Carbineer Archive
Thread: Combat Upgrade Carbineer Feedback OLD
TAfirehawk wrote:
Saratoga wrote:
What about the E 5 carbine that is currently slated under squad leader in a tree that requires pistol experinece? This might be a good point to argue to bring the weapon back over to carbineer. The iconic squad leader would carry a pistol anyway.
Has the point been argued that a master carbineer should be able to use any carbine in the game?
The point has been argued quite a lot in this forum, but I don't know how much feedback has gotten back to the Devs. Quite frankly for there to be BALANCE, other profs/hybrids must be cert'd for special/custom/unique weapons just like Carbineer is cert'd for Carbines but not Pistols, there must be distinction. We should be proud that a Carbine is important enough to go to other hybrid profs...we might see more Carbines in BH/Smuggler/SL/Commando/CM/etc because of the VALUE of Carbines, not because they are useless.
It would be a lot easier for us if they had just called them all Rifles or Pistols, then it would "look" like the Master Carbineer is cert'd for all Carbines, but in the end we have PROFESSIONS and not CLASSES like other MMORPG's so the rules can't be the same for BALANCE reasons. The other profs needed ranged weaponswho aren't specifically a Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Commando but within the limits of the code the weapon had to be given a category, so why make a new category of weapons for each hybrid?
On the same token, I feel if a hybrid gets certs for Carbines, then they better require Marksman Carbs.....the problem with that is requiring too many skill points for some hybrids so a level of compromise must be reached, which is nothing requires Master Marksman now to make the releative power of the hybrid equal to the skill points needed to get thay hybrid.
YUMMY, got to use colors
Tell me exactly how many new carbines do master carabineers get compared to every other damn profession in the game, I count 2 for BH, 1 for SL, and oh yeah one for carbs but only as an after thought because of the uproar of the carbineers when they saw they were getting shafted AGAIN!
Fine give other professions a carb or 2 but the best and coolest carbs should go to carbineers before non carbineers. They deserve the preverbal "bone" not Carbineers
Balance is not giving other professions better or equal carbs to the undisputed carbine specialists in the game..........
TAfirehawk wrote:
I thought the first thing I would provide is the basic Carbine Stats....all subject to change of course
Name Level Speed DPS
CDEF 12.25 22.67 Energy
DH17 6 2.25 26.22 Energy
DH17 Short 7 2.2542.22 Energy
E11 10 2.25 52.44 Energy
EE3 14 2.25 98.67 Energy
Laser 222.25137.78 Energy with Heat
Alliance Needler 302.25 164.00 Kinetic
Geonosian 30 2.25 164.00 Energy
DXR6 40 2.00 197.50 Energy
Bothan Bola 402.25 196.44 Energy
Slugthrower 50 2.25 245.78 Kinetic with Acid
Czerka Dart 50 2.25 229.33 Kinetic req. BH Carbs 4
E11 Mk. 2 54 2.25261.78 Energy req. MCarb
Elite 54 2.25 261.78 Energy
E5 54 2.25 261.78 Energy req. MSL
Proton 54 2.25 271.56 Energy with Cold req. MBH
Lookie there..............a fragging MASTER CARBINEER gets the FOURTH most powerful carbine in the game......................
Does that seem right you?
Sylow wrote:
Lookie there..............a fragging MASTER CARBINEER gets the FOURTH most powerful carbine in the game......................
Does that seem right you?
Can you tell me what's the difference between "261.78 Energy", "261.78 Energy" and "261.78 Energy"? In case that there's no difference, only the proton carbine is more powerful than Elite, E5 and E11 Mk2. So you can also say that carbineer gets the second most powerful carbine...
[Not that it'd make a big difference, your level defines how well you can fight, the weapon is more of decoration than a real factor in combat... but i just wanted to give you a hint about the numbers... ]
Message Edited by Sylow on 04-19-2005 04:58 PM
Thesethree concern me. I'm thinking weaponspeed is no longer relevant to the new system, and they put a randomizer in the conversion code. That's really something to worry about. Let's hope they're still testing this conversion system, along with all the other stuff that's been bugged or unbalanced with all the professions.
