Carbineer Archive
Thread: Balancing out Ranged Combat
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KardenTyrell
Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:54 am
#1
There will be balance issues between all ranged weaponry, for as long they will have the limited amount of options of distinctions. I'de suggest adding3 new things to the combat system.
Stamina.
The action bar represents your ability to perform actions in physical form. In addition that specials substract from this amount, physical movement will now too.
Terrain negotiation negates the penalty of action, running over hills
Walking No action lost
Running Expends 0.2% action per second (Run a full 8 minutes with action)
SprintingBurstrunning will expend your whole action bar in 1 minute.
Swimming Full action bar depletes in 15 minutes (risk of cramp and drowning)
Jumping If we ever get a working hoizontal jumping option wich has a use, included.
Climbing If we ever get a working climbing system included for steep hills/mountains, included
Depleting youraction to exaustion will force your character to catch his breath and recover at a slower rate then normal for a short amount of time.
Weight
Each weapon and armor has a certain amount of weight wich will increase your penalty of action usage when doing physical tasks as described above. The heavier equipment you wear/carry ...the more action you'll spend.
A Shocktrooper in full armoured gear and carrying a rocketlauncher will tire more quickly then a normal clothed pistoleer.
A d18 pistol is significantly lighter then a T21, and has a negligable penalty.
Ammo
A Standard powercell has enough for 100 normally charged shots.
Depending on the weaponry, one can load up a multiple amount of powercells into a weapon. Generally larger, or automatic weaponry can store more of them...but due to damage output, they spend them more quickly, then a normally powered pistol. (The DL88 for instance is a higher charged pistol, wich expends ammo more quickly).
powercells are crafted and loaded up into your weaponry.
Militairy bases have the option to charge your weaponry to full standard amount of power at the power terminals.
Misc
Misc features wich could help the balancing course.
Flatter/smaller weaponry is easier to hide, or allows you to create smaller profile to shoot from, good for hiding behind cover and shooting from it.
Message Edited by KardenTyrell on 07-03-2005 06:56 PM
KardenTyrell
Sun Jul 03, 2005 9:57 am
#2
There will be balance issues between all ranged weaponry, for as long they will have the limited amount of options of distinctions. I'de suggest adding3 new things to the combat system.
Stamina.
The action bar represents your ability to perform actions in physical form. In addition that specials substract from this amount, physical movement will now too.
Terrain negotiation negates the penalty of action, running over hills
Walking No action lost
Running Expends 0.2% action per second (Run a full 8 minutes with action)
SprintingBurstrunning will expend your whole action bar in 1 minute.
Swimming Full action bar depletes in 15 minutes (risk of cramp and drowning)
Jumping If we ever get a working hoizontal jumping option wich has a use, included.
Climbing If we ever get a working climbing system included for steep hills/mountains, included
Depleting youraction to exaustion will force your character to catch his breath and recover at a slower rate then normal for a short amount of time.
Weight
Each weapon and armor has a certain amount of weight wich will increase your penalty of action usage when doing physical tasks as described above. The heavier equipment you wear/carry ...the more action you'll spend.
A Shocktrooper in full armoured gear and carrying a rocketlauncher will tire more quickly then a normal clothed pistoleer.
A d18 pistol is significantly lighter then a T21, and has a negligable penalty.
Ammo
A Standard powercell has enough for 100 normally charged shots.
Depending on the weaponry, one can load up a multiple amount of powercells into a weapon. Generally larger, or automatic weaponry can store more of them...but due to damage output, they spend them more quickly, then a normally powered pistol. (The DL88 for instance is a higher charged pistol, wich expends ammo more quickly).
powercells are crafted and loaded up into your weaponry.
Militairy bases have the option to charge your weaponry to full standard amount of power at the power terminals.
Misc
Misc features wich could help the balancing course.
Flatter/smaller weaponry is easier to hide, or allows you to create smaller profile to shoot from, good for hiding behind cover and shooting from it.
Adval
Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:20 am
#3
So basicly a new CU? No thanks...
So you mean running would cost action? Seriously, who else than roleplayers (yes, I understand you're one) walks most of the time?
KardenTyrell wrote:
Running Expends 0.2% action per second (Run a full 8 minutes with action)
Ammo
A Standard powercell has enough for 100 normally charged shots.
Depending on the weaponry, one can load up a multiple amount of powercells into a weapon. Generally larger, or automatic weaponry can store more of them...but due to damage output, they spend them more quickly, then a normally powered pistol. (The DL88 for instance is a higher charged pistol, wich expends ammo more quickly).
powercells are crafted and loaded up into your weaponry.
Militairy bases have the option to charge your weaponry to full standard amount of power at the power terminals.
As for ammo... You couldn't grind, hunt nor kill anything without either having to buy powercells every few minutes or placing a base next to you. Not would this only make combat professions even more costy, it would make it harder for new players to climb up the branches. And it's pretty annoying if you got a pack of bols/pikets/gurks/[insert any animal here] on you and suddenly everyone's "oh sorry... I'm out of ammo, brb".
