Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer is not a Profession.........
Where do the devs get off calling Carbineers, Pistoleers, Swordmen, or Pikemen professions? This has got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Professions are defined by your JOB not by your tools. Yes, certain Professions tend to use certain tools. But at the end of the day it isn't how you get there, but getting there that counts. Unfortunately, the Dev's didn't figure that out.
Which is why combat specialty classes have gotten screwed.
A better Idea: Replace our profession with a REAL profession. Then allow that Profession to pick it's weapons.
Ideas:
Soldier.
Smuggler (not the one we have now, but one which actually smuggles).
Criminal.
Bounty Hunter: A Bounty Hunter Defined by his Job and NOT by the uses of the LLC.
Special Forces Soldier (one with a scout background).
Artisan.
Etc........
Define Professions by their job, then let them pick at least 1 weapon skill to do it, or 2 if it is a combat oriented profession, such as soldier.
Imagine the following scenario:
You are approached by someone at a bar and a discussion ensues:
"So what do you do for a living?" Question.
Answer: "Well I'm a Carbineer."
"You are a what?" Question.
"I'm a Carbineer." Answer.
Question: "Well what do you do?"
Answer: "I shoot carbines."
"Is that all you do?" Question.
"Yes, that's it." Answer.
Its a video game. Whether you call them professions, classes, skills, or rabid monkeys, they are what they are. How exactly are you proposing that a system where what you "do" in the game is a fun and balanced system? What weapons can a hunter use? all of them? oh sure, thats a good system.
ummm...most of the profession names in this game basically come from our worlds history of certian names givin to soldiers who use a certain type of weopon. Instead of just griping about this, do some Research man and read the history of weopons. Like the pikemen, they used used long lance type things with a huge Axe-like blade on the end of it and was used against mounted troops and shielded foes. Pikemen orginated from the ancient Greek Phalanx's.
This is just one example. Quit ur complaining and actualy do some Research.
Karikaru wrote:
or you could say "Im a mercenary" or "im a marauder" and they would know exactly what you do for a living
No you can't say that. To be a mercenary you have to do more than just shoot a carbine. The same goes for marauder. A mercenary is a class. SWG supposedly doesn't have classes. What it does have is skill trees and pre-requisites........
Most people don't seem to understand what he's trying to propose. (it's actually quite a bit of a big change from how the current profession system works)
It's kind of a cool idea. It becomes more of a job system than anything else since you will actually have to pick a profession which will entail a certain type of work that is alloted to that certain profession. The current system, as is, is not actually a profession system but more of a class-type system which are more commonly found in medieval RPG type settings where if one weilded something then that is what someone is. (if you weilded a sword, that is what you are: a swordsman) This wouldn't normally fit well into a modern or futuristic setting since this is an archaic way of looking at things. A cop is a profession. Cops are trained to use several types of weapons and may specialize in certain fields. You don't call cops Pistoleers or Fencers (stun baton), that'd just be weird.The Devs did categorize them wrong as professions rather than what they actually are: classes.
Let's take Jedi for example. (which would actually be a profession rather than a class) A Jedi uses lightsabers andforce powersbut they are not called Lightsaberers or Forcers. (or some other silly thing) Being a rifleman in the military does not mean that is your profession. Your profession would be as a soldier who happens to be specializing in rifles.
Currently,all combat people'sprofessions in SWG is mercenary. Everyone is a gun (or sword) for hire.
Player Creation
Step 1 > Choose Race, Hair Color, Nostril Width, and other goofy things
Step 2 > Choose a Job, a Real Job... similar to real world principals - Luke was a Moisture Farmer, Han Solo was a Smuggler, Jar-Jar was an Idiot, etc. In the real world construction workers aren't called "Jackhammerers" - professions aren't defined by tools (been said already).
No this job system change is radical, but perhaps a brilliant solution - classes/professions are to be based on what they do, not what they use - tools would be completely seperate. i.e. A Soldier would gain experience in his Soldier Skills when doing Soldier things... and would gain, let's say, Soldier Weapon Experience for fighting... (personally I would have maybe 3-4 weapon lines per class and only allow maybe 2-3 to be mastered)... eh I'm not thinking straight and can't explain this well..... so with that I leave you
I would have to agree with this line of thought also. One of the things I have been trying to do in the game is master Ranger, and trying to pick skills out of the other professions that would compliment this. To this end i've gone into the Carbineer specialty and also picked up some medical skills close to Master Medic.
I am at the point however where i'm going to have to start giveing up medical skills to get the rest of my skills in Carbineer and Ranger. But it strikes me that a Ranger, one of the ultimate lone wolf professions, should have at least enough medical skills to take care of himself in the wilderness with noone around. And as the skill structure is laid out now i'll have barely enough skill points left to keep novice medic and one skill. Probably one more argument for upping the avalible skill points, either that or deviseing some system where more skill points can be earned in difficult, but not impossible circumstances.
It's always struck me as interesting that when you have all your skill points avalible still, it appears there is a significant space still left at the end of the bar indicateing you COULD possibly have more skill points to use.
