CUEmu - Thread Posts

TAfirehawk

Fri Mar 26, 2004 11:56 am

Nova asked me to write up a piece on the often discussed Speed/Damage topic.

The Actual Firing Speed calculation is:

[(100 - Player Mod) / 100] * Weapon Speed * Special Delay = Actual Speed

This equation works for all fighting professions. The Player Mod is from your Skill Sheet with bonuses up to +25 for attachments. A pure Master Carbineer get +60 and then you can add Master Marksman for +65 for a maximum of +85/+90 without any Bounty Hunter skills. The Weapon Speed comes directly from the Examine window of each weapon. The Special Delay is typically found in each profession's forum, which we have here of course, thanks to the Great Nova

For example, lets take an average Laser Carbine at 2.4 speed with 45-280 damage using BurstShot1 in the beginning stages of Carbineer, +35 Carbine Speed:

A) [(100 - 35) / 100] * 2.4 * 2.0 = 3.12 sec Actual Speed.

Now lets move up to Master Carbineer using CrippleShot with the same weapon:

B) [(100 - 60) / 100] * 2.4 * 2.5 = 2.40 sec Actual Speed.

Now throw in +20 attachments and we begin to see large improvements:

C) [(100 - 80) / 100] * 2.4 * 2.5 = 1.20 sec Actual Speed.

The progression to faster firing speed is not linear. This of course rewards the Master levels more but at the same time makes leveling more difficult. Also NOTE as of this writing all professions CAN NOT fire faster than once per second with any weapon using any special.

It is also important to discuss DPS, Damage Per Second:

The calculation is:

{[(Min Damage + Max Damage) / 2]* Special Damage Modifier} / Actual Firing Speed = DPS

The Min Damage and Max Damage are listed in the Examine window for each weapon with the the Weapon Speed number. The Special Damage Modifier should be listed with the Special Delay on each profession's forum. NOTE: careful attention must be paid to where the "Mysterious 1.5X" multiplier is added. As Carbineers we include the 1.5X into the Special Damage Modifier as Nova got the figures from ACTUAL in-game testing. But most other professions base the specials off the standard attack which is 1.5 * Weapon Damage.

Lets continue the above examples to calculate DPS.

A) {[(45 + 280) / 2]* 6.0} / 3.12 = 312.5 DPS

B) {[(45 + 280) / 2]* 7.5} /2.40 =507.8 DPS

C) {[(45 + 280) / 2]* 7.5} /1.20 =1015.6 DPS

As you can see, the Speed greatly affects the amount of damage you can expect to do on any given creature/person. Please remember there are other factors in the actual damage done; damage type of weapon, armor piercing of weapon, armor rating of target, resist % of target, to hit %, and your accuracy.

Comparison of Damage Slices vs. Speed Slices:

Lets continue on with the Laser Carbine above, that I listed with about a 30% speed slice. Now the actual data on this weapon will vary from server to server but for this math comparison it doesn't matter. It also does not matter if the Special Damage Modifier is used as it would just multiply each number by the same modifier. And the same goes for Actual Firing Speed (until the 1.0 Speed Cap is reached, but more on that later).

Unsliced Laser Carbine with 3.5 speed and 45 - 280 damage, which is [(45 + 280) / 2] / 3.5 = 46.4 DPS

1) 30% speed slice makes it 2.45 speed and 45 - 280 damage, which is 66.3 DPS

2) 30% damage slice makes it 3.5 speed and 58.5 - 364 damage, which is 60.4 DPS

From the data above, when the % of the slice is the same, Speed is a higher DPS than Damage. Powerups can also change what slice you want, but for the most part people don't keep their weapons powerup'd 100% of the time.

Now it is important to NOTE that when a player hits the 1.0 Speed Cap a speed slice will NOT improve the overall DPS.

Lets get into the 1.0 Speed Cap in more detail.

As of this writing all professions CAN NOT fire faster than once per second with any weapon using any special. For a Carbineer we don't have to worry about the Speed Cap until near or beyond Master, so lets look at capping our slowest specials with a Special Delay of 2.5

The calculation to find what weapon speed you hit the cap for is:

Actual Speed / [(100 - Player Mod) / 100] / Special Delay = Weapon Speed

Substitute Special Delay of 2.5 and Actual Speed for 1.0 - Cap Number as of this writing:

40 / (100 - Player Mod) = Weapon Speed to Cap CrippleShot/ScatterShot2/BurstShot2/WildShot2

For example:

I) Mid-level Carbineer with +40 Carbine Speed will need a 0.67 Weapon Speed to Cap

II) Master Carbineer with +60 Carbine Speed will need a 1.00 Weapon Speed to Cap

III) Master Carbineer and Master Marksman with +65 Carbine Speed will need a 1.14 Weapon Speed to Cap

IV) Master Carbineer and +10 Attachments with total +70 Carbine Speed will need a 1.33 Weapon Speed to Cap

V) Master Carbineer and +20 Attachments with total +80 Carbine Speed will need a 2.00 Weapon Speed to Cap

VI) Master Carbineer and Master Marksman and +25 Attachments with a total of +90 Carbine Speed will need a 4.00 Weapon Speed to Cap

Most Carbines are easy to find under 4.00 Weapon Speed so option VI) or lower will result in you firing EVERY Special once every second. You can also add in +Carbine Speed from Bounty Hunter for a +115 Carbine Speed without any Attachments, but as you can see above, going above +90 Carbine Speed has little effect.

