Carbineer Archive

Thread: Speed or Damage?? What do you Prefer!!!?

nightwolf180
Sat Mar 20, 2004 12:02 pm
#27
Wanted to add that now that I mastered pistoleer, stopping shot now does about 1k-1.5k damage every 1.5 seconds while fan shot (my new favorite aoe and single target attack) does 700-1.2k damage every 1 second. Now that the speeds and damages are very close between these 2 specials, I use Fan Shot mostly because it has an area of effect and it costs half the HAM. If I really need a single target attack though, I use stopping shot.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You guys keep reading the post written by the long winded guy you think is an idiot.

The long winded idiot is going to play the game now. Enjoy.

Alex Kel'Jaro: Master Marksman Master Pistoleer Master Commando (working on it)
pentjaksilat
Sat Mar 20, 2004 10:31 pm
#28




jangofett10 wrote:

aight tx a lot, j/c whered u get the +89 carbine speed?





i said +89 b/c that's what you'd need to cap a damage sliced, non-stocked, non-krayt laser carbine...3.5spd carb needs +89 carbine speed mod to cap cripplingshot. since you said you're bh/carb...+89 isn't that hard to get to get since BHcarbIV adds +50...so if you're working toward MasterCARB/BHcarbIV, you'll have +110speed and have no worries on anything...if you do MasterCARB/BHcarbIII/Medic(novice), you'd have +100speed, and if you did Carb 4-x-x-x/BHcarbIV you'd have +90...so you should be covered as long as you make sure to get your 90 (or get 70-80 and add attachments).


even tho the last person correctly pointed out that speed slices increase the dps more than damge slices, that's assuming you don't cap your speed at 1sec/shot...to MAXIMIZE your power, always try to cap w/out the speed slice. this means to get a template like i mentioned above that gets sufficient speed, or get ALOT of speed attachments if possible. in which case, you'll be able to handle a damage slice and be much stronger than the player who just went for the speed slice.


personally...i've been bh/carb...it sucks, waste of skill points to pick up bh just to augment carb. invest credits/time/effort into speed attachments (as well as accuracy/accuracy.while.moving/counterattack if possible), and pick up either master doctor since we're so reliant on buffs, or 0440doc if you don't want the poison/disease healing & a little bit of pistoleer or riflemen for added defenses, or master a melee profession for a ton of defenses and the ability to switch to melee if you get into a close fight (or need to be able to take much more damage than carb can handle).

BH is just too much skillpoints for some extra speed/accuracy and worthless specials, now that carb's fixed bh has nothing on what carb can do w/ carbines. i know picking up master doctor or 0440doctor isn't any help in making a combat template...but really is a pain in the *ss trying to get buffed all the time--'least for me it is. cheers.


~pentjak



retired: 09/02/'04.
RIP Dunadan
...being perfected in a short time, he fulfilled long years; for his soul was pleasing to the Lord, therefore he took him quickly from the midst of wickedness...
pentjaksilat
Sun Mar 21, 2004 2:52 pm
#29




jangofett10 wrote:

I would look for skill tapes, but i have NO idea where to get the good ones lol. I know tihs is an off topic qstn to the post, and i looked IN EVERY PAGE of the game guide forum and found nothing.. where do u get ur skil tapes for carbineer?






90% of the high quality attachments come from one place...boggle bat cave on rori. think it's the last debris pile that spawns them most often. but i'd almost gaurantee that on every server it's camped 24/7. way too boring an ordeal for me, so i just keep an eye on the vendors that regularly stock from it...most prices are too high, but occasionally you can get a good buy.


~pentjak




retired: 09/02/'04.
RIP Dunadan
...being perfected in a short time, he fulfilled long years; for his soul was pleasing to the Lord, therefore he took him quickly from the midst of wickedness...
WufgarRuffian
Mon Mar 22, 2004 3:34 pm
#30
never understodd why this debate seems to rage on. with the way the quickbars work in this game I carry one of each. Usually start out appling effect with the spd carb then switch to the damage carb The math on spd vs dam slices that TA does is nice but does not take into effect the damage multiplier of the specials. with a spd carb I can lay down a hail of fire for 800-1200 dam(yes this is due to my server, flurry has total crap for carbs basic lazer 270 dam 2.7 spd or 360 dam 4.0 spd- elite 170 dam 3.6 spd) or I can wack em for 3500-4300 with the damage carb. Basicly I believe there is a place for each. Something truely gratifing in 1-2 shot-ing people compared to giving them the death of a thousand cuts with the spd carbs.



