Carbineer Archive

My carbine is 3.9 speedand dmg with powerup is 144-544 i do 5 and 6k hits in pve alot and in pvp i do 600-1300 hits alot non stop.

i have a krayt FWG5 with a dmg slice that is 1.3, 83-344...beauty, eh? not the MOST l337 out there, but a real solid weapon, right? no armor piercing. dmg range vs anything with armor 1 and 0% res? roughly 61-250.

i have a pair of identical krayt scatters with speed slices that are 1.1, 115-271...they have ap, but the dmg range is more 'seemingly' pedestrian...the truth, though...against non-armored opponents, dmg range is more like 160-340.

in other words...they perform similarly against non-armored *or* armored opponents, if you are not factoring in special res.

i have a krayt elite carbine, 3.1, 133-289...outperforms either of the pistols i posted...

krayt laser...3.1, 49-389...ap 2...against armor 1, that's about...62-475...against armor 0? roughly 75-600...

the trick with looking at pistols is the ap factor. sure, scatters have ap 1...but so do e11s, elites, lasers, and dxr6. no pistol has ap2...you have to factor in that 25% per armor level to really see the big picture.

if i could use /torsoshot with a carbine, i don't know if i'd even bother picking up my scatters...and most of the time, it's more fun to use /fullautosingle2 or /confusionshot, anyways...

Kaffis said: "The 25% rule doesn't apply to pets, and I guess I just wasn't aware of how strong the DOT's were in the first place if the 25%applies in PvP -- the last time I fought a flamethrower, I recall my Doc buddy easily completely healed me 2 or 3 times over from the DOT alone (we were on Lok, and had to run a bit to find water). Good for that -- but does it ignore armor and resistances (like I mentioned it seems like they must)?"

How do you know it was only one dot? Dots stack. If they used flamestream/cone or the BH's torsoe shot on you the dots stack and the flame occurs all at once on a timer ovr and over.

If you're not near water? Treat it like disease or poison. Banzai the nearest big thing and let it kill you. I have to do it all the time. You avoid the wounds and have a chance at avoiding the faction point loss.

Of course if they make death any more annoying than it already is, then I;ll agree with you about the dot. I'd much rather have AP heavy on my flamethrower or HAR and reduced damage than the dot and the way things curently are.

But then again, if i had reduced damage and armor piercing with my group attacks and had no Dot I'd be a carbineer.

*shrug*

"Why do pistols do more dmg than carbines??"

cause devs ignore because we area smaller profession

ObsidianDawn...

my argument was *not* flawed. most of the BH i know are using Scatters, because FWG5s, despite being very powerful (mine is 83-344, and gets used only in PvE) DO NOT HAVE AP. on my server (tarquinas) everyone and their french poodle is running around wearing ADV Composite components, with at least a 60% avg res attached. AP is a very big deal. i have seen lots of pistoleers using FWG5s, but that is because they have no other options at the moment (DX2 ap still broken?), and because the market is saturated with them due to the fact that it only takes 1 krayt tissue to make them, and so many people assume that higher shown max damage = oobrl337 weapon.

as for why i would not use /eyeshot as a lead in?

demonstration:

toggle target 1, /knockdownfire /eyeshot (at this point, we can assume i'm taking fire from four people already--i have used 2 moves and hotkeyed a weapon swap)

toggle target 2 /eyeshot (take fire...lets assume the blind sticks, and that it actually means the victim has a 0% chance to hit me) take fire from 3 people

/toggle target 3 /eyeshot (take fire from two people)

/toggle target 4 /eyeshot (take fire from last person)

/toggle target 5 /eyeshot....

even as fast as my key setup is, i wouldn't make it long after /eyeshot on the 2nd target. even if we assume i'm using my FWG5 instead of my scatter, i am still chipping away *slightly* at my HAM with the moves, and i am being pummeled by five people from the start.

AND...all of this has been assuming my kd stuck, the dizzy stuck, and i got the first shot in.

if a BH rolled up you and five friends--and you are master commando, i have these assumptions to make:

1. he got the first shot, and it was a KD on *you*.

2. he was buffed.

3. no one used a knockdown on him.

4. either no one wore armor, or he used an FWG5 better than i have ever seen.

5. no one used pets.

that's not looking very good for your side. BH are susceptible--moreso, actually--to all of the same specials, states, and effects that everyone else are.

yes, /torsoshot applies a burn at 64m. the DoT is also half the flamer's DoT, and it doesn't stack on itself the way commando specials stack burns. ican't shoot someone with /torsoshot and then know that they are going to be black-barred and incap'd if i stop shooting at them. i am not saying the flamer is broken--i believe the job of the commando is to deal disgusting amounts of damage--i am saying that the /torsoshot DoT being applied at 64m is no more relevant than any other non-flamer DoT being applied at that range. the only time the DoT on /torsoshot really has a chance to come into play is when i have an opponent KD'd, or in running fights where terrain comes into play.

as for my qualifier about ppl not having elite professions, i did *not* say 'hybrid'. i meant...i could understand if the BH were facing a marksman, artisan, scout, medic, and entertainer...people who just opened the box two days before, didn't understand PvP, had no armor, and were using CDEF weapons.

i'm talking about reallity, not the world you live in where everyone is out to get you, Obsidian. the Krayt FWG5s aren't that big a deal, or i would go get an even better one. instead, i have actually *used* them and realized my scatter was more effective.

if anything, Pistoleers should be losing their minds right now since they have no viable AP choice.

for the record, Obsidian...to be successful in PvP, one does *not* have to be a BH.

