Carbineer Archive
Thread: Broken Class? Never Noticed!
Ail wrote:
I see you agree that BH/Carbiner or BH/Doctor should be more powerfull than carabineers( and what of Master Carabineer/Master CH ?).
So would you be willing to agree too that Master BH or Master Commando should be more powerfull than carabineer (After all they require about double the pts than Master carabineer).
If you want we can compare carabineers with equivallent elite professions like Rifleman, Pistoleer, Smuggler, Squad leader, pikeman, TK, Fencer, Swordsman..
Yes some will come out better than carabineer but some come out worse too and carabineer is in no way as broken as people make it seem be....
That is my whole point...
As for those that say that Master BH or Master Commando shouldnot bemore powerfullthan carabineer, what do you make of carabineers that took a second profession ( Master carabiners do have 158 remaining pts after all...)
If you want game balance, it has to go both ways....
you're changing your arg here, ail =) going from a 'we're not broken' to a 'we shouldn't be any better.' those are two totally different args, and the second doesn't even apply to most of us. it does bring up a point i'll get to in a moment, though...
we're not wanting to be able to compete with master bh's and commandos. we're wanting what is broken to be fixed, then some 'tweaking' to make us better. what it comes down, to, though...is that several of our specials and abilities are broken, and in a comparison of OTHER elite professions, we come up lacking.
aoe attacks: with ALL of our aoe (area of effect) specials, do not work as intended unless you hold the aggro from that mob. case in point: 5 corellian butterfly drones (very low ham, n00b mob to kill). i target droneA, use full-auto area2. A dies, but B,C,D,and E are left alive, adn they charge me down. at this point in time, sometimes aoe will work on the group, and sometimes not. somewhat difficult to test, as the mobs don't like to stay ina nice neat, orderly formation as they charge me down and i'm a lazy person.
full-auto's: single1,2 and area 1,2 all have the chance to stun/dizzy/blind. stun is worthless, and has no effect whatsoever. blind is only effective v. ranged oppponents (it IS nice then, though..significantly drops their accuracy, or it seems to). and the dizzy is broken the SAME SECOND that it takes effect. (using the timestamping option provided in game, on the combat tab.) in addition, they all take a large amount of HAM, but do a decent amount of damage. a 'tweakage' of the ham costs downward of 10-20% seems reasonable
charge shot: 1 requires lame animation with forced movement; thus, we will always have the worst possible accuracy with this move, esp. after the latest round of accuracy hits (that is, its harder to hit stuff now. actually, that went in awhile ago, but whatever). there are changes in tc for the actual effect when kd, so i won't go into that here. cs2 is supposed to be aoe kd. the aoe part is broken just like every other aoe special (aggro from all in radius, but only damage applied to the target selected) and it doesn't kd.
scattershot: 1,2...not much wrong here, a nice underappreciated special. in the combat tab the damage reads as '1'. this is likely due to hitting mutliple ham bars at the same time (at a guess, i think that the damage over the targets head reading '1000' is actually soemthing along the lines of health being hit 600 times, action 300, and mind 100...all for 1 point of damage. if this is the case, the fix is going to be much harder and lengthy to fix than its worth, until most/all other bugs are fixed)
wild shot: 1,2...low damage, high cost. stun is useless. leg shot stuns, as well as full-autos'. no point for these. also, ws2 has same aoe bug as all others. (umm, i think ws2 is aoe anyway? might be wrong)
legshot 2,3: ARE THE EXACT SAME IN EVERY WAY, SHAPE, AND FORM! the devs might someday get around to fixing legshot3 as they admit that its broken. however, there was no mention of fixing the aoe effect in general, and so making legshot3 be aoe STILL leaves it broken. also, they both stun. same problems with stun.
burstshot: 1 is a nice, wicked little special. 2 is pointless...roughly the same daamge as bs1 w/much higher ham costs. it is not aoe, but i assume that the dev fix would be to make IT aoe. that is an assumption, however, and i have read NOTHING to indicate that they're aware of the problem, let alone have a fix in mind
crippling shot: high damage, high ham cost. 'nuff said. (i like this puppy, btw)
now then, our modifiers! yea!
less speed than all other elite combat professions at the master level. master pistoleers and master swordsmen get a tad bit more than us. our accuracy modifier is actually better than pistoleers/riflemen, but agiain, just by a tad (a tad is +5 or less). and our defenses...wow. its a good thing that the defenses as a whole don't amount to anything. if they did, we still wouldn't be able to successfully out-compete a 0400 bh at the master-level on a regular basis..assuming that the bh wasn't an idiot. we have not only the lowest defense v. ranged, but also only +15 to kd and +15 to intimidate. that's it. riflemen get it pretty bad too...but they still have more, and to more TYPES than us. not a cry to nerf, but to actually report back on your months-long investigation (devs response to top5, anyone? everything except the name was supposed to be investigated...) and tell us if this is the way it was intended, or if there was a 'once-over' before the release and defenses being kept on par (not the same..just on par) with other elite combat professions was missed.