I understand that the ranged combat needs a few tweaks, but certainly not a whole new system again. I think it's very balanced atm, expect for PvP issues and people using rifles even if they're carbineer/pistoleer...
KardenTyrell
Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:22 am
#4
Not 1 thought? .......I better start writing the word nerf more often 
KardenTyrell
Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:35 am
#5
I took the running concept from Americas Army, wich is aimed for realisme. Jumping or prolonged running would expend that little green meter, wich in turn would make your aim a little worse then normal. I liked in the game Operation Flashpoint that if you ran for a longer time...your character would be breathing very fast..and you'de hear your own hart beating, coupled with your aim jumping up and down untill you gave yourself some rest.
Adval wrote:
So basicly a new CU? No thanks...
So you mean running would cost action? Seriously, who else than roleplayers (yes, I understand you're one) walks most of the time?
KardenTyrell wrote:
Running Expends 0.2% action per second (Run a full 8 minutes with action)
Ammo
A Standard powercell has enough for 100 normally charged shots.
Depending on the weaponry, one can load up a multiple amount of powercells into a weapon. Generally larger, or automatic weaponry can store more of them...but due to damage output, they spend them more quickly, then a normally powered pistol. (The DL88 for instance is a higher charged pistol, wich expends ammo more quickly).
powercells are crafted and loaded up into your weaponry.
Militairy bases have the option to charge your weaponry to full standard amount of power at the power terminals.
As for ammo... You couldn't grind, hunt nor kill anything without either having to buy powercells every few minutes or placing a base next to you. Not would this only make combat professions even more costy, it would make it harder for new players to climb up the branches. And it's pretty annoying if you got a pack of bols/pikets/gurks/[insert any animal here] on you and suddenly everyone's "oh sorry... I'm out of ammo, brb".
I understand that the ranged combat needs a few tweaks, but certainly not a whole new system again. I think it's very balanced atm, expect for PvP issues and people using rifles even if they're carbineer/pistoleer...
These changes could give some differentiation in to use of weaponry, and the use of armor.
Instead of a fight always being on the move, there would be allot more moments of barricading or setting up choke points.
Everyone runs most of the time, because one can do that indefinatly, opposed to real life....where one gets tired.
As for ammo, this would give a bit more incentive for different use of weaponry, instead of always use the best and more powerfull one. And ammo wouldn't run out as fast as one would believe
Taken for example.
The E-11'splasma gas cartridges allowed for over 500 shots, while the weapon's powercells could last for 100.
Soperhaps the weapon itself has 100 shots, wich can be freely charged at a powerstation.
You have a cartridge wich last for 500 shots, you drag it into your weapon...and every 100 shots, you have a slight pause where your character reloads another 100 shots from the cartridge. The cartriges could be deliverd in factory crates, but offcourse you'll need to be a moment out of combat, if you want to extract them.
And what about an option to loot active powercells or cartridges from dead npc's/players?
If you surrounded an enemy and fight them to exaustionto no resources left....offcourse ones ammo will run out.
You'll make that choice, long lasting....or quick and powerfull.
It's nowhere near a new CU, it just adds to existing items.
Yoshiyuki
Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:54 am
#6
The goal of the CU was to make combat simplified and easy to understand. You have only a few stats to worry about now. Damage, Speed and SAC. Maybe DPS but this is over rated(What good is a base DPS of 400 when your out of action in 3 shots?)
There are movement modifers for pistols, carbs, rifles and heavy weapons. Each have a different movement hinderence rate.
Ammo= bad ju ju. Even special heavy weapons had ammo removed. Rocket Launchers have unlimted ammo now.
Adval
Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:22 am
#7
But you see, you took the examples out of FPS games. And these changes would alsoslightly convert SWG into a MMOFPS, just without manual aiming. Those are the reasons I don't like it. And it would be a whole new combat system again, even if it's just adding things like ammo etc.
KardenTyrell wrote:
I took the running concept from Americas Army, wich is aimed for realisme. Jumping or prolonged running would expend that little green meter, wich in turn would make your aim a little worse then normal. I liked in the game Operation Flashpoint that if you ran for a longer time...your character would be breathing very fast..and you'de hear your own hart beating, coupled with your aim jumping up and down untill you gave yourself some rest.
These changes could give some differentiation in to use of weaponry, and the use of armor.
Instead of a fight always being on the move, there would be allot more moments of barricading or setting up choke points.
Everyone runs most of the time, because one can do that indefinatly, opposed to real life....where one gets tired.
As for ammo, this would give a bit more incentive for different use of weaponry, instead of always use the best and more powerfull one. And ammo wouldn't run out as fast as one would believe
Taken for example.
The E-11'splasma gas cartridges allowed for over 500 shots, while the weapon's powercells could last for 100.
Soperhaps the weapon itself has 100 shots, wich can be freely charged at a powerstation.
