Carbineer Archive

Message Edited by beantownphan on 09-09-2004 09:07 AM

I am also VERY curious about this skill, as it's been reported in the rifleman forums that the skill is broken and NOT working as the melee speeed enhancements are working. As a master carbineer in desperate need of speed, and poor as dirt, I'd like to know if this skill works and is worth the effort to get..

has any carbineer taken this skill tree?? any help greatly appreciated.

From what i understand the mods from combat prowess do not act the same as those off carbineer or any other prof. The mods are called "Enhanced Ranged Speed" or whichever mod it may be, and they are totally separate and dont stack with the basic mods. The FS mods allow you to pass beyond the speed cap. So for instance with the +12 Enhanced from combat prowess at 4 you could fire 3 times in 1 second(i know this isnt accurate, im just using whatever numbers) instead of capping at 1 second without them. If you not capped with the regular mods i dont know how the fs ones would perform. IMO if your not capped with the regular mods, doing the FS tree is a waste because your not getting the "force effect" from them that they are ment for.

I have the ranged speed line also. I also have +26 in clothing attachments (I know +25 is all that works). I did a very very brief test last night to see if I could still shoot a cripple shot at the speed cap.

So, my speed mods include +60 (master carb) +25 (attachments) +12 (enhanced speed) = +97 speed

I equipped a 4.0s laser carbine which I did cap when I had +90 speed (I dropped master marksman when I trained up the enhanced ranged speed). I targeted a lone Stormtrooper and fired off a series of cripple shots. I still fired at once a second. I would not have been able to do this with a 4.0s gun with just +85 carb speed. So, the enhanced ranged speed did help enough to keep me firing 1 second cripple shots.

If the enhanced ranged speed wasn't working my speed mods would be:

+60 +25 = +85

This speed mod will not allow a 1 second cripple shot with a 4.0s gun

I will be able to do some more specific testing if I need too, but I believe it to be working as intended.

Message Edited by travenwatts on 09-09-2004 08:36 AM

Well, I will do some more specific testing then. I haven't done much testing in the past in this game, but I am an Engineer so I think I can handle it.

Give me some ideas of a proper way (equipment to use, etc) and I will crunch some numbers.

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travenwatts wrote:
Well, I will do some more specific testing then. I haven't done much testing in the past in this game, but I am an Engineer so I think I can handle it.

Give me some ideas of a proper way (equipment to use, etc) and I will crunch some numbers.

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You should test with and without SEA's and with a weapon that is fast and slow. Screenshots of the weapons and skill modifier box is best here.

Take at least 20 shots of CripplingShot and 20 shots of FullAutoSingle2 and get screenshots of the Combat Log, with TIME STAMP.

Post those on the Internet so we can all see.....you can crunch the numbers or I can....we are both Engineers

If you can, find a CDEF that is 4.0 speed and use that, otherwise you kill stuff too fast I did my testing against myself (I have 3 toons) so I could fire as much as I wanted....except it hurt my armor of course....

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beantownphan wrote:

After Combat Prowess Speed:

I figured the +12 enhanced range speed would easily put me over the cap as picking up Master Marksman would have added +5 speed, and with a 4.0 carb I could still hit the cap. But still with no change in template (pure Master Carb/ no Master Marksman) tonight I noticed that my Cripple shot was firing noticeably slower than my FAS2. My carb was 3.8 speed. Shouldn't I be way over the cap with the additional +12??

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beantownphan wrote:
OK- I need all you mathemeticians to help me out. I have read the speed equations here and have found after mastering a few professions that this Carb forum is probably the best as far as FAQ and special information, mainly due to Nova (yes there is now brown on my nose). This forum really taught me the value of weapon speed and the ability to achieve the most damage per second. So, I was excited as heck to be able to pick up the Combat Prowess Speed tree as one of my free unlocks and be able to use damage sliced carbs and still max out my speed. Let me give you the before and afters:

Before Combat Prowess Speed:
I used a 2.7 speed carb with +25 Speed Skill attachments (no BH at all- pure carb, baby). Master Carbineer- not Master Marksman. Using the equations in the FAQ I should have been firing all specials at 1 sec. This seemed true as my Cripple would fire as fast as say my FAS2.

