Carbineer Archive

First off lets start with the skill mods.

Carbineer gets +55 to Carbine Speed/ Bounty Hunter gets +75 to Carbine Speed (Both Maxed out)

Carbineer gets +95 to Carbine Accurcy/ Bounty Hunter gets +110 to Carbine Accurcy (Both Maxed out)

Carbineer gets +30 to Carbine Accurcy While Moving/ Bounty Hunter gets nothing (Both Maxed out)

Carbineer gets +4 to Carbine Aiming/ Bounty Hunter gets nothing (Both maxed out)

Now then we have all been in PvP in this game right?!?

You know who ever gets the firstshot is going to win becuase the person that gets that first shot is going to spam that knockdown or shot that keeps you from fireing. So With a bounty hunter haveing a +75 to Carbine speed and a Carbineer only having a +55 whos going to get that first shot? The Bounty Hunter game over for the Carbineer.

Example:

Bounty Hunter vs. A 1,1,2,1 Carbineer, 3,0,1,4 Creature Handler.

We both start out the fight I have two pets out hes useing his carbine. I tell my pets to attack and before my pets even hit him i'm incaped. He keeps on useing knockdown on my 9000 hitpoint pets till their incaped. He barly has a scratch on him.

Now Some people say Creatuer Handler needs to be nerfed? I think not the true Skill that needs to be nerfed is Bounty Hunter.

"Now Some people say Creatuer Handler needs to be nerfed? I think not the true Skill that needs to be nerfed is Bounty Hunter."

This just tells me you got pwned by a BH. Get over it. It will not be nerfed.

Though I can guarantee stupid people like you will be ignored. There's something to look forward to from the Dev's.

Carbineer is gettng revamped. Look at Pistoleer and BH pistols.

Pistoleer has FAR superior amounts of defense bonuses compared to the 0 of BH.

Carbineer also has more defense bonuses then BH.

Also Remember, Carbineer novice is only 35 points

BH novice is 160 points.

Large amount of differnece in points.

BH has gotten nerfed, our knockdown and underhand have been hit badly, pistol side probably get nerfed too i dont doubt.

"This just tells me you got pwned by a BH. Get over it. It will not be nerfed."

No I'm saying that with two High level pets out a Bounty hunter was able to kill me. No your wrong this is going to be nerfed. Now then I ask you 3v1 you would think that a trained Carbineer and trained Creature handler that can call 2 pets could take a bounty hunter? And must I remind you this is before the big Creature Hanlder nerf?

"This just tells me you got pwned by a BH. Get over it. It will not be nerfed."

O and I would like to add people got killed by creature handlers rancors and posted nicely on the fourm about it and that got nerfed. So your going to have to deal with your skills hiting the trash.

i think people are really missing the point around here. its not to nerf BH, it to ehance it so it plays better with other professions and makes it more useful than the "im just taking it for the bonuses to speed and accuracy" syndrome. I really think the pre-reqs for BH should be changed and master carbineer or pistoleer be one of them. if that were the case, the BH could have special bonuses reducing armor ham costs, special droid certs, special moves, etc that build upon the marksmanship skills that i think should really be left in the carbineer/pistoleer tree where they belong. something like that give carbineers credit for their work but also give BH the destinct advantage that they would deserve for all their work. most people ive met doing BH are simply doing for the skill mods and nothing else.....i dont think thats the way the devs intended the profession to end up like.

And for the skill points. A bounty hunter only has to put in 43 points into carbine skills to begood with the carbine. A Carbineer has to put in 93 to master Carbineer. Now 1/2 of the bounty hunter skill is non combat so take 63 points away. Lets see it takes more XP to get skill boxes in Carbineer to get Carbine moves and half the attacks don't work right.

If your going to fight that they give up more skill points to be better with weapons. Then I say

43 Bounty Hunter for Kick ass Carbine attacks and less Carbine XP to get those attacks

To 93 Skill points Carbineer with nefred and buged attacks and a lot more xp just to get those attacks

Thats the point a Carbineer should be better at useing carbines than a Bounty hunter. Why? Because theirs a whole skill track called: Carbineer. And Carbineers are spose to be good with carbines... wow!

look sir a novice bounty hunter! Dang us master Carbineers better run or we will get owned.

if you look at it in tiers, i think it just kinda makes sense.

right now as far as weapon skills go, it basically goes from marksman to carbineer OR bounty hunter. to me, it only seems natural that it would go marksman to carbineer then once youve mastered the core weaponskill of cchoice, then onto BH where the extra abilities really put you over the top in combat abilities. i think BH should be over proficient in pvp than a carbineer, but i think they should have more useful abilities than just mods to speed and accuracy and a system like this makes someone who has BH really work for it.

btw, im a BH with BH carbine 1-3 and carbineer with the entire first 2 tiers so its not like im talking about something i know nothing about.

sehkmahBH I fully agree that they should revamp the BH stuff so that the prereqs are different and so that the BH is "intended" to take an advanced combat, leaving the skill mods currently in BH to the advanced marksman profession where, as you say "they should be."

