Carbineer Archive

Hmmm...color me skeptical...your numbers do not seem to add up but to give you the benefit of the doubt I will try to figure out how you could get such a super gun.

I have to start with that other elite, so you basically went from 190 to 430 damage?

So that means you had a krayt tissue that added 240 damage?

The best I have seen in krayt tissues on chilastra that has come through my gf's weaponsmith hands has been 59 damage with a .59 speed modifier. Even if your weaponsmith can make elite carbines at 250 max damage that is still 180 pts giving you 3 times better krayt than the best I have seen. Ok it could happen I suppose...

The problem is the speed that has got me stumped. You say the speed is a mere .2 better than your other "unsliced elite"? Hmm all krayt tissues I have seen have a speed modifier that is damage modifier / 100.

Eg. Damage modifier 30 krayt has a .3 speed modifier.

Based on you speed gain (2.2 to 2.0) I would say you could only get a 20 damage increase (100xspeed modifier) from the krayt. How then would yet get such isane damage? With a 420 base max damage elite? 2.2x 420 damage weapon?? If elite were that good people would not complain about them.

Maybe you could have had a 4.4 base speed elite to start with to match the 2.4 speed gain from the 240 damage krayt..but then how did your other non-krayt elite get its stats, slicing? Even a 35% slice only would take 1.54 off that and leave it at 2.8 and besides you said that other elite was not sliced. Hmm...

Hmmm maybe if we could have a high damage elite that was also really slow, ya that would work...Then we could have a high damage krayt tissue that would make the damage go up but result in approximately the same speed because the base weapon was slow...But wait...damage and speed are the same experimentation bar in weapon crafting. This means you cannot get a fast weapon with low damage or a high damage low speed weapon. As the damage increases the speed drops. So a high damage weapon has to be a fast weapon. Not that weaponsmiths would not like to be able to tweak the stats seperately, they just can't.

So assuming you had this uber magic krayt tissue giving you 240 damage that would mean you would have had a 2.4 speed modifier. That should have put your uber elite carbine at -.2 or at its min of 1.0. There is no way around that....the speed and the damage just aren't adding up.

Anyway that is all making my head hurt so lets assume you are telling us the truth and all the numbers add up,and I am not saying they do, and you had this 240+ krayt, why did you waste that on an elite carbine anyway? Elite only have light armor piercing. You should have added that krayt tissue at 240+ damage to a weapon like my 266 base max damage lasers I have(unsliced). That would take that laser to a whopping 506 damage with 2.4 (3.8-2.4=2.4) speed and medium armor piercing before slicing. Add to that the laser has a medium armor 2x modifier as opposed to the 1.5x modifer in the light ap elite. Plus a laser uses on 3 krayt tissues leaving you with the ability to make other weapons or sell them for cash.

So from here it looks like you are either a lying sob who is preying on peoples ignorance of how crafting works, or you are an idiot and you wasted some awesome krayts on a crap weapon, or you are smoking something that smells funny while playing SWG. Hmmm...

Anyway I have to go, no more time to spend on this, sorry if this post makes no sense at all to anyone, the original poster didn't make any sense either but he still got pages of oohs and aahhs over his post, maybe I will get one or two for mine...

not quite true with the krayt tissues.

Before patch (when serials were still on tissues) I got some +47 dmg / -0.531 speed tissues. So the max dam/100 = speed is not quite true.

Anyways still hoping for good polonium on starsider, well also waiting for some better ditanium steel (sorry if I misspelled one of those, hard to remember)

best krayt tissue as far as i know is +80 0.8

i'm pretty sure that his elite simply is sliced and with a PU

i won't bother using krayt tissue for a elite before good resources spawn for making it

I think somebody has already stated that the main reason for the poor stats of Elite Carbines so far is down to the quality of polonium iron thats been seen across the board so far. Up until now its been appearing every 6 -7 weeks for 1 cycle and diappearing again and its always had very poor Overall Quality and Conductivity, the 2 stats needed for the weapon.

However, recently a batch appeared across about 7 servers that has been vastly improved...with OQ above 900 and Cond almost as high. Oddly enough the resources on these servers all appeared at the same time which may point to a bug in the resource generation engine and/or tampering by the devs to actually put some good Polonium out there.