also, we're the only elite combat profession that doesn't get a new special at master, and we have the fewest specials as-is. so, ail...even though some may come out better and some not, that is NOT the way things 'should be.' and with obvious discrepancies and broken-ness to the carbineer profession, i STILL cannot see how you can stand there and say that we're not broken. the only advantage we have over the melee elite combat professions is that we use ranged attacks. (granted, that's a HUGE advantage. and they should have a rather huge boost in abilities to compensate for it.however, if we were compared against pistoleers/riflemen, and all three professions were WORKING as opposed to having several major parts of them BROKEN, there would be a huge difference.)
i just want what's broke to be fixed. or an acknowledgment that its broke. or a post in our forums saying 'hi! wassup? we're not dealing with carbineers this year. better luck next year!' not wanting to have the elite carbine made ap4 400-900 damage, just for it to be worth toting around and taking up inventory space. also, CONSISTENT SPELLING OF CARBINEER!!!!! this is the only issue that they said would be addressed after our top5, and guess what? there are ZERO novice carbineers and master carbineers. they're all novice carbiniers and master carbiniers. and yes, this is turning into a huge neuroses for me, because there were multiple professions that got entire skill-trees reworked w/o them asking for it, complete with new names and titles and descriptions, and we got a kd/pc nerf.
Ail, could you start again with your argument, cuz im struggling with it.
First you say carbineers aren't broken. Then you backup and say "oh wait, yah we have 2 broken moves". Then you forget that argument altogether and say we should expect to be better than BHs or commandos.
It appears to me you are just playing devil's advocate to every well-thought-out rebuttal post.
And you still have not addressed the several other broken moves that you claim are fine.
What is your motivation, because it looks to me like you think all of us are just whiners who don't have an argument....which makes it very difficult for me ot not just write you off as a troll and flame the crap outta you.
Cyene
Read "shouldn't" in first paragraph of my post above.
No edit really sucks...
Cyene
Cyene wrote:
Ail, could you start again with your argument, cuz im struggling with it.
First you say carbineers aren't broken. Then you backup and say "oh wait, yah we have 2 broken moves". Then you forget that argument altogether and say we should expect to be better than BHs or commandos.
It appears to me you are just playing devil's advocate to every well-thought-out rebuttal post.
And you still have not addressed the several other broken moves that you claim are fine.
What is your motivation, because it looks to me like you think all of us are just whiners who don't have an argument....which makes it very difficult for me ot not just write you off as a troll and flame the crap outta you.
Cyene
Where did I say we should be better than Commandos and BH ?
As for broken move I don't think the few issues some of our moves have are really hampering the class.
Many people are making a big deal of aes.
Lets face it I don't care if my first ae actually only hits one creature. The next 20 will hit all of them and it is all that matters.
Fixing this is not going to change drastically the class. It is a minor bug with a minor in game effect.
As for scatter shot 2 not displaying damage, 90% of the community will laugh when we see a patch with release notes saying " fixed scatter shot 2 so damage is properly displayed". It is a nice to have things when 99% of the more important issues for all classes have been fixed. It doesn't prevent anyone from using scatter shot 2. Doesn't affect your performance in the class, really it's like complaining about a typo in game.
Yeah typoes are bad, but they aren't stop ship bugs....
POST CONTENT: 3-5 lines.
QUOTE CONTENT: More than 3-5 lines. Way more... oh goodness.
Ail...Read my edit above your post...it was supposed to be "shouldn't"...
"Lets face it I don't care if my first ae actually only hits one creature. The next 20 will hit all of them and it is all that matters."
See thats just it, "you" not caring does not change the fact that it is NOT WORKING AS INTENDED.
So for your playstyle it doesn't make a difference....are trying to say that makes it ok? Furthermore, are you implying that because this and all the other issues are not a big deal to you personally that they should just be ignored?
"Fixing this is not going to change drastically the class. It is a minor bug with a minor in game effect."
I think what you meant to say was "Fixing this is not going to change dramatically the WAY I PLAY MY CARBINEER. It is PERCEIVED BY ME as a minor bug with a minor in game effect."
And on that note, did it ever occur to you that Carbineers might have MUCH better strategies to choose from if indeed all our specials worked as intended? For example, KD + Dizzy is just uber, and we have it...but guess what, its broken. In that example, the ONE THING that other classes are using to own us non-doctor/CM/CH-carbineers is something we could feasibly be doing right back to them. But because Dizzy is broken....well...
Cyene
KD+Dizzy is a grossly overpowered combination that will be nerfed if they ever fix the dizzy on full auto area 2 that is why I am not worried too much with full auto area 2 changing, besides the description of full auto area 2 doesn't mention that the skill dizzy/blind your opponent so the developers could just decide to remove the dizzy totally from that special and there is nothing we could say about it( and that would be the fix I would do if I was them and was getting 100 posts a day complaining about a skill having some extra capabilities not working, just remove those capabilities...).