Doctor/Carbineer *owns*. i have seen it time and time again. full suit ADV Composite, 3k health and action...and with the /eyeshot move to Master BH soon, they will have no chinks in their armor, so to speak. additionally, they are not penalized by the one weakness of the Carbineer--ham costs. they can spam specials all day...(again, i believe this to be balanced. they spent their points wisely)

i have a friend who is Flame 4, Master CH, Nov Medic--using stimpack B's made by master doctor. *very* successful.

Master Combat Medic + Pistoleer or Carbineer.

Master Pistoleer/Master TKA/Master Smuggler

Master Smuggler/Master Pistoleer/Medic

ready to have a nightmare? this one works: Flame 4, Dirty Fighting 4, Master Pistoleer, plus 43 points worth of Medic...Krayt Launcher Pistol for /panicshot, /lowblow, /lastditch, /stoppingshot, /fanshot, etc...and after /panicshot /lowblow, they can pull flamer and roast your marshmallows at double damage.

Master Carbineer, 2 2 4 4 Doctor, 4 0 0 0 Scout. exactly 250 points...buffs, full armor, healing, terrain negotiation, access to an ap2 weapon, an ap1 with acid dmg, and the option to use Elite for more consistent dmg range...this is a sick template.

Master Commando, Master Carbineer, Nov Medic + First aid 1...1 point left over. /chargeshot1, /chargeshot1, pull flamer, /roastvictim. this isn't a radical idea..i've *seen* it.

Master CH plus Master Pistoleer or CH.

how about even Master Carbineer, Master TKA, rest in Medic? TKA doesn't have problem getting close when he has a ranged KD to cut the space down...

jesus, i could go on for hours...

here's another one, and one i find particularly disturbing.

saw a Master Doctor the other day, wearing full adv Composite armor...with two graul Maulers out. yes...Master Doctor, Master CH. who needs a gun to win in PvP? pull a lvl 40 Merek variant, and a Plains Hunter (for the old school CH who have them still), use 3 GSPs...etc...

odd that i don't have a difficult time finding templates that don't include BH and work in PvP, eh? probably because i picked my profession because i liked the concept of the BH--i *enjoy* doing BH missions--and not because i wanted a template that would automatically own in PvP. the offensive perks are nice, and i *do* enjoy PvP, but there are a lot of other options that do just as well--if not three times as well--in PvP.

"if a BH rolled up you and five friends--and you are master commando, i have these assumptions to make:"

Again, your assumptions are based strictly on game mechanics and not on 'reality' a word you enjoy touting about as if your game mechanics based description of the sequence of events were somehow correct.

You neglect location: Coronet, Starsider

Easily one of the most populous cities on the Galaxy and possibly all galaxies.

Near the rebel terminals by the cantina. Hmmmm why should that have an effect?

Time: About 8 pm CST on a Friday night.

So there were roughly 30-40 people in the cantina and the city itself was chock full of bystanders.

What does all this mean? Lag.

I'm connecting at 350 k/s to Starsider from Texas and even I was lagging a bit.

There was an Imperial attack going on, FATAL was at it yet again. A -single- bounty hunter gunned down two people in front ofme and DBed them then ran for one of the building corners beyond the cantina. I overted as four others came from the cantina at the overt BH.

I ran for the BH and could not get in range for any of my special moves. Two people in front of me were dizzy dropped. Then I was dizzy dropped. Rinse and repeat for the last two.

With a combo of dizzy and KD and the lag -nobody- got up and our freind the BH merrily killed everyone as they lay there.

So again, you come to me with a rules-lawyer stretch of vellum and intense game mechanic calculations and tout them as 'reality' and try to disprove something that ACTUALLY OCCURED by burying it in verbiage.

The BH dropped five people. Seven if you coun the ones before I went overt. No telling how many others after we five died.

And ya know what? It happens ALL the time.

So keep telling us all how the game mechanics make it impossible for BHs to tear us a new one. I'm sure as PVP continues you and your steady flow of propeganda will be ignored more and more as people get sick of being dizzy dropped and eyeshotted to death by Bounty Hunters.

Case in point, I have to farm out to rifle and carbine to get the dizzy drop combo. The BH is working with massive bonuses to speed on the carbine and the pistol. I will still have to get very lucky to be able to dizzy drop a BH due to his massive speed mods.

EVEN if I went up TWO carbine trees I'd wind up with +30 carbine speed and +30 carbine accuracy

While going up a single BH tree nets me +50 carbine speed and +50 carbine accuracy

Lets look at pistoleer

Ihave to go up two tres to get a +24 pistol speed and +30 pistol accuracy

A single BH tree grants what? +50 to both.

