Carbineer Archive
Thread: Broken Class? Never Noticed!
I have to say I never noticed anything wrong with the class, except the high HAM cost.
When I first started playing I had an idea about what profession I wanted to take. I was a scout (4.0.4.4), marksman (3.4.0.4), medic (3.2.2.4), artisan (0.0.0.4), and bio engineer (2.1.4.1). I really wanted to be a master bio engineer, but liked having rifle and pistol for different ranges. I decided to free up points I could drop the rifle and pistol and take up the carbine. I haven't looked back yet, I absolutely love it!
Since then i am now a carbineer (0.1.0.0), master scout, ranger (0.1.1.0), medic (2.0.0.4) and ch (2.2.1.1), and love how the carbine fits in with my other professions. The ideal range is great for trapping, and being a ch I really wouldn't have to use very many specials, but that is what I kept medic for. I never really noticed anything wrong with the class, and am happy with it just the way it is.
Well, just my 2 cents worth!
Don't take this the wrong way...I could maybe see the point of this post if you were 4444. But seriously...your 0100. Carbineer refers to the class Carbineer...not using carbines in the marksman line. You are still just a baby carbineer 
Have you noticed your legshot3 doesn't do more damage thatn legshot2? You spent 5 points for that skill.
Noticed when you fire fullautosingle2 that sometimes mobs you hit become dizzy but the dizzy lasts 0.1 seconds?
Noticed when you fire actionshot2 that it hits mobs all over....damages some of them...bleeds others...and what it does changes on a shot-to-shot basis?
Those are your 3 carbineer skills. The rest are marksman.
Im not carbineer and even i know there broken.. Well thats probably because we both have exact same problem we have so many broken skills. and you guys dont get skill at master which is odd
(HAM costs not a issue IMO because any doc can take care of that)
Master carabineer/0-4-3-4 doctor and in no way do i think that carabineers are broken.
Ail, how can you say that lol?
You don't notice the broken styles, the highHAM costs, the lack of a decent high-end carbine, the fact that stun does't work, the fact that dizzy lasts like .1sec, the defenses that never work, the counterattack that never works, the dorky chargeshot graphic, the way we stop to shoot sometimes....
I mean, you HAVE to know about some of those if you are a master.
Please tell me you know about some of these, because only a troll would say what you just said...on ANY profession forum.
I'm honestly not trying to flame you, but as a master carbineer, you REALLY think we don't need anything fixed? And if so, why would you shoot your fellow carbineers in the foot with a comment like that?
These forums are a place to air problems with our profession. Sure we may not be as broken as some will make us out to be, but its widely accepted that all the weapon classes need work. Go play fanboi somewhere else, please.
Cyene
Just try using Charge shot 2 when you get it. Half our specials do not work
Cyene wrote:
Ail, how can you say that lol?
You don't notice the broken styles, the highHAM costs, the lack of a decent high-end carbine, the fact that stun does't work, the fact that dizzy lasts like .1sec, the defenses that never work, the counterattack that never works, the dorky chargeshot graphic, the way we stop to shoot sometimes....
I mean, you HAVE to know about some of those if you are a master.
Please tell me you know about some of these, because only a troll would say what you just said...on ANY profession forum.
I'm honestly not trying to flame you, but as a master carbineer, you REALLY think we don't need anything fixed? And if so, why would you shoot your fellow carbineers in the foot with a comment like that?
These forums are a place to air problems with our profession. Sure we may not be as broken as some will make us out to be, but its widely accepted that all the weapon classes need work. Go play fanboi somewhere else, please.
Cyene
Well I know of only 2 broken styles and they are leg shot 3 and charge shot 2 and wouldn't be using them if they worked as specified anyway.
Just yesterday I killed 3 commandos and during one of the fight I counterattacked on a 1600 dmg flamer hit ( and thanks to the counter attack I didn't take the dmg..)
We have great specials like scatter shot 2 but sadly enough few people use them...
HAM costs are not an issue for me because I am doctor too...
To that you are going to tell me you should not need to be doctor, well you don't, you can always buy buffs and anyway I could answer you that a master marksman could complain that he is broken and that he shouldn't need to take carabineer to compete with a carabiner....
I have seen so many carabineers saying they shouldn't need to take BH to be competitive, well I didn't and I am and anyway if your reasonning hold true, why does the marksman have to take an elite profession to compete ???
Ail wrote:
Well I know of only 2 broken styles and they are leg shot 3 and charge shot 2 and wouldn't be using them if they worked as specified anyway.
You're forgetting burst shot 2. You also missed the broken dizzy effect for the FA moves, and the wonky effects of AE moves in general, which this profession has in abundance. You are also defending our point by saying that the two moves you admit are broken wouldn't be useful even if they were fixed. Technically, wildshot 1 & 2 aren't broken, but there's not much use to them either, seeing as about four other moves cause stun as well, and generally do more damage when they do. Not to mention that stun in general sucks, but that's not really specific to carbineers.
Just yesterday I killed 3 commandos and during one of the fight I counterattacked on a 1600 dmg flamer hit ( and thanks to the counter attack I didn't take the dmg..)
Did you actually counterattack? Or did you just dodge with a different name?
We have great specials like scatter shot 2 but sadly enough few people use them...