Given this situation I'm waiting to see what an Elite made with this might be like.

does anyone know of a place on valcyn to buy tissues?

Though Felton is a pistoleer, I have a carbineer on another server (Radiant even, natch). I couldn't help but notice this thread (for obvious reasons, as Felton is a master WS), so I decided to help you guys answer a few things about what *might* have gone into this carbine.

First off, a quick explanation of why the elite carbine sucks compared to the workhorse of most carbineers: the laser. As you can see from the cut-and-paste job from swgcraft.com two posts up (thanks, BTW, Johny) the elite uses ditanium steel and polonium iron as it's two main metals. Most firearm schematics only care about two qualities on the resources put into them: conductivity and overall quality. Now you can find ditanium steel with respectable numbers in these areas. On Tempest, for example, I have ditanium steel with 475 CD or thereabouts, to go along with 930 something OQ. The CD may sound low, but for a non-copper material, that's pretty good, take my word for it. The weak link in the elite is the polonium iron. Polonium iron, like the plumbum iron that goes into the E11, is crap. You can find it with good OQ, but rarely with CD over 150. This severely impacts the numbers on the completed weapon.

The laser, on the other hand, uses only link-steel aluminum plus any other metal. High quality, high conductivity link-steel is far more likely to spawn than good polonium iron, and you can rest assured that the "other metal" that goes into a laser carb is good quality copper.

So the simple reason that the elite carbine sucks is because SOE has dictated that it will. The schematic for the weapon is gated by the resources it requires, because the resources themselves are gated. When you watch resource spawns long enough, you learn that certain qualities on some materials will only fall within a certain range. In this case, SOE has gated the conductivity on polonium iron, which in turn gates the statistics on the elite carbine.

To answer one more question before moving on: the best krayt tissue I've seen was +117. This was a screenie. Someone I trust on Tempest acquired some +95 at one point, so they go up rather high if you get lucky. =)

With all of that said, this is the best elite carbine I've ever heard of. The ones I stock on Tempest are 104-182/3.5, using decent materials (but the best we've had ourselves). So while I have no trouble believing that the max damage on the carbine in question is as high as it is -- as it could have easily been radically modified upward with the krayt tissue -- I scratch my head over the minimum damage if the weapon is unsliced as the owner claims. Krayt tissue will only lower the speed and increase the max damage. Once a weapon has been created and fully experimented to max out damage, the only thing capable of raising the minimum damage is a powerup.

So let's assume that the WS in question used exceptional materials, and before any tissue was used, could have made a 120-200/3.5 elite carbine. I think that's probably realistic. Let us further assume that standard krayt tissue (+30 max damage/-0.3 speed) was crafted into the weapon to further enhance it. That would leave us with:

120-230/3.2

A perfect 35% damage slice would bring us to:

162-310/3.2

And a further +33% min dmg, +16% max dmg powerup would grant:

215-360/3.2

This is the only combination of events I can find that would produce an elite carbine with minimum damage numbers like that. But as you can see, the max damage and speed don't match up.

Now the max damage not matching you can chalk up to the weapon in question NOT being made with standard krayt tissue, but something better. Indeed, to achieve a max damage of 430, you have to start with no +30, but +75 krayt tissue. Inevitably, +75 krayt tissue would have more than the -0.3 speed granted by standard tissue. Probably more like -0.555 or -0.573. If we are to use this tissue, our base carbine, pre-slice and pre-powerup stands thus:

120-275/2.9

And with a perfect slice and the aforementioned +33% min dmg, +16% max dmg powerup:

215-430/2.9

So I am still at a loss to explain the damage numbers on this carbine. Even the HAM costs are puzzling. My elite carbines have the same HAM costs as my laser carbines, because my experimentation points go into raising the damage instead of lowering the HAMs. To have HAMs as low as those posted, the weaponsmith would have had to put a significant amount of points into lowering the HAM costs, and thus, the weapon would not have had max damage (and would not be the 120-200/3.5 carbine we assume it is prior to other modifications).

