Carbineer Archive
Thread: A new Carbineer, I got a ???
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Dust-Mite
Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:54 pm
#1
While I was a BH I read a lot of posts saying that a BH focusing on pistols is pve friendly, while a BH focusing on carbines is pvp friendly. Would this mean that a Master Carbineer is pvp friendly while a Master Pistoleer is pve friendly? Or is that just the rule of thumb while a BH?
galvatronicus
Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:14 pm
#2
Bounty hunters say a lot of crazy things, I think the pistoleers get that tag from certain people because they have more damage types than we do, while we get the PvP tag because we have the AP2 weapon. Personally I just think bounty hunters are insane, but thats just my opinion.
AdmiralSpy
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:49 pm
#4
In high-end PvE, Pistoleers have a wide selection of weapon types and have EyeShot, a mind specific attack. They're not the best though. A carbineer really only has Energy, Acid or Heat, but the AP2 on the Laser Carbine is nice against Elders, for example. No mind-specific damage though. I'd put Pistoleer and Carbineer on the same level.
In middle-end PvE, a Carbineer is stronger than a Pistoleer due to states and posture changes as well as area attacks actually working.
In high-end PvP, BH/Carbineer has the advantage of states and posture changes that work if used smartly, but these are uneffective against Jedi or defense-stackers. No mind-specific hit. Pistoleers again have EyeShot, but they lack the "punch".. though they do have a Stun Weapon (Geo pistol) and a nice DE-10 is a sweet weapon.
Neither is "better", it all depends on the situation. Pistoleers do suffer from general damage issues, but they have great defenses, whereas a Carbineer has none.
In middle-end PvP.. wait.. there's no such thing. 
weaponmaster88
Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:20 pm
#5
well i was thinking about going pistoleer a while back so i asked the pistoleers what they thought was better for PvE... out of the 15 so replys, everyone of them said carbineer was better in PvE
TAfirehawk
Fri Jan 28, 2005 9:26 am
#6
Of course you all should really look at the numbers.....using 92 Skill Points:
***Multiple Target - Single Target - Pool Specific Specials Comparison***
Weapons taken from most recent build from Chilastra's top Weaponsmith and 25% Damage Sliced against AP0 and 0% resist target.
Master Carbineer with +60 Speed
Laser 3.3 speed and 55/354 damage
BurstShot2 (cone)= 581 DPS
FullAutoSingle2 (single)= 790 DPS
LegShot3 (action) = 484 DPS
Master Pistoleer with +74 Speed
Republic 2.4 speed and 86/266 damage
FanShot (cone) = 881 DPS
PointBlankSingle2 (single) = 852 DPS
HealthShot2 (health)= 835 DPS
Master Rifleman with +90 Speed
T-21 6.9 speed and 169/461 damage
StrafeShot2 (cone) = 2058 DPS
StrafeShot1 (single) = 1338 DPS
HeadShot3 (mind) = 2006 DPS
galvatronicus
Fri Jan 28, 2005 10:38 am
#7
At least our defenses make up for the lack of offensive output though huh?
sknomad
Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:30 pm
#8
having been a bh/pistoleer in the past I can tell you the shortcomings of it.. You get 0 state effects, and your highest damage special in pvp will do about 250 dmg (with a 220 dmg pistol) vs a jedi. (assuming you get past their saber block 
).
the reason bh say what they do is because carbs have the ability to inflict multiple state effects in 1 shot, and a couple (of the bh specials) are ranged kd's.
I'm sure you know from pvp, that the person that kd's the most generally wins (free attacks/damage). Pistoleers get 1 kd (pmd1) that is about an inch away from being useless in pvp - you can't even kd mid range pve content with it. It's about as effective as lunge1 for melee profs.
plus, carbineers get crippling shot, which is a pretty nice special, and can really chew through opponents who don't have ranged mitigation (again, for jedi, this is assuming you get past the block).
I'm not sure states pass through the block or not, but I have been told they do, and the states have the effect of lowering the block % of a jedi. therefore, a carbineer is automatically the better jedi hunter than pistoleer from an offense point of view. The only things pistoleers have going for them really are their high state defenses (they have 2 bleeds that are pretty much negated by buffs) - bh fire (nice) bleeding shot (nice) and eyeshot (nice).
while carbs can inflict all the states (that lower block %), and do kd's in 1 shot (nicer).
this of course is based on the fact that 9/12 of the pistoleer specials are broken or futile to use.
).the reason bh say what they do is because carbs have the ability to inflict multiple state effects in 1 shot, and a couple (of the bh specials) are ranged kd's.
I'm sure you know from pvp, that the person that kd's the most generally wins (free attacks/damage). Pistoleers get 1 kd (pmd1) that is about an inch away from being useless in pvp - you can't even kd mid range pve content with it. It's about as effective as lunge1 for melee profs.
plus, carbineers get crippling shot, which is a pretty nice special, and can really chew through opponents who don't have ranged mitigation (again, for jedi, this is assuming you get past the block).
I'm not sure states pass through the block or not, but I have been told they do, and the states have the effect of lowering the block % of a jedi. therefore, a carbineer is automatically the better jedi hunter than pistoleer from an offense point of view. The only things pistoleers have going for them really are their high state defenses (they have 2 bleeds that are pretty much negated by buffs) - bh fire (nice) bleeding shot (nice) and eyeshot (nice).
while carbs can inflict all the states (that lower block %), and do kd's in 1 shot (nicer).
this of course is based on the fact that 9/12 of the pistoleer specials are broken or futile to use.
TAfirehawk
Fri Jan 28, 2005 12:43 pm
#9
Lets not cry about how "broken" Pistoleer is.....
If we classified "broken" Specials like that we would only have 4 working and 10 "broken".....
And a BH/Pistoleer should have State Defenses from XX4X Pistoleer.....
sknomad
Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:59 pm
#10
TAfirehawk wrote:Lets not cry about how "broken" Pistoleer is.....If we classified "broken" Specials like that we would only have 4 working and 10 "broken".....And a BH/Pistoleer should have State Defenses from XX4X Pistoleer.....
I wasn't crying about it.. I was answering the guy's question. grow up
and yes, a bh/pistoleer has the state DEFENSES from pistoleer 0040, but those don't help you get past saber block, since they are defenses, not offensive attacks.
Message Edited by sknomad on 01-28-2005 04:01 PM
wilibus
Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:59 am
#11
galvatronicus wrote:At least our defenses make up for the lack of offensive output though huh?
worst joke ever ...
AdmiralSpy
Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:37 pm
#12
sknomad wrote:
and yes, a bh/pistoleer has the state DEFENSES from pistoleer 0040, but those don't help you get past saber block, since they are defenses, not offensive attacks.
True enough, but Pistol Techniques is by far the "best value" for defenses in terms of cost of skillpoints. All true-stackers have it, even if theyre "pure melee", and even the +40/50 to the stats, while alone not enough to make you impermeable to those states, go a long way in aiding when coupled with other professions.
Nothing really gets past saber-block, not even accuracy.
sknomad
Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:32 am
#13
well that was my point.. if the states can get past saber block, they have the ability to lower it (I heard stun and dizzy lower it). If they do infact lower it, then a carbine bh has a much better chance of taking out a jedi than a pistoleer, regardless of defenses.
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