOR SOME SUGGESTIONS YOU KNOW WHERE TO CONTACT ME.
Yeah ok....
And thanks for the double post....
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