Summary

Each character has different Skill Mods and Weapons so there is no single answer to "what is the best carbine?" But this information can be easily figured while at a Vendor sorting through stats on available Carbines. It is important to remember that a speed sliced weapon will out-damage an identical one sliced for damage, until you hit the 1.0 Speed Cap and then a damage slice is better.

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

DoctorCoryn

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:03 pm

#2

well done

/salute

-----------------------
Coryn Dularen (Shen)
Master Doctor, Master Carbineer
==Former HGate Chief Medical Officer==
Official Carbineer Motto: "Carbineer - Stunning crowds since Publish 7"

"The Irish MP's are NOT 'after me frosted lucky charms'"

novamarine

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:08 pm

#3

Thank you Firehawk

The FAQ is coming together nicely with each section written by a Master Carbineer who is also an expert in that particular topic.

TAfirehawk

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:12 pm

#4

novamarine wrote:

Thank you Firehawk

The FAQ is coming together nicely with each section written by a Master Carbineer who is also an expert in that particular topic.

Well I am an expert in my own mind, I will write some more......

Actually hoping to get input/feedback on what I wrote here. I can add/subtract pieces and parts if necessary.

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

novamarine

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:20 pm

#5

I think it is a really good explination of the issues and will be of value to novice and experts. I do not see any problems. I particularily like your use of both the formulas (for advanced readers) and examples (for gimme-the-answer-now readers). If I made changes it would be based on grammar and formatting merely to reflect my own personal writing style.

AriasImmortal

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:24 pm

#6

very nice. i'm up to +15 in speed now, so close to the cap with crippling

ARIAS TE'THAI

Master Swordsman|Elevator Wh0re

ECHUU|ECHUU-SHEN

Jedi Knight |Mandalorian Enforcer
Day One player/Pre-9 Jedi/PvP God. All gone. Canceled.

TAfirehawk

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:36 pm

#7

novamarine wrote:

I think it is a really good explination of the issues and will be of value to novice and experts. I do not see any problems. I particularily like your use of both the formulas (for advanced readers) and examples (for gimme-the-answer-now readers). If I made changes it would be based on grammar and formatting merely to reflect my own personal writing style.

Feel free to "doctor" (or CM ) it up all you want to read easier/better. I am an Engineer, not English major

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

imn4life

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:53 pm

#8

GOOD GOD, MAN!!!! YOU ARE A MONSTER!!!!!

Thanks TA for this. We have a 2 headed Master Correspondant pair in yourself and Nova. You guys ROCK!!!

TAfirehawk

Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:55 pm

#9

I would be a MONSTER if I could get my sig looking the way I want......

Grrrrrr

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

loudspeaker

Fri Mar 26, 2004 3:05 pm

#10

Is there a general list of damage/speed for each type of carbine? I realize that it can very greatly, but wondered if there was a ballpark on any of the weapons. Is this even possible? (as if you guys don't have enough to do already.:robotsad

Bender - Kauri

Master of Nothing

Bender

::Master Grinder::

FSCS Coming Soon

Protector of Itialian Virginity

Bane of Scum

EisMan_Buckeye

Fri Mar 26, 2004 5:38 pm

#11

Well done Iebas.

On a somewhat off-topic... Remember that XLS you put together for comparing your carbine's DPSs? ( I THINK it was you that made it) Well, I simply loved that, as I'm a number cruncher myself and like tweaking with things to see just what kind of DPS I can get. I took the liberty of making some changes to it to suit my personal liking, and was wondering if you would like to take a look at it and tell me what you think. Some of the changes I made were:

Small UI type changes such as font colors and highlights, to make it somewhat easier to read. Includes conditional formating to make the highest DPS special stand out.

A drop down box to choose the weapon's armor rating, so the user does not have to take the time to compute the AP multipliers.

A spinner button to easily adjust character speed mods (mainly for me to see what subtle changes in my skill attachments would do to DPS).

A ranking section on the summery page that ranks each of the 7 carbines in each of the 4 DPS categories.

Changed the values reported in the 2 PvP categories to report 25% of previous values, to hopefully better reflect in-game damage done (As I undertand it, damage in PvP is 25% of damage done in PvE vs. an equal target.)

Other small changes.

Let me know if you want to take a look, and I can PM you with an addy to DL it. If you approve, I'd love to post a link for all carbineers to DL if they so choose.

__________________________________________
EisMan Buckeye [COG]
Mercenaries do it for money
[Master of Carbines] [Retired Mercenary]
__________________________________________

TAfirehawk

Fri Mar 26, 2004 9:59 pm

#12

EisMan_Buckeye wrote:

Let me know if you want to take a look, and I can PM you with an addy to DL it. If you approve, I'd love to post a link for all carbineers to DL if they so choose.

Those sound like great changes/updates. It took long enough to get it going I didn't really polish like I could have, but that is what the rest of the community is for

I also have an updated Version 2 you may wish to look at as well at www.tafirehawk.com/GoA

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

TheBob

Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:39 pm

#13

Great job Firehawk. I just have one question:

With the formula

[(100 - Player Mod) / 100] * Weapon Speed * Special Delay = Actual Speed

is there a cap on Player Mod to prevent getting a negative speed?

Carbineer Archive

Thread: Carbine Speed/Damage Discussion for FAQ Review