Carbineer Archive
Thread: Potential Top 5
Brilyn
Thu Aug 26, 2004 11:17 am
#53
< But that aside.....if soemthing has vulnerability with no resist, it counts as Ar0.....if soemthing has no resist and is unarmored (liek a player) they count as having AR0 as well.......so really either way you look at it...its the SAME thing. >
No, you're incorrect.
If something has Vuln to an attack, both AP and AR are disregarded.
Stop talking, go test it, and get screen shots.
You do that, I'll do the same, and we can compare.
Go find an NPC with AR0, but a resistance to Kinetic or Blast and hit them with the appropriate AP2 weapon.
Then go find someone with Vuln to Kinetic or Blast, and hit them with the appropriate AP2 weapon.
You will see, quite clearly, that you are dealing roughly 56% (misnus the resistance value) more damage to the person with AR0 and the resistance.
< But every swordsman weapon is AP2, and i think its safe to assume that after playing as an MSM for 6 months i migth have soem clue as to what im talking about. >
Given the amount of people I regularly need to explain how AP vs AR works ingame to, I'm not about to make any assumptions, thank you.
I'd rather *test* the system, and draw conclusions from the facts.
If you are prepared to test this, or arrange someone to test this on your end, I'll happily do the same on my end.
NeoEcks
Fri Aug 27, 2004 12:21 am
#54
This is a GREAT list!!
Many have chimed in that the HAM is not that big of an issue with buffs…and it is not…with buffs.
I would VERY much like for the HAM costs to fall in line with the other ranged professions WITHOUT buffs. I enjoy playing the game without buffs, using tactics, strategy, and the strengths of my professions. I am NOT asking to be able to spam specials without Doc buffs. Heck, I don’t think ANY profession should be able to spam specials even WITH Doc buffs, but that having been said, the HAM cost of carbine specials can be downright silly.
The old carbineer motto “bet I can kill me before you can kill me” still holds true through today.
Personally I would not change anything on the list. It looks great as is.
Bermag
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:07 am
#55
Is this for combat revamp or the pre-combat "correspondant issues"? If it is for combat revamp then some may be obsolete like speed since that will probably be changed completly.
I think the order should be 5, 2, 3, 4, 1 (people to tend to prioritize which is mentioned first).
I think the lack being able to stick states on high level targets (including PvP) is one of the worst problems.
I am not sure that I agree that stun is not that valuable. Most good pvp:er I have talked to think that stun is one of most important things to do, especilaly against defense stackers. But a bit better effects would not hurt. I also think that stun should really slow down the attack rate (which it does not do AFAIK). Let it increase reload speed 50% or so. So if the eneymy first at 1.0 speed it should be 1.5 seconds.
Stun is pretty efficient. I think it make a big difference. Not so sure about blind though.
Also rifleman have both stun and dizzy which are the 2 most useful state effects besides intimidate and KD so Carbineer will still have no advantage over rifleman and just be lower damage version (however we do have KD).
I think devs should add skill modifiers for state effects (like for Warcry/intimidate). This could be different for different professions. So even if both Rifleman and Carbineer have stun maybe the stun modifer should be higher for carbineer= higher probability to make it stick.
Also different speciasl should maybe have different modifiers (they might have already), Wildshot should have a higher modifier than FAS2 for example (in some ways it has since WS onöy do stun while FAS can also do stun/dizzy/blind)
---
For the full combat revamp there are some poitns I think are important:
General rule - Everything should matter. HAM cost should be a factor to think about, speed on weapon shoudl always be important. In short everything that devs has put into game but had become unimportant should be made important.
1) No hard caps on speed. Don't cap for example rifleman at 3 sec for example. Instead make weapon speed always count. If you have a hard cap there will come a point where it no longer matters as long as you hit the cap. We should always had to make the choice speed or damage
2) Stick to the original rule Pistols - fast / low damage, Rifles -slow but high damage and Carbineers in the middle. Not as it is today Rifleman being the fastest (well as fast as any speed capped profession but it is easy to cap rifles) and the highest damage.
3) If damage output is lowered also revamp Creatures/NPC. Let them be dangerous but no 80% AR3 500k HAM monsters.
4) Rebalance armor - no 90% resists
5) Rebalance buffs - ham cost and encumbrance should matter.
f33d84ck
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:27 am
#56
I am not a huge name on any forums, but I do like to post a bit. I have a hard time seeing how a Rifleman with a T-21 "Street howitzer" can possibly be running around shooting someone in the head as fast as a pistoleer. If they balanced out speed, rifleman wouldnt be such a killer in pvp.
Rifleman should have the carbineer's speed - 60
Carbineer should have around 75 like Nova wrote
Pistoleer should be the fastest with 90.