TAfirehawk wrote:
OK, I am posting a bunch of Carbine Conversion numbers for everybody
Old Stats CU Stats
E11
1.9 Speed 2.73 Speed
75/156 Min/Max 90/175 Min/Max
29/37/18 H/A/M 94 Special Cost
Slugthrower *Unsliced*
4.0 Speed 2.25 Speed
103/217 Min/Max352/654 Min/Max & 144 Acid
36/62/32 H/A/M 94 Special Cost
Slugthrower *Unsliced - 100% identical, never used as above, but different converted stats*
4.0 Speed 2.25 Speed
103/217 Min/Max329/631 Min/Max & 144 Acid
36/62/32 H/A/M 94 Special Cost
cleekjc wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Saratoga wrote:
What about the E 5 carbine that is currently slated under squad leader in a tree that requires pistol experinece? This might be a good point to argue to bring the weapon back over to carbineer. The iconic squad leader would carry a pistol anyway.
Has the point been argued that a master carbineer should be able to use any carbine in the game?
The point has been argued quite a lot in this forum, but I don't know how much feedback has gotten back to the Devs. Quite frankly for there to be BALANCE, other profs/hybrids must be cert'd for special/custom/unique weapons just like Carbineer is cert'd for Carbines but not Pistols, there must be distinction. We should be proud that a Carbine is important enough to go to other hybrid profs...we might see more Carbines in BH/Smuggler/SL/Commando/CM/etc because of the VALUE of Carbines, not because they are useless.
It would be a lot easier for us if they had just called them all Rifles or Pistols, then it would "look" like the Master Carbineer is cert'd for all Carbines, but in the end we have PROFESSIONS and not CLASSES like other MMORPG's so the rules can't be the same for BALANCE reasons. The other profs needed ranged weaponswho aren't specifically a Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Commando but within the limits of the code the weapon had to be given a category, so why make a new category of weapons for each hybrid?
On the same token, I feel if a hybrid gets certs for Carbines, then they better require Marksman Carbs.....the problem with that is requiring too many skill points for some hybrids so a level of compromise must be reached, which is nothing requires Master Marksman now to make the releative power of the hybrid equal to the skill points needed to get thay hybrid.
YUMMY, got to use colors
Quit trying to defend the Devs TA!
They make myopic and idiotic decisions (STILL!) and should be called on it, not defended............
Tell me exactly how many new carbines do master carabineers get compared to every other damn profession in the game, I count 2 for BH, 1 for SL, and oh yeah one for carbs but only as an after thought because of the uproar of the carbineers when they saw they were getting shafted AGAIN!
Fine give other professions a carb or 2 but the best and coolest carbs should go to carbineers before non carbineers. They deserve the preverbal "bone" not Carbineers
Balance is not giving other professions better or equal carbs to the undisputed carbine specialists in the game..........
Quit trying to justify carbineers getting the shaft................
You are quite offensive, but I will respond professionally anyways.
#1 I am just posting the facts and opinions that I have....and I have done more Dev bashing than any of you on this forum, so go read ALL my posts.....my total post count here is probably over 5000 by now 
#2 Almost all weapons are usable by all profs, this change happened a week ago, I suggest you keep up to date on the CU before bashing me or anybody else.
cleekjc wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Saratoga wrote:
What about the E 5 carbine that is currently slated under squad leader in a tree that requires pistol experinece? This might be a good point to argue to bring the weapon back over to carbineer. The iconic squad leader would carry a pistol anyway.
Has the point been argued that a master carbineer should be able to use any carbine in the game?
The point has been argued quite a lot in this forum, but I don't know how much feedback has gotten back to the Devs. Quite frankly for there to be BALANCE, other profs/hybrids must be cert'd for special/custom/unique weapons just like Carbineer is cert'd for Carbines but not Pistols, there must be distinction. We should be proud that a Carbine is important enough to go to other hybrid profs...we might see more Carbines in BH/Smuggler/SL/Commando/CM/etc because of the VALUE of Carbines, not because they are useless.
It would be a lot easier for us if they had just called them all Rifles or Pistols, then it would "look" like the Master Carbineer is cert'd for all Carbines, but in the end we have PROFESSIONS and not CLASSES like other MMORPG's so the rules can't be the same for BALANCE reasons. The other profs needed ranged weaponswho aren't specifically a Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Commando but within the limits of the code the weapon had to be given a category, so why make a new category of weapons for each hybrid?