After Combat Prowess Speed:
I figured the +12 enhanced range speed would easily put me over the cap as picking up Master Marksman would have added +5 speed, and with a 4.0 carb I could still hit the cap. But still with no change in template (pure Master Carb/ no Master Marksman) tonight I noticed that my Cripple shot was firing noticeably slower than my FAS2. My carb was 3.8 speed. Shouldn't I be way over the cap with the additional +12??

This leads me to believe that the FS Combat Prowess is not working or was not intended to work in this manner. Any thoughts, same experiences, or mistake in the math? Please help, fellow Carbineers!!

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As I understand it, this was your set up

+60 carbine speed (master Carb)
+25 speed attachments
+12 enhanced ranged speed

Here is your speed equation without the enhanced speed effects.

Speed Equation
{[100-(60+25)]/100)}*3.8*2.5 = 1.425s

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Lets say enhanced ranged speed is working as a + mod.

Speed Equation
{[100-(60+25+12)]/100)}*3.8*2.5 = 0.285 = 1.0s cap

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Now lets look at the equation if enhanced ranged speed is working as a % increase of your total speed mod.

Speed Equation
{[100-(60+25)*1.12)]/100)}*3.8*2.5 = 0.456 = 1.0s cap

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One last comparison. Lets look at the enhanced ranged speed as a % increase of your base speed mod without attachments. So the 12% increaase will be added to +60 and then the +25 of speed attachments will be added.

Speed Equation
{[100-(60*1.12)+25]/100)}*3.8*2.5 = 0.741 = 1.0s cap

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From these comparisons, it doesn't seem that taking the enhanced speed as a + mod or as a % increase mattered in your case. Unless they are adding an increase to some unknown base mod. The only time you wouldn't be able to cap is if the enhanced speed wasn't being added at all.

In my case I had a 4.0s second gun, +85 speed with attachments and +12 enhanced ranged speed. I was able to shoot my cripple shot at 1.0s.

Beantownphan, please do some more testing and we can compare results. I should be able to do some tonight and post some results tomorrow.

Message Edited by travenwatts on 09-09-2004 10:55 AM

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beantownphan wrote:

OK- I need all you mathemeticians to help me out. I have read the speed equations here and have found after mastering a few professions that this Carb forum is probably the best as far as FAQ and special information, mainly due to Nova (yes there is now brown on my nose). This forum really taught me the value of weapon speedand the ability to achieve the most damage per second. So, I was excited as heck to be able to pick up the Combat Prowess Speed tree as one of my free unlocks and be able to use damage sliced carbs and still max out my speed. Let me give you the before and afters:

Before Combat Prowess Speed:

I used a 2.7 speed carb with +25 Speed Skill attachments (no BH at all- pure carb, baby).Master Carbineer- not Master Marksman.Using the equations in the FAQ I should have been firing all specials at 1 sec. This seemed true as my Cripple would fire as fast as say my FAS2.

After Combat Prowess Speed:

I figured the +12 enhanced range speed would easily put me over the cap as picking up Master Marksman would have added +5 speed, and with a 4.0 carb I could still hit the cap. But still with no change in template (pure Master Carb/ no Master Marksman) tonight I noticed that my Cripple shot was firing noticeably slower than my FAS2. My carb was 3.8 speed. Shouldn't I be way over the cap with the additional +12??

This leads me to believe that the FS Combat Prowess is not working or was not intended to work in this manner. Any thoughts, same experiences, or mistake in the math? Please help, fellow Carbineers!!

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a good idea would be to time stamp your combat spam, see how fast your attackes are going, but for me. i see no diffrenece with thecombat prowess: ranged speed branch, but however, i'm dropping carbineer for some other profession, not sure yet.

edit: just watch the combat spam with timestamp enabled- sometimes i do get two attacks in the same second. dunno why- but most of the time one attack every second.

Message Edited by mrmark200000 on 09-09-2004 09:04 AM