Carbineer Archive
Thread: The Problem with Rifleman from a Carbineer
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Haywood
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:36 pm
#1
Gentleman if you do not think that your profession is seriously over powered then there is a problem.
Here is the very simple reason. THE SPEED EQUATION. We all know that the development team made a serious of poor choices when designing this game and did not listen fully to the BETA testers, if they did this game would comming out next month with JTL 4-5 months later.
If all the ranged professions are able to hit the speed cap of one shot per second how do you think it is balanced.
If I have the best Pistol (AP0) 1.0 speed, 200-500 damage what is my DPS.
If I have the best Laser Carbine (AP2) 1.0 speed 100-750 damage what is my DPS
If I have the best T21 (AP3) 1.0 speed ( feel free to put in your ammount here ) what is my DPS
I hope you can see the problem. Many people have asked for the RIFLEMAN profession to be SLOWER, either with a speed cap or an adjustment to the speed mods given for the profession. What suprises me the most is the RIFLEMAN community wants there damage increased if their speed is lowered.
Personally as a former Master Pistoleer, current Master Carbine, and a former Rifeman (did not master) I can say that the speed of Pistol is perfect. Speed of carbine is fair (+60 at master and with speed tapes a +85 will allowa Carbineer to hti the 1 second speed cap with a 2.8 second or faster weapon. The problem with Rifleman is you are able to get to +100 speed with only a few tapes, and for those that do not understand the speed equation, once you hit +100 speed you can fire any weapon you are certified to use at 1 second regardless of the speed of the weapon. So if you have a T-21 at 15 speed or +1000 speed you will still shoot at 1 second.
Please let me know how you think that your profession is not overpowered and I am not even discussing MIND damage. I will hold that one for later.
Haywood
Mon Aug 09, 2004 8:53 pm
#2
Repost from the Rifleman Forum let me know if you think I screwed up
Gentleman if you do not think that your profession is seriously over powered then there is a problem.
Here is the very simple reason. THE SPEED EQUATION. We all know that the development team made a serious of poor choices when designing this game and did not listen fully to the BETA testers, if they did this game would comming out next month with JTL 4-5 months later.
If all the ranged professions are able to hit the speed cap of one shot per second how do you think it is balanced.
If I have the best Pistol (AP0) 1.0 speed, 200-500 damage what is my DPS.
If I have the best Laser Carbine (AP2) 1.0 speed 100-750 damage what is my DPS
If I have the best T21 (AP3) 1.0 speed ( feel free to put in your ammount here ) what is my DPS
I hope you can see the problem. Many people have asked for the RIFLEMAN profession to be SLOWER, either with a speed cap or an adjustment to the speed mods given for the profession. What suprises me the most is the RIFLEMAN community wants there damage increased if their speed is lowered.
Personally as a former Master Pistoleer, current Master Carbine, and a former Rifeman (did not master) I can say that the speed of Pistol is perfect. Speed of carbine is fair (+60 at master and with speed tapes a +85 will allowa Carbineer to hti the 1 second speed cap with a 2.8 second or faster weapon. The problem with Rifleman is you are able to get to +100 speed with only a few tapes, and for those that do not understand the speed equation, once you hit +100 speed you can fire any weapon you are certified to use at 1 second regardless of the speed of the weapon. So if you have a T-21 at 15 speed or +1000 speed you will still shoot at 1 second.
Please let me know how you think thatRifleman is not overpowered and I am not even discussing MIND damage. I will hold that one for later.
marthpodi
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:28 pm
#4
I think the difference is in the level of difficulty in achieving this speed cap. I don't know about you other rifleman, but I have no where near the amount of capital I'd need to get enough tapes to hit the cap. I believe, though I could be wrong, that its much easier for pistoleers and carbineers to hit the speed cap - as it should be. That said, I am not denying that Carbineer is quite broken and needs to be reworked. Also, the high power of rifles are mitigated by the low defenses of the rifleman.
Just my take,
marthpodi
Just my take,
marthpodi
Zarchad
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:51 pm
#5
He he yes, the rifleman is seriously overpowered, I should know, I was a master rifleman for 5 months.
With the AP 3 resistance didnt matter much untill it got over 70%, I could still produce a decent dps against higher resistance.