On the same token, I feel if a hybrid gets certs for Carbines, then they better require Marksman Carbs.....the problem with that is requiring too many skill points for some hybrids so a level of compromise must be reached, which is nothing requires Master Marksman now to make the releative power of the hybrid equal to the skill points needed to get thay hybrid.
YUMMY, got to use colors
Quit trying to defend the Devs TA!
They make myopic and idiotic decisions (STILL!) and should be called on it, not defended............
Tell me exactly how many new carbines do master carabineers get compared to every other damn profession in the game, I count 2 for BH, 1 for SL, and oh yeah one for carbs but only as an after thought because of the uproar of the carbineers when they saw they were getting shafted AGAIN!
Fine give other professions a carb or 2 but the best and coolest carbs should go to carbineers before non carbineers. They deserve the preverbal "bone" not Carbineers
Balance is not giving other professions better or equal carbs to the undisputed carbine specialists in the game..........
Quit trying to justify carbineers getting the shaft................
lol, carbineers allready have a ton of weapons. more carbines are not needed. BH had pre-cu only TWO guns. Thats it. SL had ZERO guns! Thats why they got new guns and carbineers didn't. They needed weapons, carbineers didn't. The elite carbine, which is by far the coolest looking gun in the game, is now the best carbine. I'm much more happy with that, then getting a new gun. Its just a new grahpic in your hand. Its not that big of a deal. And even if we got new guns, i would just use the elite. that thing is awesome looking. And now its just plane awesome!
I don't see how giving new weapons to the classes that have little to no weapons, and not giving new weapons to classes that a bunch allready would be "shafting".
Carbineers are getting crowd control, and from my experiences in other mmo's, crowd control is UBER.
And the point was allready made, if they had called those rifles instead of carbines you wouldn't care. Your upset over what the gun is called. They needed new weapons, the weapons had to be called something. BH has a carbine line, they allready had a pistol and rifle, they needed a carbine for that carbine tree they have. And a carbine seems like the logical weapon that a squad leader would use, so they made a good choice.
You should be thrilled that carbines are no longer the red headed step child of pvp. You'll finnally be able to pvp vs people with medic! And crowd control is awesome. You got the shaft? Hardly.
cleekjc wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
I thought the first thing I would provide is the basic Carbine Stats....all subject to change of course
Name Level Speed DPS
CDEF 12.25 22.67 Energy
DH17 6 2.25 26.22 Energy
DH17 Short 7 2.2542.22 Energy
E11 10 2.25 52.44 Energy
EE3 14 2.25 98.67 Energy
Laser 222.25137.78 Energy with Heat
Alliance Needler 302.25 164.00 Kinetic
Geonosian 30 2.25 164.00 Energy
DXR6 40 2.00 197.50 Energy
Bothan Bola 402.25 196.44 Energy
Slugthrower 50 2.25 245.78 Kinetic with Acid
Czerka Dart 50 2.25 229.33 Kinetic req. BH Carbs 4
E11 Mk. 2 54 2.25261.78 Energy req. MCarb
Elite 54 2.25 261.78 Energy
E5 54 2.25 261.78 Energy req. MSL
Proton 54 2.25 271.56 Energy with Cold req. MBH
Lookie there..............a fragging MASTER CARBINEER gets the FOURTH most powerful carbine in the game......................
Does that seem right you?
Carbineers are not damage dealers. What would be wrong is if carbineers out damaged classes that were suppose tobe the damage dealers. Your crowd control. As long as its done right, your going to be the coolest in the game. Crowd control rocks. If you care so much about damage then go rifles or commando. Your the suppression fire remember? Other classes need better weapons so they can cause the damage, but your strength will be in your awesome specials(hopefully, if they are done right after testing is all done).
Shinku07 wrote:
cleekjc wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Saratoga wrote:What about the E 5 carbine that is currently slated under squad leader in a tree that requires pistol experinece? This might be a good point to argue to bring the weapon back over to carbineer. The iconic squad leader would carry a pistol anyway.Has the point been argued that a master carbineer should be able to use any carbine in the game?The point has been argued quite a lot in this forum, but I don't know how much feedback has gotten back to the Devs. Quite frankly for there to be BALANCE, other profs/hybrids must be cert'd for special/custom/unique weapons just like Carbineer is cert'd for Carbines but not Pistols, there must be distinction. We should be proud that a Carbine is important enough to go to other hybrid profs...we might see more Carbines in BH/Smuggler/SL/Commando/CM/etc because of the VALUE of Carbines, not because they are useless.