Another interesting tease by the Devs? Or just something to drive us insane trying to figure out why it's done that way?
In any case I agree that real professions should determine skill classes and skills avalible and not what you use. It does seem a bit silly.
A rather simplistic but probably easier to program solution comes to me. Seperate combat and non-combat classes into 2 skill pools of let's say 150-200 skill points each. This will keep non-pvp and non-combatant types still able to get mastery plus some in their favorite skill tree, as more than likely anyone dedicated to the non-combatant classes won't really be interested in the combat skills tree, but it will also make it possible for combat and pvp orientated characters to take non-combatant skills and keep themselves self-sufficent in the area of at least keeping themselves alive.
I realize the Holy Grail of the Devs is to make everyone in the game interdependant on each other and get a true feeling of community throughout the game, but honestly this just isn't a point of view most people share, oh occasionaly most people can be inspired to a common goal, but alot of them will want to know what's in it for them? From reading the forums from people on other servers it seems like right now most of the servers are overwhelmingly Imperial controled. Why is this? Because most people playing this game could care less about community or the status of the galaxy, their main goal is to be the biggest, best, toughest, most able to kill someone else in PVP, richest, best weaponsmith, armorsmith...etc...etc... And right now with the overwhelming advantage the Imperials have this is where this goal lies. I have heard of a few servers where the Rebels are in control but from talking to these people the whole server is so ENTIRELY Rebel controled that it seems unlikely the Imperials will ever be able to put up a significant challange unless assisted by the Devs in some manner.
My apoligies for this post turning into a giant rant about the state of the game itself, I have been reading alot of posts in forums tonight trying to catch up with the state of the game and people's opinions of it. I have been around since the forums were opened but when I bought the game for some reason Sony decided that my username and password i've been useing for the past 3 years wouldent work in SWG soI had to create a new account. In any case I know the game isn't drasticly broken. I don't think 300,000 people would be playing if it was. But once you get past the initial fun of starting a class and developing it into the 2nd level area you start to wonder, how could this be better.
My idea would help, and I agree with the idea presented here also. I understand the Devs don't want the characters to become gods, but I think a little more room for rounding out characters is needed.
That significant space (for me anyway) was the 15 points taken up with my starting job.
While I agree with the entire concept presented here, it goes highly against the "vision" the Developers have mapped out for this game. One idea was that when you start you choose a job, and you can do things within that purview. While I don't disagree that this would be kind of neat, the idea of the game is that you can play as an Entertainer, be known galaxy wide for your amazing skills in music, then leave and become a Pistol weilding sharpshooter. The job system proposed would entirely curtail this. That is, unless a soldier could be an entertainer too, in which case we now have precisely the same system we have at current. You've just renamed Marksman to Soldier and he now has a speciality (or Elite Profession) of Carbineer).
this sounds like what they use in AO.
and it works.
and you can change your job at anytime too.
SouthernShark, the game you're playing is one of semantics, mostly. This is a *skill* based system -- the skills are just organized into "professions" for ease of seeing the prerequisites and the like. Nobody's actually saying that Carbineer is a job -- it's just one skillset that you use to perform a combatant's job (usually that of a mercenary or a soldier if you're into factional stuff).
Now, the one area that you have it right is this: the real "job" oriented professions (rather than the toolset professions like the weapon professions) need to be mostly job oriented, and have maybe one line of combat skills, tops. Smuggler is a good example of an ideal, except for the common complaint that they don't do any smuggling (which is more a lack in the overall game system than the profession itself -- for the smuggler to smuggle, there would first have to be vehicles available for transportation of goods, there would have to be a system of contraband and enforcement of the "laws" regarding them, etc. All of which would be good, but none of which exist thus far).
Bounty Hunter, however, is an example of something that should bea "job" profession, but is instead a pure combat profession. I've been saying since release (and would have said since beta if I were in it) that BH needed to be a much cheaper prereq'd profession about tracking, debuffing, and capturing bounties, not about being godly in personal combat. Because everybody wants to be good at combat, and let's face it, skill points and xp are not deterrants. If BH was about BEING a bounty hunter, you'd have an appropriate number of them, and they'd actually be playing bounty hunter characters, instead of having every third player dabble in bounty hunter for their super combat skills with their weapon of preference, and advising every aspiring bounty hunter they can find to NEVER advance in the Investigation line.
But there's nothing wrong with spending skill points to learn weapon-specific skills. And to do that, they have to be in a profession. That doesn't make them a job. That makes them a skillset in this skill-based, mix-and-match system. Would I like to see more professions that can complement,adddepth to,and expand current "combat professions"? Yes. I think everybody should have multiple options open to them like the pistoleers have smuggler -- ways to complement their basic weapon skills with special skill lines that add flavor and bring along with them some depth to character. I *do* think we need, for instance, a shock trooper (with rifle and carbine moves) profession, and a criminal or underworld or thug (moves useable with any weapon, or some melee and some ranged) profession, and a swooper gang profession (moves that can't be used with rifle since it's too unweildy to use while riding a swoop), etc. But they shouldn't replace the current weapon professions, they should be designed to complement and enhance them.