Carbineer Archive
Thread: The difference between Carbineers and carbine users:
Well, I think it is a given that HAM costs for carbines (BH or straight carbineer) are out of control. They can be covered up with buffs, yes.
I believe the original idea behind saying BH Carb / Carbineer and Doc / Carbineer do not need help is that these class combos mask the broken effectiveness of a ...say carbineer and droid engineer. 
The combos themselves no doubt have problems. IE, BH Carb / Carbineer combo is still going to have the HAM issue.
I like how time and time again people can agree carbine HAM costs are a problem. DEVs. Thunderheart. A lot of people on the forums. Friends on my server. Guildmates. What is the deal with you spice junkies and gluttons? Lowering HAM costs may have the effect of you spending less on your fix to get the job done. WHY IS THIS A BAD THING?!?!? I'm glad you ballers have credits to toss at a wall all day long. Some of us don't.
I can definately understand your point Ecaterina. However, 100k a month for me would be a struggle. 50k a month would be difficult.
As i have progressed through CM, my killing power has increased. PvE, I get the added benefit of DOTs from my poisons (and the hefty combat xp bonus). Im two boxes shy of master. Once i get higher in the counterattack line, I think i will be even better off. Not taking damage even once every 10 hits is great. That is less damage to heal.
So basically, in another week or so, I will have a decent earning potential again (downtime vs. cost, etc.). Food and spice will become more than just the occasional use for me. it may get quite regular.
even though they remove the 40k mission on dant, you can get 17k mission on lok on nym and pirate, they do not spawn more npc like the kunga mission, kill 4 npcs, you get 17k.
don't get me wrong, I'm for the carbineer getting fix, but not in ham as much as in speed and their special should work right. ham is so trivial at moment.
there goes half the reason i went doctor.
there goes half the reason i went doctor.
Well, not sure if I have stated it in this thread. I would REALLY like it if our specials were fixed across the board. It is really going to be hard to balance classes when almost every class has some sort of special broken. Put in combat changes before fixes and you will have to do more combat changes after the fixes.
And I think I get your sentiment about +SEAs. I'ld like to either see (no pun intended) the drop rate increased or have them made craftable. As a wookiee, I do not get armor. The closest thing I can get to armor (aside from a PSG) is highly socketed clothing chock full of SEAs. Well, I have an outfit with 23 sockets. I have not looted a SEA since beta. Whats more, the +carbine SEAs I spot for auction are usually nominal in bonus (every bit does help, though) and sell for a fair bit.
I will have to get more deliberate about my hunting. I have been trying to get my factional rank up for various reasons, but it may have to go on hold to see what i can do about getting some drops.
I would still like to see some drop in HAM. If we were to get a better boost in speed (I already seem pretty accurate) I would accept only a slight decrease in HAM.My view may alter as I rank up in carbineer some more. The counterattack linemay go a lot fartherin aiding me than I realize at this point. I guess it is all about what "they" offer up. I can only hope that "they" read the forum a fair bit and have a good idea of what the profession as a whole wants, and what would actually serve us well.
RoyceCattemara wrote:
No, he's right. If you're not a carbineer alone, then your views will be skewed and will not help us fix the shards of a profession we have. Of course, post here. But, when someone posts hard data and opinions of how bad a carbineer is w/o crutch professions, don't come into that post and say that the data is wrong or that you think carbineer rules.
Carbineer does rule with Doc buffs. Period. But so does Pistoleer, and Rifle, and any other combat class. The problem we find is that w/o these crutch professions we aren't left with nearly the stand-alone ability as other combat professions.
So, please stop disagreeing with us until you do it like us. I want to Master Carb, but I also want to Master Armorsmith. I made the choice. But, I want to be able to hold my own in a fight (group or solo). And I should be able to.
Carbineer /doctor is more powerfull than carbineer/pistoleer by a far shot....
AP2 when fighting composite users is a huge bonus ( and any carbineer/doctor that doesn't wear composite doesn't deserve to live anyway...). As is scatter shot 2 to mind damage buffed opponents....
I really rather have a Profession, that have 1 special that's 20 second refresh time, and does 30 multiplier of damage, cost 500 ham per shot, so I can buff myself with doctor buff/food and wear a lot skills enhancement tapes then run around, 1 shot every single krayt dragon I see with 0 ham cost and firing it at 1 second.
pistol=easier to master and less skill point need it, but it's no where near as good as carbineer with the right template, there isn't a pistol template that's anywhere as good as carbineer template nor is there one for rifleman or any of the melee profession.
The damage in this game is cap by what's the highest damage weapon, for that weapon category and the highest damage multiplier special and the speed modifier from profession.
Pistol highest one I seen is 500 damage krayt scatter with AP 1(not anymore consider scatter was nerfed).
Highest special is either stopping shot or last ditch, both are random ham pool like most of carbine special.
and pistol cap out on speed extremely early
Now we have our Laser carbine, Highest laser carbine 550 damage, AP 2, highest one I seen, I have some 134 tissue I didn't use, I'm sure I could a much higher one with it.
our Highest special is Crippling shot or scatter shot(for just total damage to multiple ham pool)
we don't max our speed with just carbineer speed modifier at all, unless you pick up BH at least till 3.
now, from what we have right now, carbineer look pretty bad consider it's slower and about the same damage except have 1 extra AP.
but Crippling shot's multiplier is higher than stopping or last ditch shot.
Now we know it's possible to raise carbine to max speed, with the mod from BH, so we make it both weapon firing at 1 second, and we know we can use food or doctor buff to lower both prof's ham cost to nothing at all.
now for damage, on an AR0 and AR1 critter, carbine does 25% more damages right off due to the extra AP 1, that's before we factored in the multiplier special and the extra damage on the weapons.