It would be a lot easier for us if they had just called them all Rifles or Pistols, then it would "look" like the Master Carbineer is cert'd for all Carbines, but in the end we have PROFESSIONS and not CLASSES like other MMORPG's so the rules can't be the same for BALANCE reasons. The other profs needed ranged weaponswho aren't specifically a Carbineer/Pistoleer/Rifleman/Commando but within the limits of the code the weapon had to be given a category, so why make a new category of weapons for each hybrid?
On the same token, I feel if a hybrid gets certs for Carbines, then they better require Marksman Carbs.....the problem with that is requiring too many skill points for some hybrids so a level of compromise must be reached, which is nothing requires Master Marksman now to make the releative power of the hybrid equal to the skill points needed to get thay hybrid.
YUMMY, got to use colors
Quit trying to defend the Devs TA!They make myopic and idiotic decisions (STILL!) and should be called on it, not defended............
Tell me exactly how many new carbines do master carabineers get compared to every other damn profession in the game, I count 2 for BH, 1 for SL, and oh yeah one for carbs but only as an after thought because of the uproar of the carbineers when they saw they were getting shafted AGAIN!
Fine give other professions a carb or 2 but the best and coolest carbs should go to carbineers before non carbineers. They deserve the preverbal "bone" not Carbineers
Balance is not giving other professions better or equal carbs to the undisputed carbine specialists in the game..........Quit trying to justify carbineers getting the shaft................lol, carbineers allready have a ton of weapons. more carbines are not needed. BH had pre-cu only TWO guns. Thats it. SL had ZERO guns! Thats why they got new guns and carbineers didn't. They needed weapons, carbineers didn't. The elite carbine, which is by far the coolest looking gun in the game, is now the best carbine. I'm much more happy with that, then getting a new gun. Its just a new grahpic in your hand. Its not that big of a deal. And even if we got new guns, i would just use the elite. that thing is awesome looking. And now its just plane awesome!
I don't see how giving new weapons to the classes that have little to no weapons, and not giving new weapons to classes that a bunch allready would be "shafting".
Carbineers are getting crowd control, and from my experiences in other mmo's, crowd control is UBER.
And the point was allready made, if they had called those rifles instead of carbines you wouldn't care. Your upset over what the gun is called. They needed new weapons, the weapons had to be called something. BH has a carbine line, they allready had a pistol and rifle, they needed a carbine for that carbine tree they have. And a carbine seems like the logical weapon that a squad leader would use, so they made a good choice.
You should be thrilled that carbines are no longer the red headed step child of pvp. You'll finnally be able to pvp vs people with medic! And crowd control is awesome. You got the shaft? Hardly.
Actually pre-CU BH's had the most weapons in the game because they required master marksman... you actually lost most of your weapons....
the conversions look ok other then the speed is messed up. the elites damage stats look nice... upper 900's... just gotta get a few more bugs worked out
Draxias wrote:
"Carbineers are not damage dealers. What would be wrong is if carbineers out damaged classes that were suppose
tobe the damage dealers. Your crowd control."
If you read CU documents you'll see carbineer is described as Damage 4 / Defense 1 / Crowd control 4, and rifleman is described as Damage 5 / Defense 1 / Crowd control 3.
So we are one of the profs with the second best damage output. We ARE supposed to deal a good amount of damage, that's why we are a little worried about it.
P.S. Sorry for the other post, something failed
Oh ya, i forgot about that. its been awhile since I looked at that. SL is supposed to be a "3" damage class. So actually I do find it odd that their carbine is as strong as the carbineers. I guess having no specials makes up for it?
well, here's hoping everything works out after the cu gets out of testing..... 6 months from now heh
I'm thrilled carbs get battle armor though. Since day one all I've wanted to do is run around in stormtrooper armor with an elite carbine killing rebels. I was pretty bummed out when I learned that stormtrooper armor was garbage and carbineers couldn't kill anyone that had medic. So i'm thrilled! Even if CU has its problems, at least i'll finnally get to do what I've allways wanted 