However, I think that rather than requiring a BH to master the advanced marksman profession as a PREREQ as you stated (which is kind of messed up, since a novice BH would then be just as deadly as a master due ot prereqs already having him master his combat profession), a better solution would be to knock the master marksman prereq down to just ranged support specialist. This frees up enough points to master BH and master an advanced marksman, and a character could in fact achieve the two lines that give bonuses up to 4th tier and master BH for a couple fewer points than he canunder the current system.

This way, assuming a BH's marks scale up appropriately in difficulty, you can take novice BH before becoming the best you'll ever be in combat, and work your way up the two, simultaneously getting tougher marks as you get more deadly.

Now, what should the pistol and carbine lines in BH be replaced with? Well, give them a couple moves in one line (ala the dirty fighting line -- I personally think that the implementation of smuggler is brilliant as a complement to fighting classes, and wish there were more such complementary combat professions to give pure combatants even more variety by mixing and matching a weapon with a "style"of combat-- shock troopers, anybody?), and then add a line for humanoid traps. This great scout line has no humanoid equivalent, despite making sense as a bounty hunter feature (remember all of Boba Fett's nifty gizmoes? The auto-wrapping cord, the Ep. 2 darts, etc..), and could really give them a unique flavor and a bit of extra edge in their esteemed one-on-one combat.

Anyways, just my humble input to the debate that pops up often.

See, Personaly I think that carbineers and pistoleers should be better with their respective weapons. You have to consider that carbineers and pistoleers only get one type of weapon. BH have access to 3 different types, including a class specific weapon. To even get Two weapon types would cost the same anouth of points and still return subpar performance when compared to the BH.

i think kaffis makes a good point.

so then novice BH would reqire maybe lets say master marksman, scout survival 1-4, then the combat xp tree 1-4of either carbineer or pistoleer then novice BH would be available?

firenavigator: BH should be superior to master carbineer or master pistoleer, the problem right now is that they can bypass them. this way they would have to go through them to reach BH. i mean, i think BH should just be another further step up into combat proficiency from carbineer or pistoleer.

personally, id really like to see a tree in the BH profession deal with lowering HAM usage costs on armor as armor is such a big thing to a BH youd think they would learn how to work within it to a high degree.

Keigi,

To this day it amazes me the amount of people who think that this entire game revolves around PvP... Getting to the topic of "Why Become a Carbineer when you can be a bounty Hunter?", why did (or would)you become a Bounty Hunter? Was it to actually go hunt down marks, or was it just because you wanted to play a lot of PvP? If you wanted to play a BH to actuallybe a BH, I can totally understand that. If you wanted to be a BH for the SOLE PURPOSE OF DOING PvP, guess what; I can actually understand that too. Don't take this is a flame or a dig on you, I really can understand your point of view.

What I CAN'T understand is why everyone thinks that you HAVE to do something that is good for PvP. If EVERYONE had your mindset, and thought this entire game revolved around PvP, ummm.... Where would you get your armor? Or weapons? Or healing? Or, or, or, or... the list goes on.

Ok, to stay on topic, here are a few possible reasons:

1. Umm... Maybe I don't WANT to be a bounty hunter? Some of us are not lemmings and do NOT follow the majority of the fanboys out there. I know that answer may shock you, but I assure you it is true nonetheless.

2. Maybe I feel that having 33 pts left over isn't enough to make a well balanced character. If you have found a way to make a very well balanced character with your extra 33 points, please let us know.

3. (brace yourself for this one) Some of us don't like to PvP and could care less!!! I know that may be hard to understand, but it is true. Again, this is not a flame, so do not take it as such. But for you, or anyone out there really, who believes that the majority of the people playing SWG purchased the game for the sole purpose of PvP and are building characters to best do that....I would simply suggest that you actually read the forums more.If you did that you find out *gasp!* that MOST people do NOT care for PvP who play SWG. Again, I am sorry if I have shattered your vision of what you think SWG is. However comma, I could not live with myself if I let you go on believing that everyone you see in every town and in every corner is just waiting for the day when they can duel with you for a little PvP action. Getting back on topic...

4. Extra firepower... I know medics who pick up Carbineer for some firepower, not because they want to pwn PvP. I play a Ranger and I picked up Carbineer for the same reason. A good friend of mine plays a Armorsmith, and oddly enough he too picked up Carbineer because he wanted a little extra firepower on those long survey trips into the wild. I know this is going to blow your mind, but I know a dancer that also picked up carbineer for a little extra oomph on those slow week nights in the Cantina.

I have not posted much here, but I read these forums all the time. I had intended on keeping this post objective and on topic. After rethinking this, I have changed my mind.

/flame Actually, I am pretty sick of BH lemmings comming in the Carbineer forum and preaching how they are better than everyone else. To those immature individuals I would say that from reading most of everything posted in the Carbineer forums, most of us could care less WHAT you think! You are a BH, good for you. You can pwn everyone in PvP so you are better than everyone, good for you. Go back to your own little world where you think that the majority of everyone in SWG wants to duel you. Spam your own community. I have noticed that the Carbineer forum has actually been very helpful and positive community, dedicated toputting forththe effort and inputto try and get this profession back on the right track. I like that about the Carbineer forum. Your post has nothing to do with getting this profession fixed, and IMO is not worthwhile reading as far as being a Carbineer is concerned to me. /flame

"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."