Now for Ar2 critter, the Carbine does a whooping 50% more damage, since pistol now suffer a 50% damage penalty with only AP 1.
and those are all before the damage multiplier was factored in and extra damage from the carbine.
oh yeah those 2 weapons I took were just example, because scatter/dx2/republican pistol only goes up to around 240 after a damage slice, normal non-krayt laser carbine goes up to 360 with a damage slice. if you compare 240 to 360, that's extra 120 damages. also pistol took a nerf due to fwg5 now can't use blaster handle that just totally destroy the Old smuggler/pistoleer with Fwg's extremely high damage krayt pistol. now they are force to use either scatter or dx2 which are higher in ham cost.
For people who were complaining about ham is too high, I hope it stay this way to balance out the profession, but I think we should push for a speed increase instead ham decrease.
and also for players who think holocron turn carbineer doesn't know anything, I would have you know, while some carabineers sit in cantina chatting and does nothing, other's actually out in the field testing out all the special and ham cost and speed and such, if you are a carbineer who isn't master yet, and someone who was told by holocron to mastered it did, there is something wrong there when you said we don't know anything about the profession.
Ecaterina wrote:
I really rather have a Profession, that have 1 special that's 20 second refresh time, and does 30 multiplier of damage, cost 500 ham per shot, so I can buff myself with doctor buff/food and wear a lot skills enhancement tapes then run around, 1 shot every single krayt dragon I see with 0 ham cost and firing it at 1 second.
pistol=easier to master and less skill point need it, but it's no where near as good as carbineer with the right template, there isn't a pistol template that's anywhere as good as carbineer template nor is there one for rifleman or any of the melee profession.
The damage in this game is cap by what's the highest damage weapon, for that weapon category and the highest damage multiplier special and the speed modifier from profession.
Pistol highest one I seen is 500 damage krayt scatter with AP 1(not anymore consider scatter was nerfed).
Highest special is either stopping shot or last ditch, both are random ham pool like most of carbine special.
and pistol cap out on speed extremely early
Now we have our Laser carbine, Highest laser carbine 550 damage, AP 2, highest one I seen, I have some 134 tissue I didn't use, I'm sure I could a much higher one with it.
our Highest special is Crippling shot or scatter shot(for just total damage to multiple ham pool)
we don't max our speed with just carbineer speed modifier at all, unless you pick up BH at least till 3.
now, from what we have right now, carbineer look pretty bad consider it's slower and about the same damage except have 1 extra AP.
but Crippling shot's multiplier is higher than stopping or last ditch shot.
Now we know it's possible to raise carbine to max speed, with the mod from BH, so we make it both weapon firing at 1 second, and we know we can use food or doctor buff to lower both prof's ham cost to nothing at all.
now for damage, on an AR0 and AR1 critter, carbine does 25% more damages right off due to the extra AP 1, that's before we factored in the multiplier special and the extra damage on the weapons.
Now for Ar2 critter, the Carbine does a whooping 50% more damage, since pistol now suffer a 50% damage penalty with only AP 1.
and those are all before the damage multiplier was factored in and extra damage from the carbine.
oh yeah those 2 weapons I took were just example, because scatter/dx2/republican pistol only goes up to around 240 after a damage slice, normal non-krayt laser carbine goes up to 360 with a damage slice. if you compare 240 to 360, that's extra 120 damages. also pistol took a nerf due to fwg5 now can't use blaster handle that just totally destroy the Old smuggler/pistoleer with Fwg's extremely high damage krayt pistol. now they are force to use either scatter or dx2 which are higher in ham cost.
For people who were complaining about ham is too high, I hope it stay this way to balance out the profession, but I think we should push for a speed increase instead ham decrease.
and also for players who think holocron turn carbineer doesn't know anything, I would have you know, while some carabineers sit in cantina chatting and does nothing, other's actually out in the field testing out all the special and ham cost and speed and such, if you are a carbineer who isn't master yet, and someone who was told by holocron to mastered it did, there is something wrong there when you said we don't know anything about the profession.
Ecaterina, understand that this thread is not about finding the ultimate template. It's about a Carbineer being as effective as a Pistoleer or Rifleman without the crutch classes, and the people who claim it isn't broken when it is.I think that you continue to misunderstand how much the HAM costs are a problem because you hold the BH carbine line. YOUR damage output is much different from a plain Carbineer's damage output, and they are not interchangeable. Changing the Carbineer class to be equal to the other ranged elites will be a problem, simply because it will call for a change to the other 2 elites to create balance. The comparable damage outputs that you claim will create a problemdon't seem to take into account the fact that you have an extra50points or so to your accuracy, as well as another 45 or so to your speed. Not to mention the fact that Pistoleers have ungodly dodge mods, and resistances to a lot of states. Also not to mention that as a BH, your states are not broken as are a pure Carbineer's. As a BH / Carbineer, your examples are applying to YOU, andnon-BHers just don't fit your mold. I have to HIT someone to damage them, and if they're dodging every other shot and firing every second back at me, there's a problem. If thatspectacular AP2 Laser Carbine hits in its lower end of damage, there's a problem. I keep seeing that thrown out there like it's the answer to all of our problems. That gun has the highest HAM costs of all of our guns, and again, has the low-end damage of a well built CDEF. Too much range inbetween the minimum and maximum for a lot of people's taste, but the only one with AP2. We need a speed increase as well as a HAM decrease, and I fail to see how people can continue to argue this HAM issue when the devs themselves have agreed that they are too high. DROP that BH carbine line Ecaterina, and bask in the new glory of uselessness.