You have a cartridge wich last for 500 shots, you drag it into your weapon...and every 100 shots, you have a slight pause where your character reloads another 100 shots from the cartridge. The cartriges could be deliverd in factory crates, but offcourse you'll need to be a moment out of combat, if you want to extract them.
And what about an option to loot active powercells or cartridges from dead npc's/players?
If you surrounded an enemy and fight them to exaustionto no resources left....offcourse ones ammo will run out.
You'll make that choice, long lasting....or quick and powerfull.
It's nowhere near a new CU, it just adds to existing items.
KardenTyrell
Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:17 pm
#9
How would it slightly convert it to a MMOFPS in regards to ammo? There's MMO's out there where you have to buy arrows for bows, sometimes even all different kinds ofarrows with different statistics.
Adval wrote:
But you see, you took the examples out of FPS games. And these changes would alsoslightly convert SWG into a MMOFPS, just without manual aiming. Those are the reasons I don't like it. And it would be a whole new combat system again, even if it's just adding things like ammo etc.
KardenTyrell wrote:
I took the running concept from Americas Army, wich is aimed for realisme. Jumping or prolonged running would expend that little green meter, wich in turn would make your aim a little worse then normal. I liked in the game Operation Flashpoint that if you ran for a longer time...your character would be breathing very fast..and you'de hear your own hart beating, coupled with your aim jumping up and down untill you gave yourself some rest.
These changes could give some differentiation in to use of weaponry, and the use of armor.
Instead of a fight always being on the move, there would be allot more moments of barricading or setting up choke points.
Everyone runs most of the time, because one can do that indefinatly, opposed to real life....where one gets tired.
As for ammo, this would give a bit more incentive for different use of weaponry, instead of always use the best and more powerfull one. And ammo wouldn't run out as fast as one would believe
Taken for example.
The E-11'splasma gas cartridges allowed for over 500 shots, while the weapon's powercells could last for 100.
Soperhaps the weapon itself has 100 shots, wich can be freely charged at a powerstation.
You have a cartridge wich last for 500 shots, you drag it into your weapon...and every 100 shots, you have a slight pause where your character reloads another 100 shots from the cartridge. The cartriges could be deliverd in factory crates, but offcourse you'll need to be a moment out of combat, if you want to extract them.
And what about an option to loot active powercells or cartridges from dead npc's/players?
If you surrounded an enemy and fight them to exaustionto no resources left....offcourse ones ammo will run out.
You'll make that choice, long lasting....or quick and powerfull.
It's nowhere near a new CU, it just adds to existing items.
Message Edited by KardenTyrell on 07-08-2005 12:36 AM
Adval
Thu Jul 07, 2005 3:48 pm
#10
I know there are such MMORPGs too, but I was also referring to the weight and running limits, infact every change you suggested. It's just too FPS-like for me, that's the reason I don't like it.
KardenTyrell wrote:
How would it slightly convert it to a MMOFPS in regards to ammo? There's MMO's out there where you have to buy arrows for bows, sometimes even all different kinds ofarrows with different statistics.
Message Edited by KardenTyrell on 07-08-2005 12:36 AM
KardenTyrell
Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:00 pm
#11
Adval wrote:
I know there are such MMORPGs too, but I was also referring to the weight and running limits, infact every change you suggested. It's just too FPS-like for me, that's the reason I don't like it.
KardenTyrell wrote:
How would it slightly convert it to a MMOFPS in regards to ammo? There's MMO's out there where you have to buy arrows for bows, sometimes even all different kinds ofarrows with different statistics.
Message Edited by KardenTyrell on 07-08-200512:36 AM
Then instead of first thinking it's 'fps' like...view these 'realisme' implementations firstas a way tobalance out some of the problems we have in combat, without nerfing each others professions.
Running limits also has an appearance EverQuest 2, when you do a burstrun ...it drains your action to 0. I'm not sure if it was a toggle option there.
When/why in 'starwars' would one use a pistol, carbine, rifle. Take those instances and convert them into working game mechanics, giving them better parameters to balance them out accordingly.
Adval
Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:14 pm
#12
KardenTyrell wrote:
Then instead of first thinking it's 'fps' like...view these 'realisme' implementations firstas a way tobalance out some of the problems we have in combat, without nerfing each others professions.
Running limits also has an appearance EverQuest 2, when you do a burstrun ...it drains your action to 0. I'm not sure if it was a toggle option there.
When/why in 'starwars' would one use a pistol, carbine, rifle. Take those instances and convert them into working game mechanics, giving them better parameters to balance them out accordingly.
Well I personally am happy with the current system even when it has some balance issues... Perhaps I just don't want to adapt to a pretty different system again after the CU... I don't know. Just somehow I think these changes would change SWG too much in general, not only in a combat aspect.
As for realism... This game has none of it and if it ever would have, the first step I'd want is to remove all jedi from existance, then look at combat and stuff... But that's off topic so I won't continue that...
Shikkari
Thu Jul 07, 2005 4:41 pm
#13
Siru wrote:
Its an undercover dev with a massive nerf bat! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!
ROFLMAO
.....
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