The only thing a rifleman truly fear is melee professions, but ranged? Never. :/
RebRifle
Mon Aug 09, 2004 9:59 pm
#6
Haywood wrote:Gentleman if you do not think that your profession is seriously over powered then there is a problem.Here is the very simple reason. THE SPEED EQUATION. We all know that the development team made a serious of poor choices when designing this game and did not listen fully to the BETA testers, if they did this game would comming out next month with JTL 4-5 months later.If all the ranged professions are able to hit the speed cap of one shot per second how do you think it is balanced.If I have the best Pistol (AP0) 1.0 speed, 200-500 damage what is my DPS.If I have the best Laser Carbine (AP2) 1.0 speed 100-750 damage what is my DPSIf I have the best T21 (AP3) 1.0 speed ( feel free to put in your ammount here ) what is my DPSI hope you can see the problem. Many people have asked for the RIFLEMAN profession to be SLOWER, either with a speed cap or an adjustment to the speed mods given for the profession. What suprises me the most is the RIFLEMAN community wants there damage increased if their speed is lowered.Personally as a former Master Pistoleer, current Master Carbine, and a former Rifeman (did not master) I can say that the speed of Pistol is perfect. Speed of carbine is fair (+60 at master and with speed tapes a +85 will allow a Carbineer to hti the 1 second speed cap with a 2.8 second or faster weapon. The problem with Rifleman is you are able to get to +100 speed with only a few tapes, and for those that do not understand the speed equation, once you hit +100 speed you can fire any weapon you are certified to use at 1 second regardless of the speed of the weapon. So if you have a T-21 at 15 speed or +1000 speed you will still shoot at 1 second.Please let me know how you think that your profession is not overpowered and I am not even discussing MIND damage. I will hold that one for later.
Bam right there number one we got a speed that high because our weaponds have that high speed and every profession can fire there weapond at master at one second in standered fire. Now infact master rifleman cannot use there specal at one sec with a master rifle well maybe hs2 hs3 i around 1.5-1.8, straf 2 is 2.5-3, and the flushing and starle like 2. Yes we can reach the cap easier then any other profession well because we are closer but now look at the cost of our speed tapes 20 million per? Thats the going rate.
Haywood
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:05 pm
#7
RebRifle wrote
Yes we can reach the cap easier then any other profession well because we are closer but now look at the cost of our speed tapes 20 million per? Thats the going rate.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
On intrepid Rifleman Speed tapes are not nearly that expensive. Try to purchase +25 speed like a Carbineer needs to and then we are talking some money. To give you an idea on Intrepid I spend 3 million to get +25 carbine speed, +20 accuracy, +22 cabine Accuracy while moving and +15 Carbine aiming, plus some defences +5 total counterattack.
The facts are still there a Master Carbine is +60 speed at mater and a Rifleman is +90. Which one can reach the speed cap regardless of Weapon speed. The answer is the Rifleman, since one can only have +25 to any skill with mods. I am not including BH in this since it is stupid to need another profession so that yours will work. (this is the same as a pistoleer needs BH or Smuggler and a Carbineer really needs the BH line of Carbs.
Message Edited by Haywood on 08-09-2004 10:09 PM
T-Bone78
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:11 pm
#8
Yeah and on kauri a ubesse shirt with Rifle mods of +5 speed +5 accuracy sells in a buy out for 10 mil. Rifle/swordsman tapes from what i've seen are just as expensive if not more expensive than crafter exp tapes.
Haywood wrote:
RebRifle wrote
Yes we can reach the cap easier then any other profession well because we are closer but now look at the cost of our speed tapes 20 million per? Thats the going rate.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
On intrepid Rifleman Speed tapes are not nearly that expensive. Try to purchase +25 speed like a Carbineer needs to and then we are talking some money. To give you an idea on Intrepid I spend 3 million to get +25 carbine speed, +20 accuracy, +22 cabine Accuracy while moving and +15 Carbine aiming, plus some defences +5 total counterattack.
The facts are still there a Master Carbine is +60 speed at mater and a Rifleman is +90. Which one can reach the speed cap regardless of Weapon speed. The answer is the Rifleman, since one can only have +25 to any skill with mods. I am not including BH in this since it is stupid to need another profession so that yours will work. (this is the same as a pistoleer needs BH or Smuggler and a Carbineer really needs the BH line of Carbs.
Message Edited by Haywood on 08-09-2004 10:09 PM
RebRifle
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:12 pm
#9
Ya i don't wanna right it again so i just gonna link it from his other post on the rifleman forum http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=73057
T-Bone78
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:12 pm
#10
Oh yeah and your real problemlies with the chef proffession take it to their boards.
RebRifle
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:13 pm
#11
ya and i don't got master mark so it takes me 20 mil. Thus my price.
Haywood
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:20 pm
#12
Oh yeah and your real problemlies with the chef proffession take it to their boards.
T-Bone78 not sure what that means. I could use a little help. Please let me know why you think that if all three professions can shoot at 1 per second that one is not balanced.
If all three professions are capable of shooting at the same rate (carbine can only do this with a 2.8 or slower speed weapon or by haveing the Bounty Hunter Carbine Tree) then it would it is a fact that there is an imblance. I would say that an imbalance would mean that one is more powerful than the others. We know that Riflemand Has the Highest DPS which means it is the greatest imbalance and should be decreased in damage output. You could also say that the Pistoleer is far to underpowered which would mean that Carbine and Pistol would need an increase in Damage.
/flame away and bring your facts.
T-Bone78
Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:23 pm
#13
You forgot that there was such a thing as ham cost. 180 mind per shot at 1 second leaves me with no mind. With the chef revamp all ham costs are no longer important. That's what made rifleman extremly overpowered and FoTM.
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