The argument for BH pistols and carbines then comes in. Well, it is a large SP sink in having to go up BH. Not as much as it used to be, but it is still there. Those are skill points that could be used else where, like defenses or Doctor skills. Rifleman doesnt have to spend points in getting more accuracy or speed cause they are set right where they are. So, they can stack heavy defenses behind it.
Mitigation being removed would help a bit as well.
f33d84ck
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:22 am
#57
Hmm, good point. What about giving the Riflemen 74 speed. They can increase their points up to 99 but dont hit the speed cap so their weapon speeds will affect them more. It is only a thought. I dont know the speed modifiers for Rifles, and I am too new with Carbines to really have a strong working knowledge of it. Carbineer is my first ranged profession so I am still learning the ropes.
I will do a little more research in the future.
TAfirehawk
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:25 am
#58
f33d84ck wrote:
Hmm, good point. What about giving the Riflemen 74 speed. They can increase their points up to 99 but dont hit the speed cap so their weapon speeds will affect them more. It is only a thought. I dont know the speed modifiers for Rifles, and I am too new with Carbines to really have a strong working knowledge of it. Carbineer is my first ranged profession so I am still learning the ropes.
I will do a little more research in the future.
You need to look at the FAQ and figure out what Speed Cap means.....all profs cap long before +100......
f33d84ck
Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:38 am
#59
Yes, I do realize that. I understand how the speed caps work and the speed formula, however I was a pikeman for ages.
The developers made this game so complex the combat revamp needs to be a complete overhaul. Really sad and if I stay in the game that long, I might find myself more mad at the state of the game. I will save a long thread with my opinion of jedi. /sigh
Nova I like what you wrote here.
Craxus
Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:52 am
#60
Is fixing HAm really necessary.
The reason I bring it up is everyone is buffed these days so the HAM is not a factor. During, and after Combat Revamp they are going to have to make adjustments to the HAM system and costs anyway.
I don't think we should waste any spot, let alone our number one spot on HAM reduction since this will probably happen any.
If they concede to give us one thing off the list and they take the first thing listed. The lower HAM cost will nto benefit us at all. All the same problems will exsist.
Its my opinion that the HAM cost reduction should be move off the list, and replace with our allAp1 carbinesbeing being bumped to AP2, and all AP0 carbines being bumped to AP1. This would help us a lot.
TAfirehawk
Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:55 am
#61
The point with bringing up HAM and Speed even though they are getting a total re-write is to make sure the scale just doesn't get dropped X% for everybody and then relatively speaking we are still screwed....
And honestly with our Specials fixed how many more things can we REALLY complain about.... 
Therascalking3
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:24 am
#62
isnt the point that we dont want to have anything left to complain about because we are fixed and balanced?
i think the speed and AP things are the big problem. I would love if i didnt have to be BH to get my carbines fast.
Craxus
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:30 am
#63
Speed is definitely an issue for normal carbineers. I don't have that issue as a MBH/MC, bu thonestly I can see it as a number one issue.
The reason I think thatwe should drop the HAM part out is that combat balnce will be some time next year.
If we get the speed, damage, and specials fixed we should not have an hard time getting the HAm reduction pushed through next year.
Im just saying lets fight that battle when we have to not now.
Rarool
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:33 am
#64
What confounds me... is that even being MBH and MCarbineer...
I barely do damage in pvp. It's so bad that my 700 + max laser carb bearly moves someones ham. That's with crippleshot against a melee (no ranged mit) opponent at 1 sec per shot.
I just want to move someone's ham... not even win.
I do not think more speed will help us in the least.
ESPECIALLY because I think were going to have our speed cap raised to 2 seconds.
Im completely confounded as to the majority of the "in the know" opinions...
I figure I must be doing something horribly wrong...
Im starting to believe it's fighting with a carbine...
I know that the buff/armor nerfs are supposed to help us...
However, if all professions are taking the same nerf/buff and we get no increase
in real DPS ...
won't that just mean we die faster???
lol anyway... someday I may get it... I really love carbines...
I guess what confuses me so bad... is I can't raise my accuracy... I can't raise my speed...
there are no in game mechanics that would allow this.
I look at my premium weapons and realize can fight someone for 5 minutes out of they're attack range with crippleshot at the speed cap and I do little to no DAMAGE to they're ham...
Somehow thou once the melee person catches me... 5 hits and clone????
I so wish that TA or Nova were on my server I'd pay you guys hard credits for a lesson...
Message Edited by Rarool on 08-27-2004 10:37 AM
TAfirehawk
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:42 am
#65
Come on over to Chilastra
Free lessons
But honestly I can't kill anybody else any faster than they can kill me (which is damn near never).....except nasty DOT's or Jedi.....