I'll agree with you there, scattershot 2 is a great, underappreciated move.
HAM costs are not an issue for me because I am doctor too...
To that you are going to tell me you should not need to be doctor, well you don't, you can always buy buffs and anyway I could answer you that a master marksman could complain that he is broken and that he shouldn't need to take carabineer to compete with a carabiner....
Your argument doesn't work because marksman is a starting profession. The game is designed around the fact that you progress up and into more specialized, powerful professions. Its also designed (or it was intended to be, lol) around the idea that you can diversify and gain a wide range of abilities, but that those who choose to specialize in one particular profession will be far more powerful in their chosen area. This is definitely not the case for the carbineer profession.
I have seen so many carabineers saying they shouldn't need to take BH to be competitive, well I didn't and I am and anyway if your reasonning hold true, why does the marksman have to take an elite profession to compete ???
Again, flawed argument. And you didn't need to be BH because you are a doctor. I am one too and its great and it complements theweaknesses in carbineer nicely, but they are still weaknesses that need to be fixed, not intended weaknesses.
I want to emphasise, that carbineers as a whole (there are a few dumb ones, lol) do not want anyone else to be nerfed, we just want to be able to compete without being required to take up BH or doctor. BH/carbineers and doctor/carbineers should be more powerful, I'm all for that, but as it stands, we need to branch out just to be VIABLE, just to SURVIVE. SOJ is a BH/carbineer, but he can still see the problems. They are that obvious.
I see you agree that BH/Carbiner or BH/Doctor should be more powerfull than carabineers( and what of Master Carabineer/Master CH ?).
So would you be willing to agree too that Master BH or Master Commando should be more powerfull than carabineer (After all they require about double the pts than Master carabineer).
If you want we can compare carabineers with equivallent elite professions like Rifleman, Pistoleer, Smuggler, Squad leader, pikeman, TK, Fencer, Swordsman..
Yes some will come out better than carabineer but some come out worse too and carabineer is in no way as broken as people make it seem be....
That is my whole point...
As for those that say that Master BH or Master Commando shouldnot bemore powerfullthan carabineer, what do you make of carabineers that took a second profession ( Master carabiners do have 158 remaining pts after all...)
If you want game balance, it has to go both ways....
I guess have CH and some medic skills I really dont pay attention to the problems. I am sure I would have a different opinion if I did not have any of the other professions to offset it. The HAM cost sometimes gets to me, but I could see the reasoning. You are getting the best of both worlds from pistol and rifle by using a carbine. I did a stat migration and maxxed out my regen rate for my action bar, and boosted my other action bars higher....add to that some spice from my smuggler buddy, and I hardly see the effects of doing specials. I have always wondered about legshot 3 not beign any better than legshot 2, but I assumed it was the wide damage range on my laser carbine.
I sympathize with all of you....I was in BE. Want to talk about a bugged and broken class. Half of the creatures could not be tamed, there was not descriptions for anything, and none of the tissues worked. The only thing I have left in BE is tissue engineering 1 for the pet stims and vit packs, and once I run a bunch of those in my factory, I will be dropping it totally. Stick it out everyone, it will all be fixed in time, then the people that cancelled their account because of the problems will be whining..."When I canceled my account I was a master in this can you just give me instant master status again please. I shouldn't have to work up to it again!" 
Thanks for your opinions!
Dizzy effects don't work
Counterinsurgency Tree: (dodge/counterattack) these skill mods don't work
Legshot 3: broken, I suspect it has never been coded and it is just a rebadged Legshot 2, same damage same ham costs.
Charge Shot 2: Broken
Suppression 2: broken
HAM costs: highest of all ranged classes
Elite Carbine: anything but
Wild shot 1, 2 Burst Shot 1,2 Fullauto single 1, 2 Cripple Shot. : because the status modifiers are mostly broken or ineffectual these specials all end up being just damage modified random pool attacks. The redundancy of these attacks means that most carbineers just pick the one that is doing the most damage over time using their skill level and weapon speed and the rest are just taking up space.
Posture down attacks (suppressions, action shots), now that you can only get one of these off/30 seconds these skills which once defined the carbineer class as crowd controlling are redundant and wasteful.
You end up with mid to high level carbineers popping off a posture down, one or two bleeds, and then spamming cripple shot or burst shot 2 with the rest of the tree being fluff aside from accuracy and speed bonuses. The AoE attacks are useful against low difficulty mobs, but those mobs are generally not worth fighting. Against the bigbad mobs on dantooine/endor, the last thing you want to do is get aggroed by every mob in cone range and hit the lair at the same time, it's a suicide tactic.
Carbine crafting is complicated and very picky about the materials used which means few if any useable elite carbines are produced and the only two real choices for a general use gun are the laser carb which is certified for marksmen, not carbineers, or the dh17 whichagain is a marksman cert, hell it's a level 1 marksman cert..
So what is the carbineer master getting for all of his time and pain?: less accuracy and speed than he would have gotten as a 0040 BH, no strong weapon certs to replace his marksman gun, no improvement on his targetted pool attacks past marksman level, either cripple or burst shot depending on play style, action shot 2, and a knockdown.
If it ain't broken, it's bent all to hell anyway.