Carbineer Archive
Thread: TAFirehawk : Just a request for info as you get it on the defenses issue
If the Chefs are correct, and from my own testing today I think they are, then I will want to know if this is in fact a bug or working as intended. We have the lowest Ranged Defense mod of any of the ranged professions, and that is of course a concern. Knowing that Rifleman not only have better range, higher damage weapons, AND better overall defenses, would be a bit of a sore spot for me as a carbineer. I dont want to see Rifleman get nerfed, but this would have to be addressed somehow if it is indeed working as intended.
As it stands, carbineers have the worst defenses of all the ranged professions, with rifles having the best. It was my understanding after the CU, that Pistols would get the best defenses, followed by Carbines, and then Rifles would have the lowest overall defenses. To balance that, rifles got the best range and damage, while pistols got the lowest range and damage. Carbines was inbetween. Now finding out that the system is not working that way is a bit of a blow to us, as well as the pistoleers.
All I am asking for is updates on this issue as you receive them.
Thanks!
Just to be clear, lets list the Defenses for each prof at the solo master level....
Pistoleer - Melee Defense = 130 and Ranged Defense = 135
Carbineer - Melee Defense = 100 and Ranged Defense = 115
Rifleman - Melee Defense = 65 and Ranged Defense = 130
Marksman - Melee Defense = 10 and Ranged Defense = 30
BH - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 120
Commando - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 70
Smuggler - Melee Defense = 70 and Ranged Defense = 65 ***while using a Pistol***
SL - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 120 ***using group defense mods***
CM - Melee Defense = 60 and Ranged Defense = 75
Doc - Melee Defense = 50 and Ranged Defense = 50
Chef - Melee Defense = 0 and Ranged Defense = 0 
Melee Defense looks right but Ranged Defense is off just a bit....but really, what is +15 Ranged Defense going to do in PvE and PvP....next to nothing IMO. There are a lot bigger fish to fry....like the bug on mod weapon speed
The Chef correspondent isnt addressing a Carbineer issue, he is asking about the melee and ranged defense foods. For a long time, there was a lot of discussion about whether these foods worked. Some people claimed that they did, others claimed that they did not. Yesterday, one of the members of the Chef community finally posted test results that showed that both foods did in fact WORK, but that the ranged and melee defense system did NOT work the way that we had thought.
Basically, as a ranged profession, ranged defense is all that matters. Melee defense SEAs, clothes, and food are worthless to us unless we are wielding a melee weapon or unarmed.
Since carbineers have the lowest ranged defenses of any of the ranged professions, this is a bit of a concern.
TAfirehawk wrote:
Just to be clear, lets list the Defenses for each prof at the solo master level....
Pistoleer - Melee Defense = 130 and Ranged Defense = 135
Carbineer - Melee Defense = 100 and Ranged Defense = 115
Rifleman - Melee Defense = 65 and Ranged Defense = 130
Marksman - Melee Defense = 10 and Ranged Defense = 30
BH - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 120
Commando - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 70
Smuggler - Melee Defense = 70 and Ranged Defense = 65 ***while using a Pistol***
SL - Melee Defense = 95 and Ranged Defense = 120 ***using group defense mods***
CM - Melee Defense = 60 and Ranged Defense = 75
Doc - Melee Defense = 50 and Ranged Defense = 50
Chef - Melee Defense = 0 and Ranged Defense = 0
Melee Defense looks right but Ranged Defense is off just a bit....but really, what is +15 Ranged Defense going to do in PvE and PvP....next to nothing IMO. There are a lot bigger fish to fry....like the bug on mod weapon speed
BTW, why would the Chef Forum/Corr be addressing the range/melee defense issue of Carbineer?
TA this is huge, as it is right now your defense is tied to your weapon and not your melee or ranged defense. IF you are a carbineer holding a ranged weapon then your ranged defense is used for both incoming melee attacks and ranged attacks.
Right now for PvP if you are a ranged profession and you eat vegesparine it will do zero benefit for you since you are not using melee defense for anything. I hope this makes sense.
This is really really bad.
Haywood wrote:
This is really really bad.
Hmm, i wonder if this actually is a bug in the classical meaning... it somehow has it's kind of logic:
- carbine defence: improves defence when holding a carbine
- rifle defence: improves defence when holding a rifle
- pistol defence: improves defence when holding a pistol
- ranged defence: improves defence when holding a ranged weapon
- melee defence: improves defence when holding a melee weapon
If things would have been defined like this right from the start, this would have made perfect sense, all ranged professions give lowest defence without a weapon in hand, give a bit more defence with any ranged weapon in hand and give best defence with the correct weapon wielded.