Hmmmmmmmmm

So a single class is better at using the weapons of two elite classes and can do the fire dot -and- can choose which of al three pools to target -and- can dizzy drop

Oh no... that's not overpowered.

ObsidianDawn said:

"With a combo of dizzy and KD and the lag -nobody- got up and our freind the BH merrily killed everyone as they lay there...

Oh no... that's not overpowered. "

Well, as it was pointed out in an earlier post there are a lot of other PvP templates utilizing 200+ skill points that are just as good if not better then BH.

However, we can not take credit for lag .

Also, the only carbine I can shoot at 1 sec is my DH-17, my laser carbine at 3.1 secs does NOT allow me to shoot that fast.

I have had 790+ wounds from fire DOT before (thanks for buffs in keeping me alive), I wish Torso shot could even come close to aquarter of that.

It is interesting that a Commando, part of the PvP template of the month is complaining about another class being overpowered. Talk about the pot calling the kettle balck.

Pistols do more damage than carbines primarily because of the vast speed differences. For most people the marksman certification laser carbine is the best weapon they can find for average damage over time. The average laser carb has a speed of 3.7-3.9 seconds making it at least twice as slow as the average pistol. Unfortunately it doesn't also do at least twice as much damage, which means it's Damage per Second is lower. Combine that with the following; that the hardest hitting Carb shot (Crippleshot) has a very high delay modifier, the carbineer gets the least speed mods, and the HAM costs for the carbineer cause him to lose every 4th attack while he heals the damage he has done to himself. Having less attacks per second the carbineer also loses more time when he uses crowd control techniques such as warning shot, further reducing his DPS over the course of a fight. The longer the fight the more pronounced these effects become making the game less and less balanced as the carbineer approaches endgame. The one qualifier to this is the AP2 capability of the laser carb which is thoroughly overwhelmed by the other contributing factors. Keep in mind that even the Master Carbineer will never approach the speed cap with this weapon.

I'd Like to point out toObsidianDawnif hes still around that, If you read the Star wars extended universe books you will find that Bounty Hunters are NOT sneaky characters. most bounty hunters, such as Boba Fett, Bossk and IG-44 take their targets head on, along with all their body guards. BobaFett once took down a Rebel Unarmed Master without even trying hard, and without any of his armour and withpout using any weapons. Can a Bounty hunter take on a TKA in unarmed? Hell no (and I'm not saying they should be able to either!) I'm also notsaying that BH's should or shouldn't be changed, just pointing out that you can't say "they should follow the star wars universe!" because that, too, would be unfair.

ObsidianDawn, I know it was one DOT (well, actually two) because I killed him in under twenty seconds. He applied one DOT to my pet, and one DOT to me. I am told quite frequently that you commandoes can't do anything for 10 seconds after the special, so since I killed him in ~15 seconds, I can do nothing but assume that it was one each. But thanks for asking.

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DrekkJaxxe wrote:

I'd Like to point out toObsidianDawnif hes still around that, If you read the Star wars extended universe books you will find that Bounty Hunters are NOT sneaky characters. most bounty hunters, such as Boba Fett, Bossk and IG-44 take their targets head on, along with all their body guards. BobaFett once took down a Rebel Unarmed Master without even trying hard, and without any of his armour and withpout using any weapons. Can a Bounty hunter take on a TKA in unarmed? Hell no (and I'm not saying they should be able to either!) I'm also notsaying that BH's should or shouldn't be changed, just pointing out that you can't say "they should follow the star wars universe!" because that, too, would be unfair.

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To be honest, I see this way too much. People love to try to use Boba Fett, Han Solo, etc. as posterboys for their profession. When the reality is that these "heroes" of the original trilogy and EU stories are far beyond normal, and thus would, in this system, have all kinds of more skill points, extraordinary moves, etc. I have no doubt that Boba Fett was a master bounty hunter/master pistoleer/master TKA/master pilot. But you aren't. Likewise, Han Solo is easily a master smuggler/master pistoleer/master pilot/master marksmanwith some points in carbineer and scout. But Joe SWG smuggler isn't. The more mundane examples are the ones to compare to. Talon Karrde is what I think of when I think "master smuggler" in this game. Master bounty hunter deserves better than Greedo, but I doubt it should live up to anybody featured in the "Tales of the Bounty Hunters" -- all the folks who showed up on the bridge of the Executor were far beyond the bounds of this skill system.

Sorry Kaffis, I think you misread my post...I was replying toObsidianDawn lwhos said something along the lines of BHs should be sneaky like they are in the movie

Quote: "BH is designed to be a sneaky hunt down and kill from suprise class in the Star Wars Universe. It simply isn't"

, and I pointed out that A) that in the moviesamd booksBHs are very powerful and B) they must not make the game like the movie.

A side note though.... in the Bounty hunter trilogy a great percentage of bounty hunters were very powerful, some of them even able to give Boba Fett a run for his money...and these are only minor characters! I'm not saying we should be strong like them though! Please Dont mistake me for one of those guys who says my proffession should be as tough as X-character from the movie/book. youlll note I even said :

Quote: " Hell no (and I'm not saying they should be able to either!)"