Most puzzling. Would it be asking to much to get the name of the WS who crafted this carbine, perhaps in a PM? I'm most curious to learn how it was made, as I cannot possibly see how you achieved those stats without a slice or the WS in question using some kind of exploit or bug to his advantage.

Resource List: (Compact | Full)

1. Requires 65 units of Ditanium Steel
2. Requires 25 units of Polonium Iron
3. Requires 12 units of Metal
4. Requires 4 identical Blaster Power-handler
5. Requires 1 Blaster-rifle Barrel
6. Requires 1 Weapon Scope (Optional)
7. Requires 1 Rifle Stock (Optional)

-this is for elite

Ok - btw I hit oncefor 4200 with my laser carabine with area shot 2 - I usually hit for 1000-2000 per monster - sometimes less sometimes more - plus you have like 25% more damage than what you'd hit for with an elite dew to the medium AP

My laser was made with the worst tissue(+30damage, -.3 speed)and sliced - I think 29% damage slice - right now it's 55-390 3.4 spd - I just love this rifle - when I use a power up I can kill 10k ham monster with 4-5 shots - if they all hit just right

BTW E11 requires :

Resource List: (Compact | Full)

1. Requires 40 units of Plumbum Iron
2. Requires 20 units of Ferrous Metal
3. Requires 9 units of Metal
4. Requires 1 Blaster Power-handler
5. Requires 1 Blaster-rifle Barrel
6. Requires 1 Weapon Scope (Optional)
7. Requires 1 Rifle Stock (Optional)

so you can make a real good one without needing 5 dragon tissues - all you need is 1

ah yes - I've heard this guy sell +120 tissue plus theposter said the carabine was sliced - anyway elite is not elite enough for me if its worse than laser

That was a great analysis and explanation of weaponscrafting, Felton. VERY eye-opening.

Thanks!

Corrado Sennet
Sergeant, Selous Scouts
Imperial Army - Tatooine

krayat e11 made by Aki on flurry

max dam 203 ham 12/36/18 spd 2.3/4(can't remebr got a frigging spd slice down to 1.6)

fairly bad ass gun for spamming specials with love it this is what I would like to see the elite do before slice/krayat

To clear up some confusion in the above posts, a krayt Elite would require 5 tissues since one is consumed making the factory schematic for the power handler. Without a schematic, you cannot get identical power handlers as required by the elite carbine schematic (see above).

My best Polonium Iron is 69 conductivity and 905 OQ. The best, non-krayt, non-sliced, non-powered-up Elite I have crafted is 3.5 spd, 102-177dam, 17.5%wound, 30/50/24 HAM.

BTW, I am a master weaponsmith, 0-3-0-1 carbineer on Scylla.

How exactly do you manage to do 400 damage to a target wearing full composite armor? For ease of calculations, lets say its only 50% resist. The AR of the elite is the same as the AR of composite, so theres no loss or gain there. After the 75% damage reduction for PvP, you'd have to hit for 1600 damage to get 400 damage to your target...before considering the armor's resists. Assuming you read the damage from your combat spam, the numbers up to this point are correct. If you claim to have read the floating number, then you must consider the target's armor.This would mean that your sliced Elite carbine can hit for at least3200 damage...without using any special attacks. You, my friend, put the commandos to shame. Crippling shot has at least a 4x damage multiplier, so you could theortically do 12,800 damage in one shot.

Either I misread your post, you misunderstood the facts in game, or you're making something up.

I have strong feelings as to which answer it is.

My Elite carbine, courtesy of Raiyne on Kettemoor, was a baseline 3.8 speed, 84-147 damage, and 18+% wound. Sliced (26%) for speed and with a 32.5%hair triggercoupler, the speed is now 1.9 seconds. No krayt tissue was used in the making of this weapon. Its not great, I have a Krayt DH17 that hits harder and faster, but the AP1 makes the difference when going up against armored targets. I do not remember the HAM, but Raiyne did focus the primary experimentation on reducing that as far as possible. I lose 113 Action on CripplingShot and 63 Action spamming ChargeShot1(thank gods I have 1000 Action and Health). BurstShot2 is about 75 or so. Resources on Kett are pure junk, so make of it what you will.