Wufgar
Elite forces Tanelorn Dantooine
Elite Forces

IGNPC: We often hear the loudest cries from a relative minority. Still, it seems odd that all the comments sent our way have been negative.
Haden Blackman: Yeah, all the guys who are happy with everything are playing the game. They aren't spending their time sending you guys letters or posting on the forums.
pentjaksilat
Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:35 pm
#31




WufgarRuffian wrote:
yes this is due to my server, flurry has total crap for carbs basic lazer 270 dam 2.7 spd or 360 dam 4.0 spd- elite 170 dam 3.6 spd) or I can wack em for 3500-4300 with the damage carb. Basicly I believe there is a place for each. Something truely gratifing in 1-2 shot-ing people compared to giving them the death of a thousand cuts with the spd carbs.





you need to shop somewhere else man, lasers have no problem on flurry...probably not on any server, the only specific metal is link-steel aluminum which is one of the best, if not the best non-copper for oq+cd. elite carbines require that polonium or whatever stuff that is pretty trashy due to capped stats, so any server is going to see pretty poor levels of that resource, but flurry has lately had some decent spawns...'bout as good as it gets at least. quality base stats for a laser carbine on flurry are 270 @3.5...w/ nice slice that's 360 @3.5 or 270 @2.3-2.4.

now you throw on a crafted stock and you got another +40/+40dmg and +.3spd, so your slices will yield415 @3.8 or 310 @ 2.5.

that's a far cry from the stats you listed...might wanna change who you're shopping w/, stats i went on were reldurpa's, b'ux should have comparable stats, as might 1 or 2 other smiths.

~pentjak



retired: 09/02/'04.
RIP Dunadan
...being perfected in a short time, he fulfilled long years; for his soul was pleasing to the Lord, therefore he took him quickly from the midst of wickedness...
TAfirehawk
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:43 am
#32




WufgarRuffian wrote:
never understodd why this debate seems to rage on. with the way the quickbars work in this game I carry one of each. Usually start out appling effect with the spd carb then switch to the damage carb The math on spd vs dam slices that TA does is nice but does not take into effect the damage multiplier of the specials. with a spd carb I can lay down a hail of fire for 800-1200 dam(yes this is due to my server, flurry has total crap for carbs basic lazer 270 dam 2.7 spd or 360 dam 4.0 spd- elite 170 dam 3.6 spd) or I can wack em for 3500-4300 with the damage carb. Basicly I believe there is a place for each. Something truely gratifing in 1-2 shot-ing people compared to giving them the death of a thousand cuts with the spd carbs.






Bull**edit**....


I would continue this "fight" but you have come unarmed to this battle of intelligence.....





Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

DarkNexus1014
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:26 pm
#33




TAfirehawk wrote:




WufgarRuffian wrote:
never understodd why this debate seems to rage on. with the way the quickbars work in this game I carry one of each. Usually start out appling effect with the spd carb then switch to the damage carb The math on spd vs dam slices that TA does is nice but does not take into effect the damage multiplier of the specials. with a spd carb I can lay down a hail of fire for 800-1200 dam(yes this is due to my server, flurry has total crap for carbs basic lazer 270 dam 2.7 spd or 360 dam 4.0 spd- elite 170 dam 3.6 spd) or I can wack em for 3500-4300 with the damage carb. Basicly I believe there is a place for each. Something truely gratifing in 1-2 shot-ing people compared to giving them the death of a thousand cuts with the spd carbs.






Bull**edit**....


I would continue this "fight" but you have come unarmed to this battle of intelligence.....








You think pretty highly of yourself lol


I agree with Wufgar. I recently gave up Carbineer as it is my trend to continue evolving (for fun lol, I almost always evolve to weaker professions, definitely NOT FOTM player here lol) and I'm going back to Commando because it was such a fun, and broken, profession


Anyways, on my Carbineer I kept a high damage, high accuracy mod Laser Carbine for melees (no ranged damage mitigation), a high damage, high accuracy um... the Acid Carbine, I cannot remember the name, DX-something... with a high minimum damage for people WITH ranged damage mitigation, and a carbine with a 150 or so health bleed on it to start fights with


BTW I was a BH Carbineer so I shot really really fast... WufGar states that TA doesn't take into account the damage multiplier on specials... but WufGar doesn't take into account the DELAY multiplier on specials either. I just happened to defend him because your a stupid head and you flame people




________________________________________________________________
Valdrox on Ahazi, Trandoshan and Aspiring Mercenary
Master Combat Medic Master Commando Carbineer 0-4-0-0

TAfirehawk
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:20 pm
#34

LOL


Flame away I shall..... /carbineerFlameSingle1



I am confident because the math behind the game mechanics is easily shown. Funny thing about the Special modifiers is, when doing the proper math, they cancel out of the equation and become irrelevant in the direct comparison of Speed vs. Damage. The discussion of the best Special is a seperate but good discussion as well, since most people go for CrippleShot even though FullAutoSingle2 is the highest DPS shot until you hit the speed cap. As an engineer that took extra courses in math, I love debating numbers because they are either black or white, right or wrong; 2 + 2 = 4 is always true no matter how emotional the arguement gets I used to believe the two slices were the same, until I was shown the math and sat down to prove it myself.