[Anyways, there are two professions where this doesn't work out. the Smuggler ends up with 5 less in ranged defence than in melee defence, due to having novice brawler. More significally you see the difference on the Commando, though, 95 melee defence vs. 70 ranged defence sure might be one of the reasons why commandos are currently worse than they "look on paper".]
The "problem" here is, this is not according to how the system formerly was. Ranged defence was not "Defence when holding a ranged weapon" but "Defence vs. a ranged attack".
From the given reports, it seems like this old logic was overriden in the CU, without telling us about it. Would it have been communicated, it sure would have been subject to quite some discussion, some modifiers in smuggler and commando would have required some finetuning, and things would have been more or less allright.
So, as a conclusion, this is not a "bug" in the classical meaning of coding, it's rather a display of some serious lack of communication and some missunderstanding within the Dev team. The prefered solutions of the playerbase probably is to change the system to the "Defence vs. ranged" and "Defence vs. melee" system again. If this is too hard to do, the Devs might be well advised to openly communicate the issue to the players (no matter how bad it hurts...) and perhaps finetune the problematic professions a bit. (It's only Smuggler and Commando who could use a small down on melee and a nice up on ranged defence, to make sense in the current setup.)
TAfirehawk wrote:
Just to be clear, lets list the Defenses for each prof at the solo master level....
Carbineer - Melee Defense = 100 and Ranged Defense = 115
Chef - Melee Defense = 0 and Ranged Defense = 0
Melee Defense looks right but Ranged Defense is off just a bit....but really, what is +15 Ranged Defense going to do in PvE and PvP....next to nothing IMO. There are a lot bigger fish to fry....like the bug on mod weapon speed
BTW, why would the Chef Forum/Corr be addressing the range/melee defense issue of Carbineer?
As some have stated here, Elshandruu Pica Thundercloudis a- Drink Effect: +98 Ranged Defence Duration: 18m36s Fill: 16 (stats can vary)
IMHO its better than Vegsparine as the filling is lower. So we Carbineers should be happy!
I think what people are realizing is that if its Melee defence or Ranged, it is dependant on the type of weapon that the DEFENDER is using not the ATTACKER. So that would mean that Melee defence is useless for a carbineer unless they equip a melee weapon. Our ranged defence #, whatever that may be is the number that affects ALL attacks.
Bliz
P.S. Are you sure Chefs don't get any defence? Idemand a recount!! Chef should get some Melee Defence, gotta fight off al those drunk patrons 
If the patrons fight, the drink was not strong enough.
P.S. Are you sure Chefs don't get any defence? Idemand a recount!! Chef should get some Melee Defence, gotta fight off al those drunk patrons
Bliznit wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Just to be clear, lets list the Defenses for each prof at the solo master level....
Carbineer - Melee Defense = 100 and Ranged Defense = 115
Chef - Melee Defense = 0 and Ranged Defense = 0Melee Defense looks right but Ranged Defense is off just a bit....but really, what is +15 Ranged Defense going to do in PvE and PvP....next to nothing IMO. There are a lot bigger fish to fry....like the bug on mod weapon speed
BTW, why would the Chef Forum/Corr be addressing the range/melee defense issue of Carbineer?As some have stated here, Elshandruu Pica Thundercloudis a- Drink Effect: +98 Ranged Defence Duration: 18m36s Fill: 16 (stats can vary)
IMHO its better than Vegsparine as the filling is lower. So we Carbineers should be happy!
I think what people are realizing is that if its Melee defence or Ranged, it is dependant on the type of weapon that the DEFENDER is using not the ATTACKER. So that would mean that Melee defence is useless for a carbineer unless they equip a melee weapon. Our ranged defence #, whatever that may be is the number that affects ALL attacks.
Bliz
P.S. Are you sure Chefs don't get any defence? Idemand a recount!! Chef should get some Melee Defence, gotta fight off al those drunk patrons
You are right, the sky is not falling. I am just not happy that Rifleman get better defenses than we do. I didnt sign up for that. LOL.
/agree
the defences should be pistoleer > carbineer > rifleman acording to how close to the frontline they are
Haywood wrote:
TheSillyOne wrote:
Pica thundercloud is ranged defense I believe. Seems like a good thing to only have to worry about one number. My overall defense while holding a ranged weapon is reflected by my "ranged defense" mod the same way my accuracy is affected by the weapon i carry. That makes sense to me. There are foods that effect both kinds of defense so it doesn't really seem inballanced.Can someone enlighten me as to how this is bad? It seems to me it's just different.
It is not so bad for me since I have more ranged defense than melee. But Imagine if you are a player with a ton of melee defense and no ranged defense. If you have a ranged weapon in your hand you would be using you ranged defense only.
Heh, I know you're just trying to make a point, but honestly, how many ranged templates do you know that have a lot of melee defense and no ranged defense?