Carbineer Archive
Thread: TAFirehawk : Just a request for info as you get it on the defenses issue
Sylow wrote:
Hmm, i wonder if this actually is a bug in the classical meaning... it somehow has it's kind of logic:
- carbine defence: improves defence when holding a carbine
- rifle defence: improves defence when holding a rifle
- pistol defence: improves defence when holding a pistol
- ranged defence: improves defence when holding a ranged weapon
- melee defence: improves defence when holding a melee weapon
If things would have been defined like this right from the start, this would have made perfect sense, all ranged professions give lowest defence without a weapon in hand, give a bit more defence with any ranged weapon in hand and give best defence with the correct weapon wielded.
[Anyways, there are two professions where this doesn't work out. the Smuggler ends up with 5 less in ranged defence than in melee defence, due to having novice brawler. More significally you see the difference on the Commando, though, 95 melee defence vs. 70 ranged defence sure might be one of the reasons why commandos are currently worse than they "look on paper".]
The "problem" here is, this is not according to how the system formerly was. Ranged defence was not "Defence when holding a ranged weapon" but "Defence vs. a ranged attack".
From the given reports, it seems like this old logic was overriden in the CU, without telling us about it. Would it have been communicated, it sure would have been subject to quite some discussion, some modifiers in smuggler and commando would have required some finetuning, and things would have been more or less allright.
So, as a conclusion, this is not a "bug" in the classical meaning of coding, it's rather a display of some serious lack of communication and some missunderstanding within the Dev team. The prefered solutions of the playerbase probably is to change the system to the "Defence vs. ranged" and "Defence vs. melee" system again. If this is too hard to do, the Devs might be well advised to openly communicate the issue to the players (no matter how bad it hurts...) and perhaps finetune the problematic professions a bit. (It's only Smuggler and Commando who could use a small down on melee and a nice up on ranged defence, to make sense in the current setup.)
the problem here is, as TH stated... we get a bunch of melee defense as a carbineer... all +100 or so of this defense is completly worthless to us since we use a ranged weapon. it might as well be polearm speed or armor assembly.... it would be just as useful to us under this "system"
TheSillyOne wrote:
Pica thundercloud is ranged defense I believe. Seems like a good thing to only have to worry about one number. My overall defense while holding a ranged weapon is reflected by my "ranged defense" mod the same way my accuracy is affected by the weapon i carry. That makes sense to me. There are foods that effect both kinds of defense so it doesn't really seem inballanced.
Can someone enlighten me as to how this is bad? It seems to me it's just different.
It is not so bad for me since I have more ranged defense than melee. But Imagine if you are a player with a ton of melee defense and no ranged defense. If you have a ranged weapon in your hand you would be using you ranged defense only.
All the evidence in the game points to it being a bug...
1. The description of melee defense in-game reads "This mod improves your defenseagainst melee attacks."
2. The description of ranged defense in-game reads "This mod makes you hard to hit with ranged weapons."
3. The in-game description of Vegeparsine refers to it helping you defend against melee attacks.
4. The in-game description of Elshandruu Pica Thundercload refers to it helping you predict your opponent's aim, which seems to imply that it has to do with countering attacks from ranged weapons.
5. The character sheet in game lists a total melee and ranged defense for your character, and it gets this number by adding your weapon defense to melee and ranged Defense respectively, i.e., it adds Melee Defense and Carbine Defense together, which would make no sense if things are working as intended.
6. Tons of melee defense is scattered amoungst the skillboxes of ranged proffessions, and vice-versa for the melee profs.
7. Jedi Defenders have a whole branch dedicated to ranged defense, which makes no sense since a full template Jedi would almost never use a ranged weapon, plus the devs have even talked about chancing it so that Jedi can't even use force specials without a lightsabre equipped.
I think all of the above make it clear that the way things are working now is a bug, and not what was intended. If the devs say otherwise its either because they are confused, or because they are too lazy to fix it and don't want to admit they messed up.