Carbineer Archive

I keep seeing this repeated all over the board...that the only shot people use is cripple, and that no other specials are worth using.

Just this weekend I ran with a Novice Carbineer who was spamming cripple and almost killing himself because he was a trandoshan with low quickness. I pointed out that scattershot2 and burstshot2 have smaller HAM costs, fire faster, and still do roughly the same damage. He tried using them and was very satisfied with the results. I know that some people don't like scatter because of the way it hits multiple pools, but burst doesn't do that and fires essentially the same as scatter.

I'm not really certain why you would want to use Crippleshot constantly because the delay modifier is so huge. I can fire 2x with nearly the same damage as Cripple for every crippleshot...what am I missing? Is there some extrodinarily worthwhile effect that cripple does that I've never noticed? I seriously don't use cripple shot because I don't like the added delay it causes.

I'm using a 2.5 spd laser carbine (speed sliced) so I'm at the speed cap already. Any loss to my speed is imminently noticeable, and cripple totally reduces my firing rate without an appreciable increase to my damage (could be because I'm not getting max hits with the carbine, but hey...).

Am I missing something wonderful with cripple? Or what? Or is the community in general looking at the dmg mulitplier and deciding thats the best shot based on that alone, and ignoring the delay effect?

-Gravaar

Eclipse server...Master Carbineer/Novice CH/Novice medic

i too am curious why cripple is so highly thought of. i'm also curious why many people think that it should do action damage. i don't believe it says ''action pool'' anywhere in the move description. some people have said that it is in the ''action damage tree'' which is just a silly argument. sharpshooter and gunfighter both have moves that are not mind/health specific in the trees that contain headshot3 and bodyshot3, so why would carb be any different? further, if it did do action only damage, wouldn't it just be legshot4?

i haven't used cripple yet (50k xp to go still) so i myself am eager to see what the buzz is all about.

Hey Gravaar,

Without having BH, I think that Burst Shot 1 is a wonderful skill. It's costs are pretty low and somewhat compareable damage to crippling shot but it's faster. Scatter 2, I usually have some pretty bad luck with that skill and I can't seem to like it over Burst Shot. From what I've seen, though, Scatter 2's modifier is right up there with Crippling Shot, but with damage spread.

However, what I think the big deal with Crippling Shot is, with the speed cap hit (from BH) you can fire it every second. You could get doctor buffs and bring it down so that it uses little mind every shot as well. With the speed cap hit, crippling shot is hard to beat for it's damage and PVP action wounds. Also, especially with chargeshot, you have the best chance of hitting an opponent with high damage and possibly one shotting them.

I agree with everything SOJ said...

Just to add a bit....burstshot itself isnt almost as good....it does 5x damage....cripple does 7.5x. That is considerably more damage from cripple.

So, provided you meet the speed requirements that SOJ discussed, cripple will do more damage. Another question to ask, which is better with respect to HAM? I know when I tested, I could fire cripple 11 times from a full pool and cripple 16-18 (I cant remember). In essence, it was balanced perfect between the 2 - since cripple does 1.5 as much damage, I fired 1.5 times as many shots of burstshot from a full HAM bar. This means that burst is not better on HAM since you have to fire it 1.5 times for every 1 cripple and the HAM cost after firing cripple once and burst 1.5 is the same.

So this brings up the 2 considerations that made me decide on cripple. I have good medic skills and when I engage something, I typically fire until I cant anymore then heal which will heal me to full. If I do this with burst, I will run out of action and health at the same time. Doing this with cripple will drain my action and leave me with ~75% of my health. When you are draining yourself low, it is important to consider you are very vulnerable right before you are healed. In the cast of, burst I had no health and 55% of hits hit health. This makes doing this type if fire-heal-fire very dangerous with burst. Doing it with cripple is still dangerous, though you are playing odds that if you are hit, it will hit your health. This also means you can lower your HAM cost of cripple by adjusting quickness alone...with burst you have to adjust quickness and strength.

Second, knockdowns. When knockdowned, a target takes an extra 50% damage. In addtion,the mob is only down for enough time to get 2 shots in. I think its farily obvious that during this period you want to be hitting with your biggest baddest shot...crippleshot.

This is why I use crippleshot exclusively. I do use fullautosingle on very dangerous mobs to start with but that is to get stun and blind. As soon as those states are on the mob, knockdown, then cripple.

Side by side comparison, BurstShot1 beats CripplingShot any day of the week, twice on Sundays. Last night, me and a pair of guildmates were mowing down grauls of all types last night on Dantooine and BurstShot1 was the attack of choice for me. It's barely more than half the HAM of CripplingShot and the rate of fire thoroughly balances the lesser level of damage. I can tick off BurstShots right at the speed cap limit and CripplingShot almost doubles the cycling time of my weapon. The only time I used another shot was against Frenzied Grauls when I used ChargeShot1 to keep the damned things from eating our pets (a just tamed graul mauler anda half grown graul mauler for me, and three Greater Sludge Panthers for my partner).

So, again, in case you were not paying attention to SOJ, (stares at Rorenikibi), burstshot is better if you have no speed boosts or very low speed boosts.

Otherwise, crippleshot does considerably more damage. 7.5 vs 5....so it does 1.5 times as much damage or 50% more damage.

Does anyone know the exact delay modifiers to thes shots?

-Ribbit

So, from what SOJ provided, cripple is only top dog IF you have the BH speed line (or, like a hunting friend of mine have a +25 carbine speed skill mod tape).

I advance the idea, then, that given a speed capped Master Carbineer wielding a 2.5 speed carbine gets better dmg efficiency overall from burstshot2 or scatter2 than from cripple, with cripple being a situational use high dmg shot (like to finish off a "running" enemy, or when mobs are KD).

Thatsmore like what I've experienced so far.

-Gravaar

Even w/o BH speed it has a use. Keep in mind the KD damage modifier. During a KD, you want big damage hits in.

KD > Burst > Cripple will beat out KD > Burst > Burst (all followed by bursts) since you will be getting big damage during the knockdown. Remember, the KD boost is 50%. Thats 1500 instead of 1000 or 3000 instead of 2000.

It is also a good finisher. The delay doesn't kick in until after you fire.

I was paying close attention. BurstShot is stilla better killer even with full speed boosting and is still BETTER thantwo times faster than CripplingShot on the same carbine. Been there,done that, have the T-shirt.

Think about your logic this way:

1 shot at 7.5x normal damage or 2 shots at 5x normal damage. Rate of fire wins every time.

very informative guys, thank you

no, burstshot is only good in a short fight, cripple does way better on mobs with high ham, cripple in long run will beat burst.

Cripple is indeed the short fight tactic, high ham enimies save Burst Shot for. Its been said already in this thread, but my combo in PVPis WildShot+ChargeShot+Cripple=Target dead Wild and charge will do around 500 damage to them alone, then cripple usually hits a knocked down target for 800-1000 points of damage. AND if I use my uber slow but hihgly powerful laser carbine I've hit a knockd down target with cripple for 1200 points of damage. Burst shot cannot compare to that.

I now use a Stock Laser carbine that has a damage slice. Its reletively low end as I got a crappy slice on it, its stats are (powerd up) 104-354 damage 2.6 speed. If I had gotten a better damage slice it'd be hitting for around 104-400 with that 2.6 speed when powered up. This weapon I Have found to be the true elite carbine.