Your case of BH/Carbineer is the exceptiong to THE RULE, which I clearly state. Once the SPEED cap is hit, then further reducing speed is a waste of effort and Min/Max needs to be improved for increased DPS. And remember, I am not taking HAM into consideration as I stuck my foot in my mouth on that one once, and learned my lesson






Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

DarkNexus1014
Tue Mar 23, 2004 9:23 pm
#35




TAfirehawk wrote:

LOL


Flame away I shall..... /carbineerFlameSingle1



I am confident because the math behind the game mechanics is easily shown. Funny thing about the Special modifiers is, when doing the proper math, they cancel out of the equation and become irrelevant in the direct comparison of Speed vs. Damage. The discussion of the best Special is a seperate but good discussion as well, since most people go for CrippleShot even though FullAutoSingle2 is the highest DPS shot until you hit the speed cap. As an engineer that took extra courses in math, I love debating numbers because they are either black or white, right or wrong; 2 + 2 = 4 is always true no matter how emotional the arguement gets I used to believe the two slices were the same, until I was shown the math and sat down to prove it myself.


Your case of BH/Carbineer is the exceptiong to THE RULE, which I clearly state. Once the SPEED cap is hit, then further reducing speed is a waste of effort and Min/Max needs to be improved for increased DPS. And remember, I am not taking HAM into consideration as I stuck my foot in my mouth on that one once, and learned my lesson







Wow, you're not the jerk I thought you were. Sorry if it seemed like I was acting that way toward you lol, and since I am going Commando I am definitely choosing speed over damage... but Commando is a completely different beast than Carbineer, lol!


That being said, I checked that DPS calculator, and with JUST the mods from Carbineer (not the sweet sweet mods from BH) you only have +65 speed, that means that, without any skill tapes, you will need a carbine with 1.2 speed to hit the cap with all of your specials... YIPES!


Of course, Crippling Shot is definitely worth maxing out your mods for... it tears apart everything


Personally, once I dropped out of BH I was going to keep Carbineer for a while, I fired off a Crippling shot and decided at that moment to drop it... I figured if I was going to fire THAT slowly... I would be a Commando





________________________________________________________________
Valdrox on Ahazi, Trandoshan and Aspiring Mercenary
Master Combat Medic Master Commando Carbineer 0-4-0-0

TAfirehawk
Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:13 am
#36

Actually ANY profession has the same Speed vs. Damage comparison.


I was Master Commando for a bit and wish they had something besides the Flamethrower working.....


And you +65 Carbine Speed is with Master Marksman on top of Master Carbineer, so subtract 5. At Master Carbineer, the weapon speed is the firing rate for CrippleShot, so a 1.0 speed carbine is necessary to cap it. This is the reason I got +25 Carbine Speed attachments and 7 Krayt Carbines



NEVER GIVE UP CARBINEER, WE RULE!!!!!!






Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER

DarkNexus1014
Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:42 pm
#37




TAfirehawk wrote:

...This is the reason I got +25 Carbine Speed attachments and 7 Krayt Carbines ...




And a partridge in a pear tree... sorry I couldn't resist

And yes, Carbineer is VERY nice, but I felt it was a waste of my time to use it without BH... not to say that it isn't possible, it's just extremely unlikely for the average player to use Carbines effectively without having the BH carbine line too.


As for the any profession having the same speed vs. damage comparison... you DO realize that a master rifleman shoots his T21 as fast as a master pistoleer shoots his... whatever... or maybe faster if the pistoleer has a ridiculously slow (100.2) speed weapon. And yes, I understand that there aren't any 100.2 speed weapons, but I like gross exagerations because they are fun and people use them all the time in their"emperical" data so dammit you can let me have this one ok?



________________________________________________________________
Valdrox on Ahazi, Trandoshan and Aspiring Mercenary
Master Combat Medic Master Commando Carbineer 0-4-0-0

nudnick
Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:42 am
#38

ALLWAYS DAMAGE! when you get higher in the carb tree you dont need to worrie about the speed of it you will shoot so fast it dosent matter, go with damage son, you'll be better off




Ekono Vladix

Rebel Gunfighter Extroidinaire


pentjaksilat
Fri Mar 26, 2004 1:32 am
#39




nudnick wrote:

ALLWAYS DAMAGE! when you get higher in the carb tree you dont need to worrie about the speed of it you will shoot so fast it dosent matter, go with damage son, you'll be better off







wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong.


sorry, but you're giving a very wrong impression here by stating it so concretely...as already stated, your dps are going to increase more w/ a speed slice or speed/min powerup than w/ a comparable dmg slice or max/min powerup.


yes if you have krayt carbines or attachments or both you can get to the cap or close enough so that a dmg slice wins out...but it takes quite some doing w/ carbine's natural +60 at master...so "when you get higher in the carb tree you don't need to worry 'bout the speed" i have no idea where that's coming from...even at MASTER speed is a hot issue on how best to maximize your dps, much less progressing up to master.


it's one thing if you like dmg slices (as do i), but get your facts straight before you try to convince others.


~pentjak




retired: 09/02/'04.
RIP Dunadan
...being perfected in a short time, he fulfilled long years; for his soul was pleasing to the Lord, therefore he took him quickly from the midst of wickedness...
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